Hi All, While attending graduate orientation @ GWU, I had a conversation with one of my future classmates. She was an older woman, and an ex Navy Warrant Officer who now works for the state department. We got to talking about schools, and where we went. She mentioned she had a few co-workers that went to UOP, and that she was going to GWU because she felt she couldn't deal with the accelerated format. I told her that I worked for UOP and although it was free, I felt I would be better served with a graduate degree from GWU as well. We then began talking about non-traditional/online education, and I mentioned that I probably could have finished my second BS a little faster if I had gone to Charter Oak, Excelsior or Thomas Edision. She then said the HR department in the government looks at Excelsior as students "buying" their degrees, and resumes with that school on it get tossed in the circular file. Needless to say I was quite surprised, I myself believe them to be a quality institution and wish I knew they were around a couple years ago; and she insisted that was common in her agency. I am sure there are civil servants w/ degrees from Excelsior, and tried to make my point to her, she wouldn't hear it. I really didn't know how to defend the school being that this person had no idea what accreditation (be it regional or national) even meant, and she even said "it's one of those schools like Kennedy Western..." I was pretty apalled with that comment, and began to explain how KWU operates, and that it is no where near legitimate, nor should ever be compared to regionally accredited school. She then went on the rampage about UOP and the normal stuff I hear all the time (anyone who frequents this board knows what I am talking about so I won't repeat myself and others, as Rich says about Union, yes I am a grad, but also a critic). Now here is the best part, she tells me she has a degree in anthropology from Longwood U (my alma matter) and I about laughed in her face. All of my fraternity brothers where anthro majors, and they did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING while I slaved away in the library night after night reading the 20 books I had to have read by the next week...Now I am sure there are plenty of anthro majors that worked hard for their degrees, but I know for a fact that you can basically turn in all your work at the end of the semester and still make Dean's list there. Maybe things were different back when she went, but I seriously doubt it. That definitely proves that some departments make you work 2 times as hard to earn your degrees, I know I did. Either way, that's my rant, just figured I would share my first experience with GWU so far. Otherwise, orientation was great, and I am very excited/nervous about starting the MBA program, any one know any good websites that will help me brush up on statistics, let me know!
Myles, I don't know which HR department she was referencing but the only reason to toss any applicant because of a school is if the degree was required and did not meet the specific accreditation (ABA, ABET, etc...) Positive degree requirements are few in number in the government and it would be interesting to challenge her and have her cite a source or reference. Excluding any resume in this manner is not a common practice. The government that I work for does not categorically toss applications because folks receive their education non-traditionally. As for stats, start with the following: http://members.aol.com/johnp71/javastat.html http://www.calc101.com/webMathematica/derivatives.jsp http://www.mathsyear2000.org/alevel/pure/purtutpro.htm http://www.psychstat.smsu.edu/introbook/sbk00.htm http://directory.google.com/Top/Science/Math/Statistics/ Good luck with your MBA. Kevin
"She then said the HR department in the government looks at Excelsior as students 'buying' their degrees, and resumes with that school on it get tossed in the circular file." That's astonishing! Did you mention that Excelsior is (was?) a division of the New York State Department of Education?
She's clearly an idiot -- a kind of bigot, actually -- who doesn't know what the hell she's talking about and, worse, refuses to be told anything. First an email dialog should be established with her so she will put these statements in writing. Either that or she should be made to repeat them in front of two or three impeccable witnesses. Then someone with a degree from one of the big three should find out what department she works for and apply there. Then when nothing happens -- not even a rejection letter -- the applicant should sue and subpoena her as a witness... and then impeach her when she lies by calling the witnesses and/or introducing the emails (and authenticated server logs from her ISP to verify that she truly wrote them) as rebuttal. Then, before trial, the plaintiff should offer to settle for $1.00 in exchange for the defendant making sure that every hiring authority in the government understands what accreditation means; and what a diploma mill is and/or is not (and how to tell the difference); and that as long as the institution is accredited they certainly have the right to reject the application, of course, but not because the institution is a diploma mill. Just my opinion.
I just did a cursory look on google and found that these folks seem to have not found a problem with the utility of their Excelsior Degree: Seems popular with Army Sergeants Major and with college asst. coaching staff... Asst Baseball Coach - St Mary's of California - http://smcgaels.collegesports.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/zappin_gabe00.html another Asst Baseball Coach - St Mary's of California - http://smcgaels.collegesports.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/roberts_steve00.html Commander 1/87 TSD, Brig. General US Army Reserve -- http://www.usarc.army.mil/87thdiv/Bios/1bde_CG.htm Commander PERSUPPACT Atlantic -- US Navy -- http://www.psalant.navy.mil/BIOS/xosipes.htm Adjunct Computer Science and Head Soccer Coach - Corning Community College - http://www.caowl.com/bio.asp?ID=11 awesome (imho) painter -- Karen Mazzarella -- http://karenmazzarella.artspan.com/mbr_bio.php City Councilman (former?) -- Antioch Ca. -- http://www.smartvoter.org/2004/11/02/ca/cc/vote/simonsen_a/ Washington DC Attorney -- with a Georgetown JD cum laude after an Excelsior BS -- http://www.cooley.com/attorneys/bio.aspx?ID=34600003&print=true Assistant Professor of English - Newberry College - http://www.newberry.edu/humanresources/facultystaffdir_details.asp?ID=157 A US Congressman -- (honoris causa) -- http://www.house.gov/mcnulty/bio.html Command Master Chief USCG -- (magna cum laude) -- http://www.uscg.mil/hq/mcpocg/1cmc/biobowen.htm Command Sergeant Major 22 Sig Bde -- US Army -- http://www.22sigbde.army.mil/csmbio.htm another CSM -- http://www.bragg.army.mil/3-505/csm_bio.htm another CSM -- http://www.usarak.army.mil/pldc/bio.htm another CSM -- http://www.hood.army.mil/4id_204th_fsb/csmbio.htm another CSM -- http://www.hamilton.army.mil/commandgroup.html another CSM -- http://www.bamberg.army.mil/82nd/poc/csmbio.htm Excelsior is popular among Sergeants Major! Assistant Soccer Coach -- University of South Carolina -- http://uscsports.collegesports.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/molinary_bert00.html Assoc. Professor Counseling -- University of Buffalo -- http://www.gse.buffalo.edu/faculty/viewfaculty.asp?id=98 Assistant Professor of Mathematics -- Towson Univ. -- http://www.towson.edu/~egoode/ Professor of Applied Business Emeritus -- U Alaska Fairbanks -- http://www.uaf.edu/catalog/current/faculty_staff/m_emeriti.html VP and Client Service Manager, JPMorgan Chase Investor Services and Adjunct Business at Metropolitan College http://www.metropolitan.edu/businessunder/faculty.php Assoc. Professor of Clinical Science -- Sherman Chiropractic -- http://www.sherman.edu/edu/academics/fac_profiles.html Asst. Men's Soccer Coach -- Notre Dame -- http://www.notredamecollege.edu/athletics/soccerMens/coaches.html Asst. Softball Coach -- Northern Ill. Univ -- http://www3.niu.edu/athletics/softball/2005agate/09.13.04%20-%20Berg%20Hiring.htm
It can be a double standard--the army is heavily vested in distant education, but this is not the only venue available to soldiers. Many colleges have SOCAD agreements with the government, additionally, many posts have satelite campuses that are available to the military, and of course with e-army-u there is quite a few schools available online (not enough in my opinion, but it is a start), and lastly, every school I have had contact with or have contacted has accepted military tuition assistance and the GI Bill, so there are options for the soldiers out there, but they are still limited. What am I saying? Within the military community how and where you pursued your degree is of less importance than for our civilian counterparts, of course this is basically my point of view, but I do believe that civilians can be discriminated against when it comes to distance education compared to their military counterparts. As far as Excelsior and the governments view, I have to agree with Fed, the government only cares if your degree is legit, e.g. accredited by a recognized agency. Just my .02 cents which at present value means nothing, lol... William Parker
Hey aic712, Do you still know how to reach this woman? If so, why don't you invite her to this thread, ask her to register using any fake username she'd like (so that she can't be identified), then have her defend her position here? If she's right, then her position will withstand our interrogation and commentary, no?
Gregg, Just in case I am not around for the discussion take a look at: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode05/usc_sec_05_00004107----000-.html especially the following: "(4) to the greatest extent practicable, facilitate the use of online degree training." go here: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html search on 5cfr410 Regards, Kevin
Are you sure...has this hit a sensitive spot You just have to love people that have no idea what they are talking about
I don't know. She sounds as qualified to judge distance learning as a certain Coast Guard officer. I bet this warrant officer would make a excellant expert witness at a congressional hearing regarding diploma mills. Maybe she knows a disgruntled former employee that can back up her claims. [I'm just kidding, Mr. D]
I found the trash tossing part to be of particular interest. Resumes are one thing...applications are clearly another matter. Legally, an organization is required to keep all applications on file for a minimum of one year to confirm that they are working within the guidelines of the EEOC when doing their hiring. Very interesting, indeed...
Hi Gregg, Yes I do still know her and referred her here, hopefully she will read up on a few things and see the light. I was also interested in the "trash tossing" aspect due to the sensitive nature of EEOC among other things. Thanks for the links Kevin, and the examples Coach Turner, it's greatly appreciated. I have to agree, her statements are ignorant, but being that I work where I do, I am VERY used to people stating ignorant things about non-traditional and online education in general.
