During the pause I took a moment to do a bit of research and came up with another DL forum. The Open Online Education Network (OOEN) http://www.ooen.net/portal/home They have their own forum as well. Enjoy. Jack
Well, while "DI" was out I checked out that degreeinformation site. Jeez! What have you guys done to piss off that bunch. Wow, most of the posts I read were just pure bile about many of the regulars here. That's a shame. But then again, having an offshoot dicussion forum devoted to this one says something about it's value and stature in the distance world, eh? I don't think I'll go back there any time soon. Dan B
Re: Re: "While You Were Out" Everything they claim that has been done wrong to them here is standard practice there. Ad hominem attacks, degree mill shilling, invasions of privacy, banning accounts, you name it. The most recent thread John Bear started tells it all. And please note the number of posts there dedicated to this site and its posters. If you took those away, along with the posts defending degree mills, you woudn't have much left.
Re: Re: Re: "While You Were Out" Recently their member Socrate82 invoked the name of Pareto and stated that 80% of the posts on degreeinfo are made by 20% of the members. I made the assumption (pardon me) that if he was correct in this then it also meant the same for the degreeinformation forum. So, that means that at degreeinformation there really are just 16 members who are responsible for that forum. Just 16 people talking to themselves (mostly about what happens here). BTW, 20% of the degreeinfo membership would be over 1,400 members. Oh, and I'd like to clarify something for Socrate82. Pareto's "80/20 rule," which had nothing to do with the internet or communication, was first published in 1906. It was not "handed down over the centuries" as you wrote. Now, both Hayes and Socrate82 have embarrassed themselves. Lysias held out an olive branch (to her credit) and James ripped it from her hand and stepped on it. I'm done with that forum. There's nothing of value there. Jack
I went over there for a look and tried to find a PhD or EdD degree source that was economical and they only came up with "Rushmore" !!! Thanks but no thanks! There isn't anything there but some DL marketing of US schools that I wouldn't consider and some mindless posts. This forum is the standard that others can't seem to obtain. Morgan
Re: Re: Re: Re: "While You Were Out" Well actually (from their site availabe statistics, 10 members have made over 80%. Name.......................Post Jamesishere2..........521 Neil Hayes...............404 Dennis Ruhl.............314 Zon 7.......................312 Redlyne Racer..........186 Dr Marianus.............157 Henrik Fyrst.............148 John Bear.................114 George Brown..........100 adamsmith.................98 Sum........................2354 Total Post................2902 ..............................81.12%
Re: Re: Re: Re: "While You Were Out" Hi Jack Lysias is actually a man I believe (Dr Evans). There are points of view there of great value, notably Dennis, Peter, and Quinn. I miss their posts here and notice how being there has pushed them to extremes. I also noticed how any post of moderate belief is stomped on and the poster threatened with banishment. Quite a free speech site! LOL.
You're just now realizing this? Agreed! You hold them less accountable than is reasonable or appropriate. What do you expect from a forum whose creator couldn't think of any better statement of purpose and policy than this: This forum was created in order to allow people to post about their education from any legitimate source. It is not a place for DI to come and create a degreeinfo2. This forum is the place for the other points of view, not a continuation of "their" views. Anyone who wishes to stir the pot and play games will be sent packing. This forum is for the serious discussion of the "many" types of education, not RA or the highway. But the bigger problem is: Here we are talking about them again. In another thread, here, I wrote about that: I hate to see postings here -- no matter how inherently true they may be -- about the other, more troublesome fora. It gives them both more attention, and the mistaken appearance of more legitimacy, than they either have or deserve. And it makes us do here the very thing we chastise them for doing: Responding in their forum to things they read in ours... only in this case, now, it's us responding to stuff we read in theirs. I just hate to see that, no matter what. We can make no more effective or cogent commentary about their goings on than to simply ignore them. To spend any time -- any time at all -- countering here what they write over there (or on any of the other diploma-mill-operator-frequented fora) is a huge waste of time, makes them feel more purposeful and relevant than they have any right to feel, and gives them the satisfaction of getting us to devote our precious time to them and their silliness. They bait us to react. It's what they do. It's what all disenfranchised, disaffected, dysfunctional knuckleheads do. When we react -- as they've successfully baited us to do here -- they get to wonder if they're actually good at it. Reasonable people who have any horse sense at all will read their words about us, and then come here and read our actual words, and will be able to see in an instant that those others are just a bunch of miscreants. People who can't figure that out... well... they pretty much get what they deserve. We should find better things to do with our time. Or so it is my opinion.
Point taken Well said "We should find better things to do with our time. Or so it is my opinion." Point taken. I have to agree. Dan B
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "While You Were Out" I don't really care about whether Lysias is male or female or if he's Evans or not. I also don't care if Dennis, Peter and Quinn have ever posted valuable information somewhere at some time. I don't really care if they agree with me or if they don't. I don't frequent these other forums (except during this recent degreeinfo pause) and so don't really know their posting history. I also know that I don't really believe in the idea of "banning." If someone posts a series of inflamatory messages, or even just one, then perhaps they can go into exile for a period of time. In effect, they can serve a prison sentence. In this case they are kept out instead of being kept in. Then they can re-enter the society of the forum on probationary status. If they screw up again then they can be imprisoned for a longer period. Maybe there's a "three strikes and you're out" policy. I would also encourage some examination of their behavior while they're in exile. You can't vent bile at degreeinfo and then expect to be allowed re-entry. I'm willing to look at all points of view. I'm happy to argue with anyone and I can tolerate the fact that others disagree with me. I make mistakes and sometimes post things that I regret. I can only presume that this is true for others as well. I don't need to ban anyone. I would welcome anyone to post at degreeinfo. If you can beat me in a fair debate then that's OK with me. I am capable of changing my mind. If, however, you can not beat me (or anyone else) in a fair debate then I expect the same. Change your mind. Once upon a time Bruce would chase people through the forums, reminding them of the fact that they had made certain statements and had failed to substantiate them. While this was a bit hardcore, it served a purpose. Accountability. I'd be happy to open the doors to all and would encourage the forum leaders to do so. If someone is a three-time offender (or whatever standard is adopted) then their posting history (record of offenses) can be made available to all. In this way, permanently exiled persons (and other interested parties) can be reminded of the facts. Jack (I know this would be more work but fairness is always more work)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "While You Were Out" Ah, the good old days, when I had time to do such things. Seriously, I am a reasonable person, and if there is someone that I've banned that wants to apply for reinstatement, I'm perfectly willing to listen to their side. I can think of one instance where I did just that, and the person was reinstated with no further problems. If anyone does know of someone that wants back in, have them e-mail me at [email protected]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "While You Were Out" Thanks, Dave. I appreciate that. Progress is a disputative process: http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CA9DE.htm which reads: I am a human being, and have my limits about what can be insinuated about me and those I care about. I perceived that those limits were passed, I got angry, in a human way. People pass limits here, people pass limits "there" -- I don't know why. When I get angry, I sometimes say things I regret later, and when that happens, I try to make amends. I try to avoid extremes, but again, I am human. I have never wished accreditation would go away -- it suits a purpose. I have differences of opinion as to what that purpose is. Some say it guarantees some degree of academic quality, I say it doesn't. If you want to know your tax/tuition dollars are being spent wisely by a school, it serves that purpose, likely, and in that sense, it serves as a check-balance against rampant abuse of spending of public funds. The notion that some third variable (educational quality) is directly correlated to proper spending of funds, however, is a stretch. It's not lost on me that GAAP also means "Generally Accepted Accounting Principles". I hardly believe there's anything extreme about my belief that private education, totally divorced from public funding, totally outside of that framework is somehow de facto bogus, fraudulent, counterfeit, or whatever nasty moniker one wishes to assign it today. I thought this (and my beliefs are documented as far back as 1991 or so) before I had a "dog in the fight" -- but this is ignored and I am assumed to be a shill, a troll, or whatever. I'd never even heard of RA as pertains to American universities in 1991, so if that was some kind of pre-emptive shilling ... well, I'd be astounded to learn that my brain is a time machine. I might be led to change my mind about people here I've thrown into a certain category, but to be honest, they haven't done a thing to convince me that my opinion is hastily formed. They probably feel the same way about me. I feel I have reasons for my opinions and beliefs about higher education, others feel they have reasons for their opions and beliefs about higher education. Perhaps "never the twain shall meet". Peppering one's posts with "your fraudulent degrees" however, will get nowhere with me except maybe just annoy me, which very well might be the intent of such pepper. I don't know. Anyway ... those who think I'm a self-concerned twit can continue to think that, it's not going to change the price of tea in Bombay, just as what I think about XYZ isn't going to make one bit of difference here. At least I recognize that I and my feelings and beliefs are of absolutely no consequence whatsoever. All best,
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "While You Were Out" I'm not sure I'd dump Dennis in that group. He does have many interesting and relevant things to say about DL. But unlike Peter, Evans, and Quinn, Dennis also enjoys the bad behavior that typifies that group, and is one of their leading liars.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "While You Were Out" Once again, not surprisingly, I am in complete disagreement with Quinn Tyler Jackson. I am of the opinion that his belief that private education, totally divorced from public funding, is "de facto bogus, fraudulent, counterfeit, or whatever nasty moniker one wishes to assign it today," is not only extreme, but also wrong. I can provide numerous examples of private schools that operate outside of the public funding framework that are indeed legitimate.
