Just out of curosity I have read several articles by journalists from US, Japan and Canada about the shortage of PhD's in business, the problems in hiring at universities and the larger shortage to come due to demographics (which I have studies extensively). But this board claims tenure track jobs are almost impossible to find unless you go to Harvard, no shortage exists and most PhD graduates should expect a nice job at Denny's.... am I missing something here? What statements should I believe?? Any assistance would be appreciated...... Some answers please and of course thank you! Manda
In Canada, in most of the major universities you have about 40 to 50 students in the Ph.D. in Business program. Each faculty hires about one faculty member a year, so as you see finding a job in the academia is not easy, specially if you are looking for a tenure track position. For the other hand most of the faculty members are in their fifties, so the universities predict that in ten years will be a shortage of professors. In my experience, all the people that I know that graduated from a Ph.D. in business find a job eventually but after some years of struggling, most of the in the academia.
There are all sorts of full time teaching jobs in colleges/universities for PhDs. You just have to know where to look and be willing to put in the time to search thoroughly. Having done job searches for clients from time to time over the past few years, I can tell you that I constantly run across college teaching jobs with "PhD required" in the listing. The jobs are there for those who want them. Sunnie
Yes there are many, to find a teaching job is not difficult, but is it a tenure track position? Is it a permanent position? Is it at the community college or university level?, due to government cuts backs universities hire more part time faculty and limited term positions instead of full time tenure track ones.
Yes there are many, to find a teaching job is not difficult, but is it a tenure track position? Is it a permanent position? Is it at the community college or university level?, due to government cuts backs universities hire more part time faculty and limited term positions instead of full time tenure track ones.
Yes, these are mostly assistant and full professor positions (tenure track), though a few are temporary grant positions. It's all in knowing where and how to search The most important issue is whether a client is willing to relocate - there is no way to guarantee a specific geographic area. But there are always positions available for those who are seriously looking.
This indeed may be true for business, but is definitely not for most liberal arts areas. It's pure math: many liberal arts areas graduate more students than there are jobs in their field in a given year. This is certainly true in English, linguistics, history, political science, philosophy, religion, and so on. Tom Nixon
The math may add up -- I haven't looked into that. All I know is that I find PhD teaching positions available all the time in all fields -- including those you mentioned in the Arts. And some of those do not get filled so they eventually revert to adjunct positions just to get someone in there. Certainly some times of the year are slower than others -- the market waxes and wanes. Keep in mind that these are not just simple searches done every now and then. I have a database to which I add new institutions and listings on a daily basis. Right now there are institutions with PhD vacancies in the Arts. That could change tomorrow and in fact does change on a daily basis. The key is individuality. No one person searches in the same way as another. Everyone has different criteria in their job searches. So it's really not possible to gauge how many PhD's are not teaching because there are no jobs or that they just can't find the jobs. It may be simply that they don't know where to look or that their requirements are too stringent and so they refuse to consider some of the teaching positions available. There is no shortage of positions if one is willing to go where the work happens to be. And that's not even touching on all the jobs available at international higher ed institutions -- that is a whole 'nother ball game.
So there is jobs. Seems to me that is the moral of the story even the nice tenure track positions.....
n: This indeed may be true for business, but is definitely not for most liberal arts areas. It's pure math: many liberal arts areas graduate more students than there are jobs in their field in a given year. This is certainly true in English, linguistics, history, political science, philosophy, religion, and so on. [/QUOTE] Agreed. I figured out long ago that if my writing career doesn't pan out and I'm stuck with a Ph.D., my chances would be far better in the nonprofit think-tank and service sectors than they would be in the Academy. I'd still like to adjunct, of course, but teaching is not what I'm looking at as a full-time career because there are no guarantees attached to it. Which is not to say, Manda, that you can't get a good teaching job--just that it's not necessarily a sure thing. So I'd recommend having a plan B, just in case. Peace, ------------------ Tom Head www.tomhead.net
I have no doubt that Sunnie is correct in saying that there are jobs, perhaps many jobs, out there in the university teaching world. Some of these, perhaps many of these, are even of the tenure-track variety. I believe that the problem arises from the fact that for every job opening there are hundreds of applicants, all having PhDs from decent schools. Added to this I have heard (not to be confused with the truth) that if you don't get a teaching job within a couple of years of earning your Doctorate you are seen as being "less than wonderful" as compared the the candidate whose PhD diploma is brand new. Finally, I would point out that many in this forum are into DL because we can't relocate. It's very difficult to get your spouse to give up their job/friends, etc, get the kids to change schools, sell the house, etc, all for the chance of accepting a teaching position in Dusty Butt, Montana. A job that may not pay that well and might even turn out to be temporary. Just my $.02 Jack
Not sure about the 100's of applicants. I applied for a job in Texas in Business and pulled my name for personal reasons but the secretary told me at clsoing that there were only a few applications...... so I guesse it depends.... What about all the 50 year old professors - who is going to replace them?
Manda wrote: ...snipped... What about all the 50 year old professors - who is going to replace them?[/B][/QUOTE] If the 50 year old Professors retire in 2016 then I would guess that they'll be replaced by the people who get their PhDs in 2016 (at the bottom of the academic ladder, of course). My point is this; if I get my PhD in, lets say, 2007 and don't manage to get a teaching job within, let's say, 2 years, I'm guessing that my chances of ever getting that job diminish as time goes on. During the time period of 2007-2016 I'm working in some other field, perhaps doing quite well, but not making university connections, not doing university level research, not being published in academic journals and generally not doing the things that might make me a more desirable candidate for a tenure-track job. Will there be exceptions to the pattern I've described? Of course. Could I be wrong about all of this? Of course. But not if academia is like the other businesses I've known. My guess is that the only way a university is interested in hiring a 50-something PhD is if they have an impressive record of teaching, scholarship, publication or all of the above. Perhaps I'm being cynical (I'd say realistic) but then, I really have no interest in becoming a tenured Professor. If I am wrong then perhaps YOU will be the one to replace one of those retiring university professors. That would be OK with me too. Good luck, Jack
One point worth making: Yes, academia is an overloaded industry. But far be it from me to pooh-pooh anyone's choice of career, however implausible it may sound. When I was 12 years old, I said I'd write books when I grow up. Nobody outside of my family took me seriously. Peace, ------------------ Tom Head www.tomhead.net
Remember that business is very different than other fields. In my life I've been on 6 search committees. None of them received less than 75 applicants and the last one that I was on received over 100. And that was in a fairly small field (compared to other fields). Tom Nixon
If the 50 year old Professors retire in 2016 then I would guess that they'll be replaced by the people who get their PhDs in 2016 (at the bottom of the academic ladder, of course). My point is this; if I get my PhD in, lets say, 2007 and don't manage to get a teaching job within, let's say, 2 years, I'm guessing that my chances of ever getting that job diminish as time goes on. During the time period of 2007-2016 I'm working in some other field, perhaps doing quite well, but not making university connections, not doing university level research, not being published in academic journals and generally not doing the things that might make me a more desirable candidate for a tenure-track job. Will there be exceptions to the pattern I've described? Of course. Could I be wrong about all of this? Of course. But not if academia is like the other businesses I've known. My guess is that the only way a university is interested in hiring a 50-something PhD is if they have an impressive record of teaching, scholarship, publication or all of the above. Perhaps I'm being cynical (I'd say realistic) but then, I really have no interest in becoming a tenured Professor. If I am wrong then perhaps YOU will be the one to replace one of those retiring university professors. That would be OK with me too. Good luck, Jack[/B][/QUOTE] I agree that there is no guarantee that you will get a job after getting your PhD and it is true that if you don’t get that good job within two years after finishing your PhD then it can be become second hand. That is why most of the people in this group are going for a distance learning PhD, why? First you always earn while you learn so in case you don’t get that full time tenure position at the end of your PhD is not the end of the world. Second, if you teach part time and gain industry experience you will be in a better position that someone that just have a PhD but with no experience, specially in the business field where these are almost mandatory for a full time faculty position.
Manda: I forgot to mention that if you are looking for a teaching job in Canada you should take a look in the aucc site http://www.aucc.ca/
Business is indeed different than other fields. In my specialty, Information Systems, there are about 100 new PhD's a year graduating from U.S. schools. There are at least 300 open positions. Some other business fields are similar - Accounting, for example. DL graduates with industry experience may have some opportunities - but typically in second teir schools that aren't AACSB accredited. Also, there are some demographic changes happening in among U.S. professors. There are lot of folks that will be retiring in the coming year. My brother, who recruits faculty in the math field, finds the competition for recent graduates to be tighter of late than it has been in many years. Thanks - Andy ------------------ Andy Borchers, DBA NSU (1996)
