FYI e-degrees in S. Africa

Here is a commercial organization that offers various tertiary-level degree programs, mostly business-related. These programs are accredited by several S. African universities oft mentioned degreeinfo: Free State, Stellenbosch, Potchefstroom and Pretoria. Parktown College is also involved. There was a link to it from Free State's site Here it is:
http://www.edegree.co.za/

 

You are going to come across this wuite a bit in non-US environments. In many professionas in UK, Australia, NZ, ZA etc., degrees are not the 'license' that they are in US. This is common in law, accounting, enginnering, banking and finance, as well as others.

Many senior members of the professions are not degreed but have done 'apprenticeship' type vocational training. This has involved night, weekend or distance education, plus supervision by a peer in the profession who fills the role of a mentor. I have NO undergraduate degreees at all, and my university qualifications start at a Masters in Accountancy, and a Post Graduate Bachelors in Education. Where people do have degrees, it could be in an unrelated field - e.g. a friend of mine, national audit partner of a global CPA/Chartered firm has a MA in ancient history as his only degree.

So what eventuates is the professional bodies in some instances becoming degree granting, on their own as the Engineers are in Australian with their own excellent DE MBA, or in partnership wiht traditional universities as many are in UK e.g. Banking. These degrees are held in very high esteem and are an additional source of qualification options for US aspirants.

What I fail to understand is why Americans don't stay on their home turf and get something that is known and generally accepted. I do understand the cost angle, but education is an investment, NOT a cost.



------------------
Peter French
MEd MAcc(UNE)CMA
Melbourne, Australia
[email protected]

 

1) Portability of degrees. If you look at the faculties of better universities or employees of bigger companies in the US, you will see a surprising number of foreign degrees. Therefore there is no "requirement" to say at home.
2) Quality. There is a tremendous span of educational quality in the US. From some of the best Universities in the world to some that wouldn't be accepted as a good British high school. Some foreign countries have more "consistent" quality.
3) Opportunity. Foreign schools increase the number of quality opportunities. Also, the US DL environment is very different than Australia. In Australia you largely have traditional universities offering traditional programs externally. In the US you generally have "non-traditional" schools or "non-traditional" programs... most of which are not rated very high (lack of acceptance can be a concern).

 

Peter, just as you don't (or shouldn't) expect to receive completely candid and upfront explanations about the personal events of others' lives (such as divorce, employment changes, and other transitions), I don't think you should expect all of the searchers on degreeinfo.com to fully explain themselves. Some people have very complex reasons and criteria that defy being placed on a radio button list.

 

And, I would add that the population on degreeinfo is miniscule and highly motivated by their interests...hardly a sample about which to make a statistical judgment. I'd guess the average educational consumer never gave a moment's thought to DL.

 

At the doctoral level, sometimes the cost of a US program is prohibitive. An entire degree program at UNISA of PUCHE is cheaper than one year at Union, Walden, or Capella.

Bruce

 

Probably for the same reasons Australians would pursue Ph.D.'s from a little school in Mexico no one ever heard of by working through an American organization contracted to conduct the programs: because it meets their needs.

Rich Douglas, who's decided to stay domestic.

 

Now that you mention it, Rich, it does seem that Peter followed this route (I believe it was MIGS, right?), at least for a time. Oh well, no need to dwell there! Your observation is correct, in that a credible non-US degree program meets the needs of "some" US students. Since I already have US RA degrees (BA, MA, DMin), I have no problem going GAAP for the Ph.D.

Russell

 

Ah, but it is actually once before and yet again. According to Peter, he has returned to pursue his degree from MIGS. This after a much-ballyhood dropping of the program because a degree from the CEU would not be recognized by NOOSR.

Peter has laid great claim to have been involved with the creation of MIGS, an event I fortunately missed. My misfortune was in coming along after the grand plans had been laid, but before it was clear there was no ability--intention?--to carry them out. I gave them public and private support and research for a year, gratis. I had the same deal given Peter: do the degree for free. But even "free" can be too expensive, you know?

The available result may remain--a properly issued doctorate from a little Mexican high school/university no one has ever heard of. But the required journey is through the muck and mire of MIGS.

Rich Douglas, who's already lost one pair of shoes on this journey!

 

Like everybody else I'm going to reply to a remark that Peter probably just threw in at the end of his main points.

Because we're AMERICANS, Frenchy. The world's our oyster. We love barging into other people's countries and acting loud and obnoxious. If we can't do it in person, distance education gives us the means to do it without even requiring us to stir from our couches or put down our beers. LOL

Seriously though, the telecommunications revolution and the rise of distance education are going to make national boundaries increasingly irrelevant in higher education. It's the wave of the future.

If I am going to be taking a course by internet, an Australian website looks an awful lot like an American website.

Contrary to what some people sometimes write here, I haven't really seen any discrimination in the US against degrees earned overseas. The San Francisco Bay Area where I live is positively filled with swarthy people speaking gibberish (very loudly), so foreign degrees are being accepted here every day. It's already become routine. Globalization and all that.

So I expect that foreign distance degree options will increasingly be treated by Americans like any other degree program. We will look for degrees offered in subjects of interest to us, at a reasonable cost. We will want programs to be convenient and user-friendly.

Many foreign programs will be (some already are) viable contenders for American attention.

So look out world, here we come!

 

Most people do want a degree that is "known and generally accepted." This doesn't mean that USA degrees are the only ones satisfying these criteria for Americans. Overseas degrees are well-accepted in many sectors, and many Americans may find that these degrees serve them better than the current USA alternatives. Education may be an investment, but the cost is a real issue for those not fortunate enough to have tuition paid by an employer or other sponsor. In my case, the closest USA alternative to the University of London MSc to which I have applied would be a Johns Hopkins program costing more than four times as much.

Alex

 

I agree, Bill. While there will always be bias of some type with any degree program, I haven't seen the sort of discrimination some allude to either. Actually, I am familiar with quite a few who have RA bachelor's and master's, then go on to earn a non-US GAAP doctorate. My doctoral director at a US Presbyterian seminary had the BA & MA from RA schools, and a Th.D. from the U of Basil.
I also know several full-time faculty at RA/ATS seminaries who hold the Ph.D./Th.D. from Unisa, St. Johns College (UK), Sheffield, etc.

So, as non-US options expand, I too think there will be an increase of US students enrolling in these programs.

Russell

 

It is so unfortunate that the cost of higher education in the U.S. has almost gotten out of control--this is especially true for professional degrees like law, medicine, etc. At least the light at the end of the tunnel for professional degrees seem to be some sort of financial recoupment via a good paying job for the majority of the graduates. I can't see how most in academic fields can afford to do a Ph.D. in History or Theology say at the University of Chicago or similar private school, dishing out 40-50K (US) per year. It's nice to be hopeful that a great paying job will come along...but unfortunately, there are a good number of graduates in the social sciences that do not get jobs.

Some of these schools expect you to have "first tier" or "Ivy League" caliber degrees that would have costed you 50K per year (so for college and grad school = a total of 8+ years x 50K) but is only willing to offer you 40K/yr (unless you're in a more demanded field) to start. How are you to support yourself, your family and pay back the 400K?

The cost of U.S. education needs to be overhauled somehow.

EsqPhD

 

Or try Duke's Ph.D. in Religion at a tuition of some 70K. I visited the Duke divinity library just today, doing research on my Potchefstroom Ph.D. (since I live only 30 miles from Duke's campus). But unless Ed McMahan calls with the good news that I have won the sweepstakes, alas, funds aren't available for Duke.

Russell

 

Of course, most who do Arts and Sciences Ph.D.'s at such private schools are paying in a different way. The top private schools offer fellowships and assistantships providing for the cost of tuition and a small (poverty level) stipend. Service in the form of assisting in teaching or faculty research may or may not be required, depending on the details of that fellowship. Students often don't pay tuition (I never paid a cent of tuition to my Ph.D. institution), but the cost to the student comes in the form of years of extremely low earnings. A typical student in Ph.D. programs graduates with little or no student loan debt (except perhaps for that incurred as an undergraduate) but also with little or no savings for retirement, purchase of a home, etc.

Alex

 

Peter - In my case education is definitely a cost and not an investment. Assuming that I move forward and earn my PhD in Philosophy as planned I cannot hope to parlay that into a higher paying job than I currently hold. In the area where I live (Greater Boston) PhDs are a-dime-a-dozen and you're not going to get one of those full-time, tenure-track teaching jobs that so many people seem to be interested in landing. Even if I took a part-time adjunct teaching position at some little school (which I may shoot for), I may not even make as much as I could make by putting in the same number of hours working at some fee-for-service psychotherapy job (in addition to my regular position). The fact is, I take a bit of pleasure from the fact that I'm not doing this for the money. This is something that increasingly fewer people can say, people who are studying "business" or "computers" solely because they believe they can get a job when they graduate. Perhaps I shouldn't complain though. After all, they'll constitute a whole new crop of clients in the future, once they hit that "mid-life crisis" age ;-)
Jack

 

I agree. What surprises me is that something so obvious continues to be questioned.

Great post by the way.


Contrary to what some people sometimes write here, I haven't really seen any discrimination in the US against degrees earned overseas. The San Francisco Bay Area where I live is positively filled with swarthy people speaking gibberish (very loudly), so foreign degrees are being accepted here every day. It's already become routine. Globalization and all that.

So I expect that foreign distance degree options will increasingly be treated by Americans like any other degree program. We will look for degrees offered in subjects of interest to us, at a reasonable cost. We will want programs to be convenient and user-friendly.

Many foreign programs will be (some already are) viable contenders for American attention.

So look out world, here we come!

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Education is an investment but when you can get an equal or better education at a foreign school for a lower cost... it is a better investment.

Even if your employer pays cost can still be an issue... I can get a USQ DBA for less that the TAX I would need to pay on a 100% employer sponsored Nova DBA!

 

Dear Russell,

I can clearly see your point, and I totally agree with you. However, please let me ask you, other things being equal, would you advice an American to go via foreign route from the very beginning to very end, that is, getting a foreign associate, a foreign bachelor, a foreign master, and a foreign doctorate?

Please don't get me wrong. I am going to study offshore, but I will also make sure to pick up some American degrees before I do that, or at least I am going to try. We all know that there are many reasons why an American can study offshore, and these have been discussed here ad nauseaum.

On a related note, and I am not sure if I should be proud in admitting this, the USA is the country that has more international students than any other country in the world. This clearly means that the USA attracts many offshore students. I don't know what these international students have in mind since they can clearly go to Canada, England, Australia, etc., but I wish them the best, and I hope that they have made the right decision in coming to this country, the United States of America.

As someone would say, "Happy 4th of July, my fellow Americans".

All the very best,


Karlos Albert Lacaye
[email protected]

 

There may very well be cases where this would/could be an option for a US student. However, with the numerous US RA options currently available, especially at the undergrad level, I would think in many/most cases it would be advantageous for a US student (who plans to remain in the US) to have a US credential of some type.

For example, why would most US students go GAAP for a 2-year degree, when any community college can produce one for less than $2000?
There may be rare circumstances, but in most cases, at that level, the options are far too numerous (even via DL) to go GAAP. At the graduate level, especially doctoral, there are less opions in the US RA market, and the cost is much more prohibitive.

Russell