Martial Arts Author from Mars!

Well, this situation came to my attention via a good friend in Vermont about three months ago, since I'm really no longer involved with "the arts" I felt it wasn't my place to say anything. Hell, I even asked avice of a few luminaries here on the board. But, this was forwarded to me a couple of days ago.

So, I guess the cat is out of the bag, eh?

Incidentally, the organization doesn't seem to exist, it's probably fake and that's not very cool, but the facts of the email are pretty easy to verify.

So, here 'tis...

"Association for Martial Arts Educational Integrity AMAEI

For immediate release:

Martial Arts "Doctor" has fake degree

Internationally renown for his self-published series of books about the peaceful side of the martial arts, and the current designated academian of American Martial Arts, Mr. Terrence Webster Doyle of Vermont and Florida received his "doctorate" from a known diploma mill, shut down in 2000 by law enforcement authorities in Marin County California.


<http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/News/cpu.html>

<http://www.ptreyeslight.com/stories/dec24/chileno.html>

<http://www.ptreyeslight.com/stories/dec30_99/ruling.html>

<http://www.dca.ca.gov/press_releases/2000113.htm>

The college, Columbia Pacific University, has been at the center of debate recently as the author of the famous self-help bestseller Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, John Gray also claimed to have been awarded a d octorate at the now-defunct institution. California, up until very recently has had a lax attitude regarding schools there. Though the college was not accredited by any body recognized by the United States Department of Education, (usually one of the major regional accreditors or the main national accreditor DETC) it was allowed to operate despite the lack of rigor or any actual study of research to earn degrees.

The following link, to Mr. Doyle's website claims his doctorate from Columbia Pacific University in "Health and Human Services" and his Master's degree in psychology from Sonoma State University both in California. (As of this date, research into Mr. Doyle's his master's degree has not been completed, however, AMAEI has no reason to believe that the Sonoma degree is fake as well. Another ongoing investigation continues regarding an award from the "Albert Schweitzer Society". At this time, there is no reason to suggest that this award or the awarding institution is necessarily fake. However, given the illegitimacy of his academic degree, all other claims must come into question.)

Follow link:

http://www.atriumsoc.org/images/CoverStory.pdf

The irony of an author who espouses honor, character and is the self-designated guru of mindful martial arts in America using a clearly phony degree and insisting upon the designation of "doctor" is, in fact a blow to those who have read and enjoyed his books.

Mr. Doyle has come under criticism in some martial arts circles recently regarding his philosophy and it's efficacy in an actual violent encounter. We, as an organization, have no opinion or position on that matter."

The funny thing is the fact that Gray "attended" the same school! Another author bites the dust, I guess.
Thx
Dan B

 

Character building...

...falls down. Goes boom. "Actual violent encounter." With reality.

 

I've never heard of Doyle and don't care a whole lot about him. But if the only reason that he's being trashed is because he did a degree with Columbia Pacific University, I think that's pretty weak.

At one time, CPU had a pretty decent reputation, particularly in more "alternative" circles. It was the place in the SF Bay Area to study subjects that weren't offered elsewhere. That gave Columbia Pacific a rather high flakiness-factor, but it also created the distinct impression that it just might be the place the next big breakthrough was going to come from. I know for a fact that many professors at more mainstream Bay Area universities treated CPU seriously.

This keeps getting trotted out periodically as well.

California is more strict than it used to be? That's news to me.

DETC is the main "national accreditor"? That's news too.

As I said, I think that Columbia Pacific wasn't half bad at one time. It was one of the better CA-approved schools and could perhaps have followed schools like CIIS to RA if it had been managed properly. But apparently it wasn't managed properly and it gradually unraveled.

Sonoma State's masters in psychology is/was very friendly towards humanistic psychology (it had a national reputation for it) and quite a few Sonoma State graduates with interests in alternative topics in psychology went on to Columbia Pacific, which was just down the road.

I think that at its height in the late 70's and early 80's, Columbia Pacific might arguably have been the best place in the United States to do a doctoral degree with a martial arts emphasis. (Not least because it was perhaps the only place.) Face it, the martial arts aren't a traditional academic subject and don't really lend themselves to a traditional academic approach.

What Indiana Jones film was that where some ninja-type guy jumps out in front of Jones and does all kinds of threatening movie-style martial arts moves, and our American hero just looks disgusted, pulls out his revolver and blows the guy's head off?

 

And again...

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen. I was aware of CPU's earlier history, but as for gaining a "Legit" Doctorate... well, that would be another twenty post argument. Here, just outside Asheville the fam,ous Black Mountain College was founded many years ago and it was never an accredited school. Brilliant though it was. I can understand wanting to make an institution like that a part of my educational life, but if I were insisting folks call me doctor, I would also insist that I take myself to an accredited university to gain one.
Certainly this argument has been done to death here. Suffice to ask, (or axe if you're on Futurama) why wouldn't a man so clearly brilliant, just do it through a school accredited by an association at least recognized by the USDE? His doctorate was in "Health and Human Services" nothing to do with martial arts or anything else. I have recommended the man's work to several folks, and I admire his ideas. But, after spending time in graduate study and knowing what a legit Ph.D. will take... it's irritating to see someone sucking the sweetest marrow for the least work. But again, "C'est La Vie"! (Is that spelled right? Too damn lazy to look.)

 

Thats too bad to hear it about him, he has written a few good kids books on the martial arts. I have met him on a few occassions and he seemed like a gentleman. Things like this give martial artists like myself a BAD NAME!

 

Sad and Painful

Yeah, that's kind of how I felt for a while too. But, really, after researching the school... while he was there, it seemed to be a pretty legit enterprise. Even Bear's guide once mentioned them as a good school, though unaccredited by any organization recognized by the US Dep. of Ed.

http://www.altcpualumni.org/chronicles/bears8th.pdf

I have ridiculously MIXED feelings about this situation! I am amazed, and saddened by the HUGE number of Martial artists who claim "Doctorates" in the martial arts. I do understand the impetus. A few years ago I discussed the idea with my black belt students and we actually decided to designate masters degrees and doctorates within our system... then, after reading Dr. Bear's book and going back to school to gain a legitimate doctorate, I felt rather stupid for doing so. We dropped the idea, as anyone who thought it through would.
Actually, and this is my own measure, not insisting upon this for anyone else, except in the case of acupuncture or chiropractic, I do not recognize a US Doctorate as legit unless earned at an institution accredited by an organization officially recognized by the United States Department of Education. This is the same measure used by the GAO. Which means: as fine as they may be, degrees earned, even by such an obviously talented and well-meaning man as Mr. Doyle, that are not earned by these measures, are, to me, not legitimate. And hence, he is not a "doctor" of anything in my limited vision. Sorry, sad, but true.

And I keep getting the emails about him. Someone really wants me to address this. So I have and I move on.

 

yeah, California Pacific used to be a fairly reputable school in the 80s. It also had a lot of unique programs that no longer exist.

 

Re: Sad and Painful

Hi Jodokk:

I have been holding off in responding to this, I really don't know what to say. I can't make myself dislike the guy. It's too bad he didn't receive his degree from an accredited University.

On another note, I like your website!

Take care brother!

Respectfully,

Abner

 

I agree

I quite agree, I don't dislike him at all. I feel sorry for the timebomb that anyone sets when deciding on this particular route.
Thanks for the good feelings.
Dan B

 

Dan:

Since you only recognize US doctorates that are RA, then by such reasoning do you only recognize ranks in Japanese martial arts that are directly issued by organizations that are sanctioned by the government of Japan such as the Butokukai or IMAF. Are all non Japanese martial arts ranks, I mean those not awarded by organizations physically located in Japan and sanctioned by the Japanese Government, (in Japanese arts) by you evaluated as not being real or recognized.

For example could we recognize a karate dan grade not issued through a member organization of the All Japan Karate Federation or at least IMAF

Of course less than 10 percent of American black belts could meet such a standard.

(sorry the question mark is not working on my keyboard)

 

There is still an issue of exemplarism.

"Moms, dads, here I am proclaiming myself an exemplar to your kids. They should not only learn skills from me but take me as their model. OK, kids, go get an unaccredited doctorate like I did. I didn't do it because I wanted to improve my learning privately. I chose a credentialing route that is not very useful if you're honest about it. I did it to impress people. And if it fools them, not my problem. Now you go do what I did."

Wotta role model.

 

Just to clarify, the CPU under discussion is Columbia Pacific University.




Tom Nixon

 

?

I'm sorry, I thought I was being clear, there are many other accreditors that are recognized by the USDE than simply the regional ones. I did not say that I only recognize the RA ones. I will be more specific next time. (?)
Ranks and styles in the martial arts are so vastly diverse now that any ATTEMPT to even begin to talk about legit and non-legit as far as martial arts degrees go, is simply impossible. It is a mess of egocentric nonsense and I am more than happy to be away from the fray.
I have not discussed martial arts degrees AT ALL. My discussion is only in the realm of academic degrees such as Mr. Doyle's "health and Human Services" doctorate from CPU. I have absolutely no opinion about the legitimacy of ANY martial arts degree. I hope that is clear. And (After thirty one years) I really don't care.

To be clear, here, we are discussing academic degrees and the sale of books based on the reader's confidence in the legitimacy of the writer's qualification and level of education.

And, I clearly stated that I was discussing degrees earned in the US. I would apply Generally Accepted Accreditation Standards for any foreign degrees.

Your logic stream suggested that I accept only RA degrees. I didn't say that, so, the post (and I don't mean to be facetious) makes no sense to me. Sorry.
Of course I accept other than Japanese martial arts degrees, I have a few.

Dan B

 

I only wish I had said that!

Well, heck, again, as usual, You have put the issue more clearly that I. I would have to say, that's my biggest problem with the degree.

 

Absolutely!

Jeez, Tom, I didn't catch that. Yes, absolutely, Columbia Pacific University.
Thanks

Dan B

 

Posted by Dan:

'm sorry, I thought I was being clear, there are many other accreditors that are recognized by the USDE than simply the regional ones. I did not say that I only recognize the RA ones. I will be more specific next time. (?)
Ranks and styles in the martial arts are so vastly diverse now that any ATTEMPT to even begin to talk about legit and non-legit as far as martial arts degrees go, is simply impossible. It is a mess of egocentric nonsense and I am more than happy to be away from the fray.
I have not discussed martial arts degrees AT ALL. My discussion is only in the realm of academic degrees such as Mr. Doyle's "health and Human Services" doctorate from CPU. I have absolutely no opinion about the legitimacy of ANY martial arts degree. I hope that is clear. And (After thirty one years) I really don't care.

To be clear, here, we are discussing academic degrees and the sale of books based on the reader's confidence in the legitimacy of the writer's qualification and level of education.

And, I clearly stated that I was discussing degrees earned in the US. I would apply Generally Accepted Accreditation Standards for any foreign degrees.

Your logic stream suggested that I accept only RA degrees. I didn't say that, so, the post (and I don't mean to be facetious) makes no sense to me. Sorry.
Of course I accept other than Japanese martial arts degrees, I have a few.

Dan

Sorry Dan, by RA I simply meant properly accredited--I should have been more specific. Anyway, it seems that martial arts ranks are very much like college degrees--some are from properly accredited organizations--that is, organizations sanctioned by the government in the country of origin for the art in question or at the very least an organization sanctioned by the OC or ministry of Sports or education of the country where the person holding the rank lives. The USA is deplorable in this regard. Here, anyone can issue any rank in any art. Very very few karate ranks for example awarded in America would be formally recognized in Japan, the country of origin for karate do. I disagree that it is impossible to adjudicate the legitimacy of martial arts ranks. Let us take karate do for example: the rank was either issued by an examiner or organization sanctioned by the JKF or the butokukai or it was not. Still, there is another way a rank might be legitimate: it is simply a matter of lineage. Take the Shotokan style of karate do for example--if the rank is a JKA or Shotokai rank issued in Japan or abroad by a certified examiner--or even by instructors who have established organizations abroad but have a long history and reputation, like say Master Nishiyama--or even less formally a rank issued by an authentic student of an authentic instructor--say an advanced student of Mr. Nishiyama, then it is likely legitimate. The gold standard of course is that the grade be issued by an organization sanctioned in Japan by JKF--thus by the Government of Japan. It really is not difficult at all--the logic is identical to accreditation. So, if one would accept no academic degree that is not properly accredited, then one should accept no martial arts rank that is not sanctioned at least by some national government authority--in the case of karate do that would best be Japan. The question of legitimate rank has nothing to do with the skill level of the holder, mind you, just as an unaccredited degree could be earned by a super student. So would you accept a karate do rank that is not officially sanctioned, at least indirectly, by a government recognized Japanese organization--that is my simple question.

 

No Thanks.

Ah, and here's my not-so-simple answer... Your question assumes that I would "accept" or "not accept" a degree in "karate-do" based on your given parameters.
Again, I am no longer involved in the martial arts except to watch my son's UNCA martial arts club. So, I am in no position, and have absolutely no care, to accept or not accept any rank or made up bs degree, or otherwise in the martial arts. I do not care. I have not mentioned karate-do, anywhere and I care nothing for it, whatever. And I would not accept or reject anyone based on anything about "Karate-do". So I can't answer that question with any real interest. Sorry.

But, that said, for the sake of the same old degreeinfo fun... hehehe, I'll bite...

I will say this, "sigh" Semantics is a wonderful thing... yes? Hmmm, "Karate-do",
obviously, Peter Urban's Tenth degree shocker was a problem for the Japanese Goju crowd, but I wouldn't mark him as having been illegitimate. So I would have to say yes! But then you could say, "well, that was Yamaguchi's Goju, not 'Karate-do'" and then we could argue about Okinawan "Te" and legitimacy of shotokan and blah, blah, we could fool around all night with such factional silliness. And, of course, I was discussing martial arts, not the narrow focus of "karate-do". So, finding legitimacy in JKD, or Brazilian Jujitsu, or Capoeira using Japanese Karate-do as a measure... you can't, I can't and frankly, who cares?

I AM involved in academia, and I DO care about that. I would assume a legitimate Ph.D. would care.

The truth is, and the discussion revolves around the fact that this gentleman received a "doctorate" from a known degree mill, shut down by law enforcement officers and, from what I can tell, the owner may have found himself behind bars.
So is his degree fake? I wouldn't say that. Again, Semantics on the degreeinfo board! Fun, fun. "fake", ok, no, not fake. But not from an accredited institution. That should probably matter to any student, Ph.D. or not. Wouldn't you agree?
After having researched the history of CPU, they had a heyday- long gone. If he was involved then, he may have garnered some benefit. But I would say any degree "earned" (or paid for) at that time was from an institution not accredited by an organization recognized by the United States Department of Education. Is there anything in that statement that isn't factual? And, as I said before, in MY opinion, given that fact, and his having "studied" in the US, he is not a "doctor" of anything.

 

Accepted for what? I've seen way too many people in the martial arts world make up their own martial art based on a mix and match of others and call themselves Grand Master whatever. These are the ones that usually have an ego trip, beat up on smaller people, and like to brag about how much they know. They then proceed to get the crap beat out of them in a bar. People using martial arts to give themselves actual academic degree titles is a new low.

Of course there is that rare exception, where a person is really good, and really does come up with a martial art that is something special. Bruce Lee, Jigoro Kano, and Morihei Ueshiba are some examples. The true test is usually when the founder dies, does the art continue to flourish or not.

So in my dojo (Judo) I have the policy if you want to come and practice and you used to study some other martial art, no matter how obscure, you are more than welcome to. You never know what you might learn. You can wear whatever type of gi you want, and whatever color belt your rank was. All I ask is that you follow the dojo's rules.

 

Ahhh! Is that fresh air?

That was well written. This was always my rule as well. We usually found out where a person stood during sparring or grappling night. Not if they won or lost, but what spirit they exhibited as they won or lost. I enjoyed your post.
Dan B

 

Its funny how a discussion on a doctorate has tured into one on Martial arts ranks. But the topic of phony degrees and ranks are very similar.
In my 30plus year in the MA's I have met alot of snake oil salesman. I do believe that rank does not have to be given(if a Japanese or Okinawan stylist) from Japan. On Okinawa organizations like the Dai Nippon Butokukai and the JKF have little influence on what they do. There are several organizations in the US that grant rank and have the power to do so. This is simply because the associations are composed of recognized legitimate martial artists. The sad thing is the martial arts breed overnight masters, grand masters, super soke's etc and is nothing that will ever change.
I travel to Okinawa to see my main teacher(who is the senior teacher on the island) several times a year to continue to learn, I figure how can I be a Master or Grandmaster in what I do unless I have mastered life and im only at about 1% on the way on that journey.

Take care