Ashworth college - Criminal Justice - Master degree anyone

Hello. I just enrolled for the master degree in criminal justice from Ashworth College, and waiting for the course books.

Is there anyone doing the master degree in criminal justice from Ashworth? Please email me [email protected]

Jean from Canada

 

What? You don't want to share your experiences with others here... so that everyone can benefit from whatever you guys talk about? Ashworth, generally, is, I've found, of general interest to everyone here because it's so cost effective that it's just too much for many to resist; while at the same time its DETC accreditation (instead of regional accreditation) make some worry that it won't have as much utility as some would like. Others also worry about the rigor (i.e., whether an Ashworth degree has enough of it to be truly legit)... although, from my cursory research, that would actually appear not to be a problem since it appears that Ashworth's coursework is, indeed, sufficiently rigorous to be worthy of its accreditation.

Anyway... while I, for one, certainly don't begrudge you your right to have people email you and then you and they keep it all to yourselves, I just wanted to point out that anything that you and they might be willing to share and discuss openly here would probably be appreciated by more people than you know.

For what that's worth.

 

Andrew Jackson University has a Criminal Justice degree. They are about the same as Ashworth in terms of costs...I kinda like the name better than Asworth too.


Also DETC

www.aju.edu

 

I don't know much about Ashworth but I have to put a plug in for BU! Great program-no GRE required either. A little on the expensive side though-sounds like Ashworth is more reasonably priced. Let us know how you like it. Good Luck!!

 

Sorry DesElms

Dear DesElms,

I did not mean to encourage people not to post. I am new to discussion board and not very familiar with everything. I decide to post to share my experiences with everyone and to receive feedbacks from others. I am a new member from today. "Milles excuses".

For me, a regionally accredited degree is not very important since I am working in the criminal justice field as a criminal prosecutor since 1990; The degree will be used for job advancement. I work full time so I cannot return to a classroom University.

Again, excuse me for having written my email within my posting.

Jean

 

What BU means?

Tattoo, you wrote that you "have to put a plug in for BU!"

Excuse my ignorance but BU stands for which University?

Jean.

 

Re: Sorry DesElms

Now it's my turn to apologize to you. I didn't mean, in my posting, above, to make it sound like you had screwed-up or something. If it came across that way, I apologize. You most certainly did not do anything wrong. All I was saying was that in a place like this, unless privacy is a big issue or something, it's much nicer for everyone to conduct their conversations right out in the open -- to the degree possible... I mean, after all, there is a PM feature for times when it's not -- so that everyone can learn from it. I only wrote what I wrote because I happen to know that many people around here -- some who have posted, and some who are just lurkers -- find Ashworth's program attractive, but hesitate for a variety of reasons. So I just thought that if you and whomever else talked about it here, some might get their questions asked and/or concerned assuaged, etc. That's all.

So please don't worry that you did anything wrong. You didn't. If my post came across sternly or something like that, it's partly 'cause I'm just a big jerk sometimes; and mostly 'cause written communications like this lack the audible and visual cues upon which most humans rely to give them context and to convey when someone's just kidding around, etc. Clearly what I wrote came across differently than I meant it.

So, anyway... you're saying that you have your J.D. (and got admitted to the bar, obviously) and have been a prosecutor for a while; and so now you're getting your masters in criminal justice from Ashworth... for job advancement. Cool!

I'm curious in what way, though. I mean, how will the masters in CJ be viewed, and by whom, as a valuable thing on top of your J.D.? Maybe that's just another way of asking for what kind of advanced position you'd be preparing yourself; and why the county for which you work would see the masters in CJ as a vast improvement in your understanding of the criminal justice system after more than a decade of what you've been doing for a living.

Just wonderin'.

 

A little more, actually -- about a thousand dollars, at the graduate level -- but I'd say that that, indeed, still falls within the realm of, as you said, "about the same ... in terms of cost."

EDIT: I just noticed that it's a thousand dollars more, course-by-course. If you pay all at once or monthly, it really is about the same cost. My bad.

I can certainly see why. For starters, AJU offers bachelors programs, too... Ashworth does not (and many here have wondered why and have even seemed irritated by it at times).. although that clearly has nothing to do with masters degrees, I realize, as is part of the subject of this thread... but I'm just sayin'.

I've never really looked at Andrew Jackson University very much. To make sure I'm thinking of the same place that I think I'm thinking of... did AJU get a relatively recent web site facelift? I mean, was the old site -- I dunno... less than a year ago, I'd say -- kinda' gray and unprofessional looking? Or am I thinking of someplace else?

And ACE, I notice... which, as John Bear and others have correctly pointed-out around here in the past, could give the DETC accreditation a bit of a boost in terms of any AJU degree's utility later on down the road.

 

Also, if a school is DETC and ACE why would that hurt someone (not in academic field) for getting a job?

I would think that an employer would only care about the school being accredited by the American Council of Education/US Dept of Education (are they technically the same?) that is all that would count?

 

Jean,

You don't need a degree but only to read The Main.

More seriously, I think it interesting that a US and DETC degree can be so useful to you in Quebec. In 1967 I couldn't even find American cigarettes in Montreal other than at the USSR pavilion at the World's Fair.

 

AJU and ACE

It looks like AJU participates with ACE by agreeing to accept ACE evaluated credits in transfer. They are not listed as having any of their own courses evaluated for ACE credit recomendations.

 

Re: What BU means?

Sorry 'bout that! Boston University. B&M school w/ good reputation in the CJ community. Completely online, excellent instructors-the same ones who teach at the University, same courses and expectations. 36 credits at 4 credits per course, so 9 courses. Each course is almost $2500 though. I had to take out some student loans but in my opinion it has been well worth it.

 

Re: Re: Sorry DesElms

I'm not saying that it applies in this case, but the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences usually wants tenured faculty members to hold a Ph.D., but they will grant a certain number of exceptions if someone has a J.D. AND a Master's in Criminal Justice.

The ACJS is not an accreditor, but their suggested guidelines are watched very closely by schools with CJ programs.

 

AJU Addendum

And I'll add something else that I just noticed about AJU that may also make it better in some ways -- but perhaps only superficially -- than Ashworth: At the undergraduate level, AJU uses common names for its essential lower-division general education coursework... names that will be easily recognizable to registrars at other institutions who may be trying to assess one's AJU undergraduate transcript.

"Why is that important?" you ask. Well, in another thread here, there was some question about whether a regionally-accredited bachelors program would accept, on its face, all 60 hours of an Ashworth DETC-accredited AS degree. In that thread I talked about a discussion I had had with a program director of just such a regionally-accredited bachelors program who said that, just from looking at Ashworth's web site, the applicant may or may not have adequate general education coursework; and that s/he may have to take a few additional hours -- perhaps 6 to 9 or maybe even 12 additional hours -- of lower-division, general education coursework for the Ashworth AS degree to be acceptable to that bachelors program.. but he made it very clear that he wasn't sure and couldn't really tell until he'd delved more deeply into it.

Later, when I found additional time, I bothered to call the registrar of that same regionally-accredited university to find out just what the deal was. One of the things I learned from that conversation was that they specifically looked, on applicant's transcripts, for "English Composition I" and "English Composition II" or any easily-recognizable derivatives thereof; and that they wanted to see a good, solid, college-level math class of some kind... preferably "College Algebra," but "Finite Math" or "College Mathematics" would work, too. Beyond that, most any other lower-division general educational coursework, they said -- and almost no matter how named -- was acceptable.

Well, none of Ashworth's AS degrees name their English or math classes in quite the way that that bachelors program wanted to see them named; hence, the registrar of said bachelors program indicated that a thorough review of Ashworth's courses would need to be performed in order to determine if they, indeed, satisfied the regionally-accredited bachelors program requirements.

With AJU, that wouldn't be a problem. I notice that it calls its English composition courses pretty much (well... sans the actual word "English") what most other colleges and universities tend to call theirs: "EN 111 - Composition I" and "EN 112 - Composition II" and that they call their finite math course exactly that. This would make the registrar's job at the aforementioned regionally-accredited bachelors program a whole lot easier to evaluate than would Ashworth's AS degree.

That, plus the fact that AJU's AS degrees are ACE approved, would, I would think, tend to make said AJU AS degree a pretty potent requisite to a regionally-accredited bachelors program... perhaps moreso, on some levels, than the Ashworth program might tend to be. Or maybe not. Who really knows 'til they present it to a regionally-accredited program.

Those interested in more details -- and, make no mistake about it, I'm quite certain almost no one here is -- may, nevertheless, click here to read my posting where I explained it all in the aforementioned other thread.

 

Re: AJU and ACE

Ah! Well, that is different. I saw "ACE" on AJU's accreditation page and looked no further. My bad... again. Okay, then... so ACE is not an AJU benefit after all. Noted.

EDIT: (Afterthought) Wow... that really could be misleading to a potential AJU student who's also an uncareful or -- as I was -- and unthorogh and in-a-hurry reader, couldn't it?

Just shows-ta'-go-ya'... always read claims of credibility very carefully.

 

Aha... I see. Interesting. Begs the question, of course: Must said JD be ABA-approved (i.e., could it be one of California's non-ABA-approved, but still CalBar accredited/registered -- and, therefore, requisite to sit for California's bar exam -- JDs)? Just curious.

 

Gregg: Check your PMs.

 

Law practice in Quebec LLB versus JD

To practice law in Quebec, also in other Canadian provinces, a person should be admitted to the Bar after completing an LL.L (License of Laws) or an LL.B. (Bachelor of Laws) In Quebec, The law degree takes three years to complete followed by a year at the "Ecole du Barreau" (Bar School). Essentially, it is a bachelor in law. There is also the LL.M. (Master of Laws) and the LL.D. (Law Doctorate). In Canada, there is no J.D. We have LL.L, LL.B., LL.M., and LL.D..

Unless I am mistaking, the J.D. (Juris Doctor) only exists in the U.S.A.. The J.D. appears because American Lawyers protested that other professionals earned “doctorate degrees” instead of bachelors. Such professionals were podiatrists, medical doctors, optometrists, etc. The bachelor of Law degree was converted to a J.D. degree but, in reality, a lawyer who has a J.D. has no more educational years than those having an LL.B. So, I have an LL.B.; Three years for the bachelor and one year at the Bar plus the bar exams.

I can earn up to two years in work credits if I earn another degree. Before my LL.B., I studied criminology at the University of Ottawa, and my employer, Justice Quebec (Minister of Justice), evaluated that bachelor and gave me one more year of work experience. With another degree, I can gain the remaining one year. In reality, I have 15 years of work experiences but my salary is calculated for 16 years due to my bachelor in criminology. It did not matter if my degree is coming from the U.S.A., Canada, or another part of the world. Of course, I prefer one that is accredited to be sure to avoid fraud. A master degree may help me for a judge position… I hope some day.

Since I am a French Canadian, studying in English is another reason to choose a U.S. master degree. Jean is a male name in Quebec and it is similar to John in English. Hopping I did not make too much grammatical errors in that posting.

Jean

 

Just responded via email.

Sorry, everyone, for talking in class.

Back to our story...

 

Re: Law practice in Quebec LLB versus JD

That's an oversimplification of the history of it all -- with a decided Canadian flavor and overall spin, I notice -- but the way you've stated it is, as we sometimes say in the U.S., "close enough for government work."

Religion has done much the same thing, and for much the same general reasons. Most any mainstream denominational pastor who remembers the good ol' days when a Bachelor of Divinity (B.D.) could get one ordained will tell you that much of the modern MDiv at many institutions (not all, or even most, I suspect... but certainly alot of it) is pretty much undergraduate-level stuff. Some argue that a B.D. and then an MTh or a ThM would be about the same as an MDiv... and, in fact, one may actually be ordained in many mainstream denominations with credentials like that (though it's frowned upon).

In at least 49 states in the U.S., that would, generally, not be true (with California, generally, being the only possible exception... and, then, only if one enters a CalBar-registered, but not ABA-approved, bar-qualifying JD program with just an associates degree or 60 hours of transferrable credit or just selected CLEP exams, as is possible but not recommended in this state).

NOTE: Some other states allow one to get a JD without a bachelors first, but it's rare and usually associated with a situation wherein the applicant was so exceptional coming out of high school or after years of adult experience that an ABA-approved law school admitted him/her even without the bachelors degree; or its because a non-ABA-approved, but otherwise state-bar-approved law school admitted the applicant without a bachelors degree.

Tyically (and by that I mean in the vast majority of cases), before one may obtain one's J.D. in the U.S., one must have a full, four-year, accredited bachelors degree. That makes the J.D. a decidedly post-secondary credential -- more of a masters level credential, perhaps -- and not a bachelors level one as is the case with Canada's LLB.

While no one in the U.S. argues that the J.D. is above a bachelors degree, what many do argue about it is whether it's really a doctoral-level credential in any real sense; or whether, instead, it's just a masters-level credential in doctorate clothing. Additionally, many argue -- and I would agree with this -- that its certainly not an academic credential, in any case; and is, instead, a professional credential with a very narrowly focused professional applicability.

Most U.S. lawyers (JD holders) are uncomfortable being called "Doctor" unless, maybe (and "maybe" is the operative word, here), they're teaching at a law school... and even then, most don't like it. Most who really understand how it all works agree that the LLM (on top of the JD) would really be the lawyer's first true masters-level credential; and that said LLM degree would be academically "higher" than wouuld be a JD.

Further, to get a true doctoral-level law degree that might be on-par with, for example, a PhD, one would need to get an S.J.D. (after one gets one's LLM, or course); and many would argue that even an S.J.D. isn't really on-par with a PhD but, rather, is little more than a terminal professional credential for lawyers much like the DMin would be the same thing for ministers, pastors and priests.

For a total of five years of higher education at the secondary level.

A typical U.S. lawyer, on the other hand, would have a four-year bachelors degree (in pretty much whatever subject matter s/he liked) that would, academically, be on the exact same level as your LLB; then, on top of that, s/he'd have three additional years of law school (or four additional years if said law school is one of California's distance-learning, CalBar-approved, bar-qualifying institutions) to earn the J.D.; plus the bar exams (plus, in California, yet another bar exam that is referred to as the "Baby Bar" -- a miniature bar exam of sorts which California law students who are in non-ABA-approved, but CalBar-registered J.D. programs must take -- at the end of the law student's first year).

So... let's see... that all tallies-up to four years of secondary, and then three to four years of post-graduate education... for a total of seven to eight years of higher education at both the secondary and the post-graduate level for U.S. lawyers...

...compared with only five years of higher education -- and only at the secondary level -- for Canadian lawyers.

You didn't really think you were going to get away with your borderline condescending assessment of compulsary U.S. law studies (as compared with those of Canada) around here, did you? [grin]

Now, that's pretty cool!

Also cool!

Now, see... we need to be doing something like that around here! If we did then... um... hmm... let's see... holy crap... I'd be retired by now!

Good for you! Former prosecutors make good judges... and, to the surprise of many, are often not nearly as anti-defense as one would think they would be.

You did just fine... which, I dare say, is a whole lot friendlier of an assessment than French-speaking zealots from your neck of the woods tend to give English-only speakers. Tell your friends who are zero-tolerant of English just to make a point that they should remember that, as you've seen, it can cut both ways.

Sorry I got on may almost anti-Canada soap-box, there, for a moment... but some French language purist Quebecers, as I'm sure you know, can be insufferable -- ne, downright mean-spirited -- about the whole English thing. Since I had the floor for a second -- and since the subject had been broached -- I thought I'd briefly editorialize.

But I'm digressing, again, aren't I? Sorry.