Is ABET Hurting Distance Engineering Education?

Australia and the United Kingdom have several programs that are offering engineering studies in the electrical and electronics field.

Why is the American education system having a problem with delivering online post-graduate engineering education when other countries seem to be instituting engineering programs with very high standards and quality students?

The United States seems to be limiting the number of engineers produced through distance education at the bachelor degree level and is pre-occupied with lab requirements. I do not believe that the UK and Australia are ignoring lab work and I think we can learn a lesson on how they are obtaining success in overcoming this limitation.

 

I could be wrong about this, but I thought that the UK and Aussie programs required periods in resdedence to complete the lab work.

If so, we already have a couple of ABET programs that work the same way.

 

'Hurting' is probably the wrong word. I'd prefer to think of it as keeping distance engineering education honest.

I think that labs are tremendously important, and I would find an engineering degree without any labs to be almost as ridiculous as a biology degree that only requires passing a GRE and taking two unspecified lower division lab classes.

Sometimes discipline is necessary in order to keep DL from cutting so many corners that it becomes degree-mill quality. And discipline can hurt.

Having said that, ABET does seem open to non-traditional scheduling and/or off-site locations for lab classes, and doesn't seem at all opposed to offering the lecture portions of classes online.

But ultimately, the more labs and hands-on practical experiences a degree program requires, the harder it is to translate the program into a completely DL format.

 

ABET is not limiting but maintaining a high standard and quality for the Engineering industry.

I served as an ABET evaluator for a year 2001 -2002

Many of us volunteer for this activity (we serve on TAC at IEEE, NSPE etc)

My understanding is that ABET don’t fully bereave in remote / home labs.

Wile technology today allows for simulations and electronics labs at home this can't replace the advanced labs in the University settings and Technical Institutes.

So RA, DETC may accredit the program that uses home lab but not ABET.

ABET holding engineering in a higher respect and residential lab in University or Technical Institute setting is one such requirement.
Optics, Electro mechanics, mechanics and many others are hard to simulate at home.

Internships at Telco companies on Telecom switches such as G5EE huge size, Radar systems, etc may be partially substituting labs- so practically ABET is not limiting but maintaining a high standard and quality for the industry.

Today there are variety of simulation tools such as signal analyzers and digital analyzers , scopes etc that can be used on home PC’s so things are in favor for this in the near future

They could make a LAB requirements resedential wile other classes may be taken remotly via DL.
And actually they do this today.

Learner

 

I posted this

So RA, DETC may accredit the program that uses home lab but not ABET.

Actually they don't accredit programs they accredit schools so I meant to say that the school may be RA or DETC accredited.

ABET accredits Engineering and Technology programs.

 

Online Void

Nosborne48,

Please name ten fully approved ABET programs with a postgraduate online Electrical/Electronic Engineering Degree.

I did not say that lab was not important.

Let me put it another way Lerner:

Why are we so far behind foreign countries in the number of programs offering online postgraduate Electrical/Electronic engineering degrees?

They have quality programs why don't we?

 

Re: Online Void

1. Capitol College at http://www.capitol-college.edu

 

OH! I thought that the question concerned undergraduate engineering programs online.

There are a good many online Master's degree programs out there in various areas of engineering, many from state schools.

The only undgergrad D/L ABET programs I know of come from the University of North Dakota and Old Dominion in Virginia. There are also ABET engineering technology degrees at TESC, I think.

All of these programs require lab work in residence somewhere.

 

Some engineering disciplines are better suited for distance learning than others. Manufacturing engineering, industrial engineering, some specific areas of mechanical engineering could be perfectly studied on a distance basis. Other disciplines (e.g. electrical, nuclear, civil,...) simply cannot. Labs are an ESSENTIAL part of them.



Regards

 

Not the question.

Capitol College does not list an online postgraduate degree in engineering. It has a master degree listed.

I'm aware of the many Master Degrees online but the road block is occuring below this level. You must successfully complete a bachelors degree from an ABET institution before you are allowed to enter into these programs.

Your answer does not fullfill the criteria of the original question.

 

JLV,

I have often speculated about how the laboratory work for a D/L Nuclear Engineering degree might work.

You'd receive VERY heavy lab kits by parcel post...

The neighbors would have to be informed about the evacuation plan...

 

All you want is 10? That's easy:

1. University of Idaho
2. University of Florida
3. Mississippi State University
4. Columbia University
5. University of Southern California
6. UMass Amherst
7. University of Colorado at Boulder
8. Arizona State University
9. Stanford University
10. Southern Methodist University

The list goes on quite a bit further.

 

Humor

JoANN,

That list is humorous, and that is all.

Ok, I will make it easyer for you.

How about listing five ABET/EAC approved, online, Bachelor level, Electronic Engineer programs.

There is only one currently, I have been studying this for 6 years.

 

Re: Humor

You asked in your original post and repeated for "post graduate" programs. All of the programs in the list I provided offer graduate degrees in Electrical Engineering. If you were talking about programs at the Bachelor's level you should have at least said so, don't you think?

 

Undergraduate Level

Your right! Undergraduate level typo, sorry. This is so frustrating to me I'm flustered.

I mentioned an education road block below the Masters level in previous statements.

 

Can someone post a 100% DL Electronics Engineering degree from outside USA.

The degree has to be accredited by body on a level of IEE UKEC in UK regular royal Chartered accreditation may not apply, the same as RA or NA - ( California National University)

ABET overseas.

 

Foreign Engineers

Other countries don't have a road block in their online engineering education and they are producing more engineers. As a result, America is loosing it's competive edge.

I was reviewing some U.S. Federal Government surveys that have indicated we are importing more foreign engineers to meet our industry shortage of trained workers in the engineering fields.

If foreign engineering education is so inferior why do we keep hiring these workers?

 

Are the foreign engineers all graduates of DL programs.

I think majority will be traditional university or institute graduates.

There are no roadblocks.

UK raised their requirements to the level of Masters degree in Engineering in order to be qualified as CEng wile USA is still at BSEE degree level for PE registration.

FEANI is the same as UK CEng, their requirements are high as well.

Are we mixing apples and oranges?

We import engineers but we also export jobs.
The second one is more of a concern to me.


An increasing number of school districts across South Carolina are
incorporating an engineering program called "Project Lead the Way" into
school curriculums. The program focuses on making things like
catapults
and using computer programs to survey properties and design buildings.
Students who do well on the final test also earn college credit. The
program originated in New York in 1996, and has spread to more than
1,100
schools in 42 states. Eighty-two schools in South Carolina have added
the
program, giving the state the third-highest participation rate
nationwide,
behind New York and Indiana. Teacher Patrick Lyons is the supervisor of
the
program in York County, S.C., where it features six parts -- three
foundation courses, two specialization classes, and a concluding
capstone
section in which students work with local firms, says B.T. Martin, who
oversees the program for the entire state. Last year, the South
Carolina
State Department of Education issued $800,000 in grants for the
program.
Martin says the program is rigorous and relies on technology that will
"blow your mind." He also notes that the country is experiencing a
shortage of engineers, with many universities reporting dropout rates
of 50
percent to 60 percent among engineering students between the freshman
and
sophomore years. He believes guidance counselors are in prime position
to
steer students into courses that facilitate their career.
(http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/states/south_carolina/coun
ties/york/11225505.htm)


Learner

 

One more interesting reading

U.S. Could Lose Race for Nanotech Leadership, SIA Panel Says
Electronic News (03/16/05)

More investment in basic physical sciences is needed if the United
States
is going to maintain technological leadership in the nanotechnology
era,
according to semiconductor industry leaders. Intel CEO Craig Barrett,
leaders from the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), and Harvard
economist Dale Jorgenson called for increased government science and
education funding at an SIA-coordinated conference in Washington, D.C.
Over the past four decades, steady and rapid improvements in the
semiconductor industry have spawned new industries and radically
advanced
other ones. Falling chip prices have helped make other products more
functional and inexpensive, for instance. The entire IT-producing
industries of semiconductors, computers, software, and
telecommunications
equipment equal just 3 percent of U.S. gross domestic product, but are
responsible for a quarter of growth resurgence in the industry, said
Jorgenson. But the upcoming transition to quantum physics in
semiconductor
technology means the United States will have to coordinate investment
between industry, state, and federal governments if they are to
maintain
leadership. The SIA specifically called for a doubling of National
Science
Foundation research over the next 10 years, more money for
nanomanufacturing and nanometrology capabilities at the National
Institute
of Standards and Technology, and more money for the national Math and
Science Partnership education program.
(http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA511197.html)