Looking into Thomson Education Direct, Whould you Recommend?

Hi im new to distance learning but very interested in it. I’m looking at the Auto Tech. course at Thomson Education Direct. It is DECT accredited.

Basically I want to know completing the course, would an employer look at the certificate and just say it’s not worth anything or would it be as valuable as a Vocational Degree.

Here is what the school says about accreditation.

Please any help!!! Thanks

 

I have no experience with the Thomson Education Direct, but from looking over the Auto Tech program website, a few things jump out at me:

- the accreditation makes no mention of university-level accreditation status

- there is no mention of financial aid, which usually screams diploma mill to me

- my husband is an ASE certified mechanic; from what I know, this certification is what employers look for and this program does not seem to mention anything about ASE certification prep and I also wonder how it would be possible to complete a program of this nature online. To me, auto mechanics is something that is more suitable for a hands-on environment

- I am also wondering about the affiliation with Thomson Educational Publishing, as the logo on the websites are the same

Is this program intended to be at the high school/post high school level or on a university level?

You may also want to check into http://www.pct.edu/disteduc/degrees.html#BAM
They have an excellent reputation for technical degrees and are an affiliate of Penn State.

 

I know nothing about auto mechanics, but I do know that Thomson is by no means a diploma mill. They are accredited by DETC and MSA-CSS. And if I recall correctly, they hold candidacy status with MSA-CHE.

Thomson can't offer financial aid because of something called the 50% rule. Universities that offer degrees primarily via distance learning can only offer financial aid if they participate in the pilot program that allows them to get around the rule.

 

I took the paralegal program. The coursework was consistent with community college level difficulty. The staff was rather responsive and I have nothing negative to really say.

 

Here's the big picture!

First of all, good for you for seeing accreditation by an agency approved by the US Department of Education (USDE) and/or its Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) as essential. You cannot go wrong by requiring that minimum standard of whatever course or program you enter. Don't ever lower your standards in that regard.


As to your question, generally....

In the past, most automobile mechanics learned their trade through a three or four year apprenticeships at repair shops. The technological progress in the automotive field, however, has made formal post-secondary training programs a necessity. The best programs are usually taught at vocational schools or community colleges.

At a vocational school, the training lasts between six months and one year and tends to be very vocational and work-specific. The Education Direct program about which you've inquired is like that; and a mere vocational certificate or diploma (as opposed to a true "degree") is what you normally get from such programs.

A community college, on the other hand, spreads the training out over two years or so because courses in other subjects -- sometimes subjects that have nothing to do with automotive technology -- are typically required. During this instruction, students typically alternate six or twelve weeks of classroom learning with six or twelve weeks of working hands-on at a dealership or training facility. A certificate or diploma, as well as, possibly, an actual "degree," could result from training like this.


As to the specific course about which you inquired...

If you mean this program, then it's not a "degree." It's a diploma -- more along the lines of a post-high-school, pre-college certificate sort of thing. It's the sort of diploma or certificate that is offered by a local trade school of the type that tends to advertise on daytime television on local (as opposed to network-owned) TV stations in various cities. I'm not saying that's bad; I'm just trying to make sure you can clearly see what's what. Schools offering such training as this (in other words, Education Direct's competitors in this specific marketplace ) would include, just to name a few, Wyotech, Westwood College, UTI, NTI, Lincoln Tech, York Technical Institute, etc.

My personal favorite of the distance learning alternatives to Education Direct's program would be PCDI and its $789 Auto Mechanics program. Like Education Direct, PCDI is also DETC-accredited.

But all of these programs, by and large, are not "degree" programs but, rather, vocational certificate and/or diploma programs.

You should know that Education Direct also offers comprehensive (39 part) auto mechnic training as part of its Workforce Development (Industrial Training) program that may or may not interest you.

If you want an actual "degree," then this program you've asked about won't get you one. That doesn't mean it's bad; or that you shouldn't pursue it if it's what you're looking for. All I'm saying is that you need to make sure your eyes are wide open about what it is and what it isn't. If you're out of high school (or soon will be), then an associates degree is your next logical step if you want the schoolung to actually result in a bona fide "degree" and not just a training certificate or diploma of some kind.

Both Education Direct and PCDI offer true distance learning associates degree programs (see them here and here). Both are DETC-accredited; and they would really and truly be "degrees" as opposed to just vocational and/or career training certificates and/or diplomas of the type about which you initially inquired.


racechick8293's husband was correct about saying that ASE (National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence) certifications are most sought-after by employers; but it's wrong to think of an ASE certificate as being on the same level as, or as being the same type of training as, a vocational training certificate, diploma or degree. The vocational training at a program such as that about which you originally inquired would be your basic education; and then an ASE certificate would be something that someone with that kind of education would then go out an get -- on top of said education -- to demonstrate very specific kinds of knowhow in areas such as engines, drivetrain, brakes, suspension, body systems, etc.

Typically, an ASE certificate may not be obtained until one has at least two (2) years of on-the-job mechanics/technician experience. However, a year spent at a sufficiently good automotive training school can sometimes qualify as the first of those two required years-worth of on-the-job experience.

ASE certificated technicians are so attractive to employers (garages, auto mechanic shops, auto body shops, etc.) because so many of them have turned to ASE as a means of giving themselves some kind of objective third-party credibility. You see, shops affiliated with or that are physically located in manufacturer-speicifc new car auto dealerships tend to have manufacturer-trained technicians and managers. Some may also have ASE-trained technicians; but, with dealerships, manufacturer training tends to be the gold standard.

ASE fills that void for independent mechanic shops, garages, body shops, etc. which have no manufacturer affiliation. For the shop to be ASE certified, 75% of its counterpersons and mechanics must be ASE certified, and at least one employee must be certified in each specific area of service that the shop offers. To keep from falling below that 75% level, or from inadvertently allowing any department or service area to lose its required minimum one certified technician, independent shops routinely require ASE certification of all new hires.

An ASE certificate is obtained by exam. ASE offers a total of 36 different exams, grouped into specialties for passenger cars and light trucks, medium to heavy duty trucks, school busses, and collision repair. There are also specialized ASE certifications for engine machinists, alternative fuels technicians, and replacement parts specialists. An automotive technician can achieve the rank of Master ASE Automotive Repair Technician -- the most common certificate level; and the one most attractive to potential employers -- upon passing a total of eight (8) ASE-certification exams. No generalized automotive technician program such as that about which you initially inquired (including, probably, Education Direct's and/or PCDI's programs) would tend to offer such ASE exam-specific specialization -- though it would pay for you to inquire of them directly to find out for sure.

So, as you can see, ASE certification is not the same as getting an accredited, post-secondary, vocational certificate or diploma such as that about which you originally inquired. You'd want to get something like that, no matter what; then, on top of that training, you'd want to get your ASE certification(s).


Now, all that having been said, the two kinds of training -- ie., an independent, generalized auto mechanic/technician vocational training certificate such as that from Education Direct or PCDI on one hand; and specific ASE certificate exam-prep training on the other -- could potentially dovetail together and count as both...

As stated earlier, in order to become ASE certified, a technician must pass one exam and have worked in the industry for at least two years. As alluded to earlier, if the technician has completed a year of post-secondary technical education, then that year of education can also count toward the two-year minimum on-the-job-training ASE certification requirement. The education that one can receive from the post-secondary technical curricula at the well-known automotive training institutions (like Universal Technical Institute, Lincoln Tech, and Westwood, for example -- and possibly at Education Direct and/or PCDI) could satisfactorily prepare one for ASE exams.

To learn more about ASE training, generally, point your web browser at:

• http://www.asecert.org

If you'd like to really impress a potential employer, plus get yourself halfway to a full-blown, accredited bachelors degree:

1. Get the Education Direct or PCDI certificate or diploma and, using that, go to work for an auto mechanic shop as a non-ASE-certified technician; then,
   
2. while you're working, get an Associates Degree in Mechanical Engineering Technology; and then,
   
3. take the eight (8) ASE exams to become a Master ASE Automotive Repair Technician.[/list=1]Approach a potential employer with credentials like that, and you'll be running a department within the shop in no time!
   
   If, on top of that, you take your associates degree and add another 60 hours of accredited bachelors degree-level study and earn yourself a BA or BS in business administration, you'll be running the entire shop soon after that!

 

It's posts like DesElms that make this forum awesome. The fact that people here take the time to offer such detailed advice has always impressed me.

I can remember just three years ago when Levicoff offered a virtual dissertation in reponse to my questions about TESC. It was extremely helpful and now, here I am, MBA and at the top of my profession...largely thanks to people like DesElms and Levicoff. I'm not supposed to have accomplished much in my life...or so they said. This forum has helped me prove "them" wrong.

Sorry for the hijack but I couldn't resist.

4Q

 

We do the best we can!

Although it is my habit to try to make all my postings -- to the degree possible -- worth the read, in this case I happen to know alot about the subject because of the consulting I've done over the years to automobile dealerships and auto mechanic and body shops. One upon a time I worked for ADP Dealer Services Division implementing factory communications and dealership management control systems. From my general contacts in that arena I later developed many client contacts when, some years later, I started my own consulting firm. ASE certification is something I've helped more than one automotive service business to obtain (actually, "to leverage," might be a better way of putting it), so I happen to know a little something about both technician training, generally, and ASE certification, specifically, without my having had to do any research. So the posting, above, didn't take me as long as one might otherwise have thought it did.

One of whom has a great deal of respect for the other but, it would seem, not vice versa... for what that's worth.

Well, I wish I could claim more credit for that, but compared with folks like Levicoff, I'm not only a relative newbie here, but I'm using alot of their material (obtained here and elsewhere) much of the time. So thank people like Levicoff, Dr. Bear, Rich Douglas, Janko, Hayden, Tracey, Contreras, Pina, ... ohgod... it's like the academy awards: I shouldn't have even started listing 'cause there's both insufficient time and space to mention all the really good members here who, no doubt, have contributed to your success... me the least of them, to be sure.


While I still have the floor... I got a PM from someone (whom I will not name) whose questions really should have been asked here so that others may be helped by the answers; and also so that maybe someone who knows more than I do might chime-in, too. S/he wrote:

I think PCDI's delivery system is a bit better and more polished. Also, it has nothing more to offer about the subject than that one course; whereas Education Direct also has the other career development stuff that it hopes might interest people, too. Whenever that happens, one always has to wonder if Education Direct's course holds back. Let's not forget that these are private, for-profit enterprises (as opposed to not-for-profit community colleges). You must always assume their profit motive and the kinds of consumer manipulations that any private, for-profit corporation would exhibit. PCDI is for-profit, too... but since it offers nothing else in the automotive technician realm than the course I cited, it's likely that it gives all its got to that course.

Finally, I have some issues with Education Direct over completely unrelated stuff (that I won't go into here) that always makes me take whatever they say with something of a grain of salt. PCDI, on the other hand, while private and profit motivated, has always seemed more forthcoming (though there may be some Ashworth College students reading, here, who may chime-in and cite some PCDI/Ashworth negatives).

All that said, I believe that the two automotive technician courses are quite similar -- and nearly identically-priced, you might have noticed -- and one would probably not be shooting oneself in the foot no matter which one chose. After all, Education Direct and PCDI know that they're direct competitors and, therefore, each will make sure that their courses are competitive. Rather than worrying about which (between PCDI and Education Direct) is better, I'd be assessing, instead, whether you should be getting it via distance learning, or whether a more hands-on approach, such as racechick8293 suggested, might be in order.

I believe I wrote in my original posting that one needed to inquire of both institutions, directly, about whether completion of their programs would qualify the graduate for any specific kind of certification or licensure. In direct response to your question, I here strongly reiterate that recommendation.

I will say this, however: When it comes to certification or licensure, generally, never rely on the training provider's assertions one way or the other. Always go to the entity that issues said certificate or license and ask them what training they authorize or which they happen to know will adequately prepare one for their imprimatur.

So, with regard to automotive trainging and ASE, no matter what Education Direct or PCDI (or Wyotech, Westwood College, UTI, NTI, Lincoln Tech, York Technical Institute, etc.) tell you, I'd get it from the ASE people, either by visiting their web site and spending alot of time reading there, or by asking them to send you information, or by calling them.

Though I didn't quote what you said about it in your words, above, you've already seen, with your plumbing licensure question experience, how these private, for-profit trainers will sometimes say things that may not necessarily sync-up with what you're heard or read elsewhere or, most importantly, what is the unassailable truth. I'm not saying that they'll say whatever it takes to make the sale, but I'm saying it's probably close to something like that. For them, it's just a sale. For you, it's your future. You need to get the facts from authoritative sources and always take what training school salespeople say with the grain of salt it deserves.

Non-degree vocational training is always problematic and should be approached with caution. There are certainly good, reputable, useful and valuable programs out there. But daytime television and newspaper sports sections are rife with commercials from all manner of schools, training centers, "colleges" and "universities" that may or may not actually be credible. As with all educational opportunities talked about here, make sure they're legitimate and licensed and bonded and insured and, if possible, accredited. Double- and triple-check their advertising claims, and never take at face value their assertions about how and in what ways their training may be utilized. Ask around. Do Google searches. Talk to some graduates, if you can. Check with the Better Business Bureau.

One thing you can do is dedicate two or three weekday afternoons to doing some in-person research. Pick three big-name, manufacturer-affliliated (i.e., Ford, Buick, Toyota, etc.) automobile dealerships; and three large, and three small, independent automobile repair shops. Call each one first and find out the name of the service manager. Then get in your car and go cold-call said service managers. Tell them you know they're busy but as them if they'll please just give you five or ten minutes of their time... and to show your consideration, offer to make it at some other time and, if so, ask them when you can come back and sit down with them for a few minutes. If they ask why -- and they will -- tell them that you're not selling anything or looking for a job right now or anything like that, but that you most certainly hope to be working for them someday. Tell them you're struggling with what kind of training to get; that you have some ideas that you'd like to run past them; and then you'd like to know what kind of training they look for in the people they hire. Promise them that it will take no more than 15 minutes, and even offer to buy 'em lunch if that's what it takes.

You'd be amazed at how open and forthcoming they will be; and how much you'll learn.

Another person to talk to in those organizations is the "lead mechanic" -- an unofficial title in most places (although I've seen it in a few). This is usually some guy who's right in the thick of it out on the shop floor. He's hands, face and clothes are often the dirtiest (but his work area/bay is usually the cleanest), and he's visibly gung-ho about his job. Other mechanics call out to him and ask him questions; customers ask for him; the service manager runs things past him. Sometimes the best way to find him is to stand out on the asphalt and look at all the guys working in each of the bays or in the customer area, behind the yellow line, and just watch the guys work until you begin to see who's the one calling things out to the others and whom others ask to come over into their bay to look at something. Another way is to ask the guys at the parts counter who is the best, most well-thought-of mechanic on the floor... parts guys always know and, if their boss isn't around, won't hesitate to tell you.

Find that guy -- that "lead mechanic" sort of guy -- and offer to buy him a beer, and talk to him... about training, about certtification, about what it's like to work for his employer, about what it's like to be in that particular career, etc., etc., etc. By the time you make it to the ninth shop, you'll have acquired an entire education's-worth of useful -- albeit anectodal -- information on this subject.