Dr. -- MD, Ph.D and ED?

Hello all...

I am curious about the designation "Dr." I know those with medical degrees certainly deserved the right to be called Dr....but what about those with Ph.Ds and even those with a Doctorate in Management, Education or some other field? How many of you call yourselves "Dr. X" even though you do not have a medical degree? Just curious because since I have been considering a Doctorate in Education I have been noticing how people have been using the designation...mostly those without medical degrees. thanks.

 

Uh, hmm?

I started to answer this question but it seems so obvious I just can't write a response without sounding silly.
Sorry. Maybe... just think about it for a few minutes?

 

Yeah, I know this sounds pretty obvious but there are some people out there that believe that people with an ED.D for example should not call themselves "Dr. John Doe" but should instead be "John Doe, ED.D." I have also seen "Dr. John Doe, Ph.D" which sounds redundant. In any case, just curious about it.

 

Is there a "Doctor" in the house?

In my opinion, the title "Dr." indicates one who has demonstrated the highest level of academic competence in their field. It is a badge of honor to be displayed proudly. Of course there will always be those who have received a "Doctorate" via a diploma mill, so I guess you have to consider the individual and the degree-granting institution.

I'm sure that many non-MDs have indeed used their titles to gain certain social advantages. However, I see nothing wrong with it provided that the person is not masquerading as a physician.

 

You do not need to have a "medical degree" to have the desgination of Dr. John Doe.

My father has a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and use to be a professor at the University of New Hamshire. He holds the designation of Dr. and is well deserving of it (9 years of school).

As for ED.D or DBA's, I believe they too hold the same designation standard. Whether there called Dr. John Doe or John Doe, Ph.D, it means the same thing. It's just a different way of saying it.

 

I have a J.D., perhaps the least of the "doctorates", although with strong competition from the D.M., but I've even had people refer to me as "Doctor W------", and I tell them: "That's fine to call me that, so long as you recognize that in my field, the master's degree is higher than the doctorate, and the doctorate was until recent history considered a bachelor's".

Usually silences the "doctor" talk.

 

Remember that etymologically speaking, the word "doctor" implies nothing about the medical profession.

In Middle English it meant an expert or an authority.

The Latin docere, means "to teach."

 

Law School

Did you earn your J.D. traditionally? Or via distance learning?

 

I have a PhD in Education. I would never encourage others to refer to me as Dr outside of an academic context. I do not sign myself as Dr even in academe. Rather, I prefer the use of PhD as a suffix. I do call my academic cohorts Dr unless they ask me to do otherwise. I would not introduce them as Dr. in a casual, non-academic situation.

 

The use of the term "doctor" by academics predates its use by physicians.

I use the title where the use of such titles is appropriate. I am every bit as much a "doctor" as a physician.

 

I agree with everything Paul says.

 

With reference to use as a form of address and specifically in writing:

Dr. John Smith, PhD is never the socially acceptable form.

We use Dr. Smith in address and introduction; such as Dear Dr. Smith or Mr. Jones, this is my friend Dr. Smith which is often followed with something akin to an authority in Middle English Etymology

In writing where we refer to Dr. Smith (and in signature blocks) we use the form John Smith, PhD and often a positional title such as Assistant Professor of Etymology.

The use of Dr. in these cases is a courtesy title no different than Mr., Mrs., Miss, Ms., Messr., Prof., and is never properly used with the doctorate as a postnomial.

In effect, we have Dr. John Smith or John Smith, MD but not Dr. John Smith, MD.

It gets even more confusing when we have a serious of courtesy titles that need to be used. We never use Professor Doctor Smith pick whichever is appropriate.

Exceptions to the double courtesy use includes some military officers and certain clergy ie: Reverend Doctor Smith

It is simply convention and tradition that JD holders do not use the title Doctor and while many politicians hold a doctorate (often a JD) -- they too seem to have a tradition of non-use.

Social convention holds that the courtesy title Doctor is appropriate for use when referring to or addressing the holder of any degree at the level (not just an MD) but that the holder of the degree should probably not refer to himself as Dr. Smith unless in a professional setting where the use of the title is relevant to the activity at hand.

It is never proper usage to refer to yourself as John Smith, PhD in speaking -- only in writing. It is appropriate (and expected) to say the likes of Hi, I'm Professor Smith. I earned my PhD in Middle English Etymology from Harvard University in 1826... when such a self introduction is professionally relevant -- such as in a classroom setting.

 

Whew! Finally, someone got to the real question!

Thank you, Coach, for finally getting to the real question. If one carefully reads both the thread-starting post and the thread-starter's follow-up post, it becomes clear that this is a forms of address issue and little, if anything, more. The thread-starter, unfortunately, wasn't even quite sure what he was asking, though he did at least understand what specific pons asinorum he was trying to resolve... which became clear in said follow-up posting.

Broken down even more simply, jaymba, you must choose:

1. You can write Dr. John Doe; or,
   
2. You can write John Doe, PhD; but,
   
3. You can never write both Dr. John Doe, PhD.[/list=1]Simple as that.
   
   Next question.

 

Remember that etymologically speaking, the word "October" implies the eighth month.

I can't stand arguments from etymological authority.

 

Re: Whew! Finally, someone got to the real question!

The next question was:

"How many of you call yourselves "Dr. X" even though you do not have a medical degree? Just curious because since I have been considering a Doctorate in Education I have been noticing how people have been using the designation..."

 

The title "doctor" rightfully belongs to anyone who has completed a course of studies leading to a doctoral degree. The term
"doctor" is Latin for "teacher." The original doctorates offered by mediaeval universities were the Doctor of Law, the Doctor of Medicine, and the Doctor of Theology. Nowadays, those who possess the degree Doctor of Jurisprudence rarely use the style "doctor," perhaps because the degree used to be the Bachelor of Laws until the 1960s and because of prohibitions in the legal code of ethics. Unless, of course, that lawyer happens to have gone beyond the JD and earned first the LlM and then either the JSD, the LlD, or the PhD in Law. In the American context, most physicians were trained via the apprenticeship method up to the time of the Civil War. The first medical schools consisted of a two-year program in which the second year was basically a repeat of the first year. My suspicion is that the reason for the term "doctor" becoming virtually synonymous with "physician" is that most people's everyday contact with doctors is with physicians rather than with professors in mediaeval etymology, etc. With respect to your question re EdDs, I have it on the authority of a certain lightweight newspaper that the EdD is a lightweight doctorate.

 

Re: Re: Whew! Finally, someone got to the real question!

I almost never (never!) refer to myself as "Dr. Douglas." I leave that to others. About the only exception is when I introduce myself to students for the first time. But then I ask them to call me "Rich."

 

This has GOT to be the silliest topic we consider here yet it is endlessly interesting to us. We devote thread after thread to it, say exactly the same things every time, make no measureable progress whatever...

What IS it with us?

 

Re: Law School

Traditional as all get out, the whole nine yards, just like Nosborne. Now in saying this, I don't want to diminish the accomplishment of those who do a J.D. via distance, as that's probably a greater accomplishment than mine.

 

Jaymba: "Hello all...I am curious about the designation "Dr." I know those with medical degrees certainly deserved the right to be called Dr....but what about those with Ph.Ds and even those with a Doctorate in Management, Education or some other field? How many of you call yourselves "Dr. X" even though you do not have a medical degree? Just curious because since I have been considering a Doctorate in Education I have been noticing how people have been using the designation...mostly those without medical degrees. thanks."



Cehi: A good question, I think. I need your help. How did get the impression that only a medical doctor can be called a doctor? I believe that the "doctor" title can be used by anyone who has earned a MD, PHD, DM, EDD, DBA, DA, PharmD, etc., degrees as the highest degree in their chosen field. The "doctor" is just a generic title.

An MD is the highest degree in medical education. A person who earned an MD degree is a physician as far as I am concerned. A person who earned a Ph.D. in sociology is a sociologist. Both earned a doctor of something. Hence, I think they should be called a doctor. A physician with an MD degree has a doctor of medicine degree. A sociologist with a Ph.D. degree has a doctor of philosophy in a subject within sociology. Thank you.