Excelsior College and AARTS?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Delta, Mar 28, 2005.

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  1. Delta

    Delta Active Member

  2. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    Most simply, yes.

    Excelsior will award credit for service schools on your AARTS transcript with little or no difference from the recs. of ACE.

    They award MOS credit is some instances but not others. It would appear that they will not award MOS credit for DMOS at all, but will award for PMOS at the awarded PMOS skill level.

    AARTS will send you transcript to Excelsior electronically -- big advantage for timing.

    Most B&Ms will award credit off of that AARTS transcript as well... :D
     
  3. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    ...

    Is DMOS Duty MOS?

    Thanks for the info!
     
  4. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    For those not familiar:

    PMOS is Primary Military Occupatinal Specialty. This is the occupational group that a serviceman has been trained to work in and where he is expected to be most proficient. He should be "fully qualified" to serve in this specialty.

    SMOS is Secondary Military Occupational Specialty. Often a PMOS previously held but as often a secondary area of occupational expertise.

    AMOS is Additional Military Occupational Specialty. Most often previously awarded primary and secondary MOS which the service member no longer works in but for which he remains qualified.

    DMOS is Duty Military Occupational Specialty. This is the occupational specialty that the servicemember is/was actually assigned to and the level at which he performed. It may or may not be related to the PMOS and the service member may or may not be fully qualified to perform the duties as assigned.

    ------

    An example - During the first Gulf War ('91), my PMOS was 02G20, Flute and Piccolo Senior Player (a musician), my SMOS was also in the band, and my AMOS was 71L20 Administrative Specialist.

    I was in a promotable status (due to be promoted) as a 02G20 when I deployed to the Gulf. My DMOS before leaving for the Gulf was 02G30, Flute and Piccolo Section Leader.

    On arrival in the Gulf I was assigned to a transportation Bn. as an 88M30 (Motor Transport Operator - Squad Leader). This because I held a commercial driver's license to operate tractor-trailer tanker and hazardous materials trucks as well as an endorsement for class B passengers (bus).

    I was "fully qualified" to serve as a Flute and Piccolo Player. I was "adequately prepared" to serve as a Flute and Piccolo Section Leader. I was actually assigned as a Squad Leader in a Heavy Truck platoon but not militarily qualified for that assignment (in that it was not an awarded MOS and I had not been Army school trained for the job).

    My Basic NCO Course was for 11B30 (Infantry NCO).

    All of these MOS specifications are listed on my AARTS transcript. It might make sense for a college to award credit based on the job I actually did (DMOS of 88M30) but most will only award credit based on the MOS for which I was "fully qualified" (in my case 02G20). There can be a HUGE credit difference depending on which way they award credit...

    :)
     
  5. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    ...

    Thanks for the breakdown!
     
  6. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    After asking an academic advisor at Excelsior about this idea of awarding credit for PMOS but not for DMOS I was asked to provide an NCOER for each of my DMOS during my terms of service and they will consider them.

    If it proves fruitful it will add some 30+ hours of credit to my portfolio. :)

    Interestingly, this came as a direct result of my asking why one of my PMOS wasn't represented on my evaluation. We were also discussing why I thought some hours should be considered duplicative and not included (fair is fair) :)

    So, remember to ask questions from time-to-time and you may add some hours to your evaluation.

    I'll post on this again once I hear a decision.... :cool:
     
  7. marcuscarey

    marcuscarey New Member

    They will accept all credits unless they are vocational credits.
     
  8. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    That's a bit misleading and an oversimplification.

    In my case "accept all credits" means 225 semester hours for a 120 hour degree.

    In fact, they have refused to accept credits posted on the AARTS for those specifications which were "duty MOS" without further documentation in the form of an NCOER. What we're learning right now is that there may be exceptions available when pressed.

    They also do not "accept all credits" from the ACE recomendation for basic combat training. This because they accept no PE activity credit from anywhere.

    They will not "accept all credits" where duplication of credit exists or where that credit creates an overage in freshman composition or computer applications; each having specific limits.

    It seems much of this is "gray area" that is yet to be fully explored...

    I'd like to hear from folks who had DMOS specifications on their AARTS accepted for credit and if any hoops were required. I've already heard on this forum from many who had DMOS specifications declined.
     
  9. dualrated2

    dualrated2 New Member

    When I questioned why my duty MOS was not credited, Excelsior pointed out that the AARTS transcript did not show a date for it. They asked for either a copy of the NCOER or a DA 20 showing duty performed. It was a 50 level MOS so I pursued it. I had copies of that NCOER plus one other that was not on AARTS at all. I sent both and got full credit for both with the exception of any duplicate credit.
     
  10. marcuscarey

    marcuscarey New Member

    From my experience, Excelsior excepts all ACE credits. That's the truth. As a former sailor they took all (except for 1 credit for PE boot camp) credits from my SMART transcript (the Navy equivalent the AARTS). Whether they apply or not to a degree program and will appear on a transcript is totally different discussion.

    Good Luck!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2005
  11. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    Do SMART transcripts include recommendations for schools and MOS/Rating?

    Do Navy folk have the same thing Army folk do where an MOS is posted on record according to the duty assignment instead of the actual primary specialty?

    Example:
    If a Navy CTA1 is in a billet for a YNC does his SMART transcript and service record show him as a YNC.

    (That's actually an example from my experience in a joint service command. CTs are some way-bright individuals...)
     
  12. RobbCD

    RobbCD New Member

    Navy Smart

    Navy Smart transcripts will give ACE recomendations for your schools and your rate (SN, HM3, HM1, HMC, etc), but not for billets. If you are an HM1 in a HMC billet, you are ACE recomended for HM "A" and "C" schools and for your rate (HM1) but not for the more senior billet.
     
  13. marcuscarey

    marcuscarey New Member

    I'm a former CTO. It seems like it would be possible to attain credits for a billet filled in the USN. I say this because I have NEC (Navy Enlisted Code) based on a billet I filled. I never attended the "C" school, however this "specialty" appears on my SMART. I must have been assigned the NEC because of a billet I filled. If the NEC were ACE accredited I would be granted credits for them.

    In short, if you earn a NEC by filling a billet or otherwise, it is probably worth credit. So if the CTA1 earned a NEC or something of that nature, it is possible to get credits for it. CTAs and YNs are basically the same thing so it probably wouldn't matter because of duplicate credits.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2005
  14. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    So there's one distinction between Army and Navy credit recommendations.

    If your Army DMOS (billet in the Navy) is listed in your records jacket then you will be transcripted for that specification as well. So if you're an E6 (91B30) Army medic (equiv. to HM1) and you are billetted to an E7 (91B40) medic job (equiv. HMC) then your AARTS transcript will show the ACE credit for E7 91B40 and E6 91B30.

    It would appear that Excelsior will initially award credit for the actual primary MOS (in this case 91B30) and will require additional documentation for the DMOS (billet). The differences can be extreme at the level of E6 and above and often includes upper-level credit.

    What I and some others are trying to learn is the ease at which credit will be awarded at that higher level vs the lower actual MOS/rate.
     
  15. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    But, there is a difference between a CTA1 and a YNC in ACE recommendations. This is where the questions seem to come up...

    Should the servicemember get credit for the CTA1 he actually held or the YNC he actually did?
     
  16. marcuscarey

    marcuscarey New Member

    If it were up to me "YES".
     
  17. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    Without discussion of "should" or "would be nice" -- here's the real example from my case:

    Excelsior awarded credit immediately for all earned PMOS at the actual awarded skill level according to the AARTS transcript. They also awarded credit for service schools based on the AARTS recommendation.

    In the initial evaluation, they did not award for DMOS at any skill level.

    After asking for clarification: I was asked to submit NCOERs for the DMOS. I only have one such NCOER that would impact my credit award and that was 88M30 (motor transport operator). I did not ever hold an 88M PMOS or SMOS so this was a new area for credit.

    I submitted that NCOER and Excelsior awarded credit according to the ACE/AARTS on further evaluation. The result was an additional 12 hours of credit (all "applied professional - lower level) in the BS-LS program.

    If I could find an NCOER for my time at 71L3P then we could add a few more hours but they're not very usefull.

    Total credit awarded for military courses and experience now on my transcript at Excelsior is:

    MOS = 27 hours
    Schools = 11 hours
    duplicated = 5 hours

    actually used is 38 hours -- possible was 43 hours. At $250 per semester hour, a savings of $10,750.00 (and a year and a half of classes)

    I now have 164.99 semester hours completed and posted to the Excelsior record. :) and not done yet.... I need 9 hours upper and that information lit. thing to finish. Not that I'm in an hurry...
     
  18. dualrated2

    dualrated2 New Member

    Are you sure that 71 Lima MOS won't have any upper level credit you might be able to use?
     
  19. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    71L30 would give me...


    That's a relative minimal difference from 71L20 which I have received credit for:

    Note the diffrence is "field experience", "office management", and "personnel subervision" -- but none are upper level. And an additional hour in "business communication" but that one is duplicative already...

    In my case, the "computer apps" is duplicative so that's a loss from either one. So, we're really looking at only 9 hours and they're "applied professional" -- exactly where I don't need any more hours :) That said, I will submit the NCOER if I can find it -- it's 9 hours of what appears to be management coursework.

    Timing of service becomes an issue here. My 88M30 DMOS would have given 3 hours upper level had I worked in it only a couple years later...
     

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