How to recover my two years worth of studies (from 1994 to 1996)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by dis.funk.sh.null, Mar 27, 2005.

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  1. dis.funk.sh.null

    dis.funk.sh.null New Member

    Hi guys,

    First off, I would like to thank everyone on this forum for the help they have provided! It was through this forum that I discovered Aspen University, and am about to complete my MBA! I have completed all of my courses, exam and am half way through my capstone project.

    Following this, I needed your advice on a similar matter. Maybe this forum can help me out yet again.

    I had moved with my family to Canada in 1996. At that time I had completed the first two years of a bachelors degree in Civil Engineering from NED University of Engineering and Technology, Karachi, Pakistan.

    When I got to North America, I was not given any credit for the two years of my degree program I had completed back in Pakistan: I did not receive any diploma or certificate and wasn't given any advanced standing whatsoever. It turned me off so much so that I changed my major. I still feel deprived when I recall that experience.

    My question is, would any school - such as Excelsior - be willing to take those credits (inferring my capabilities from my studies at McMaster: BEng and MASc in Electrical Engineering, and Aspen: MBA) to translate those two years of mine into some kind of a credential? I know I have too many degrees as it is, but why should I let go of all that hard work as if I spent those two years in confinement... Do you see what I am trying to get at?

    Would be grateful for any suggestions.

    Regrads,
    Mahmood
     
  2. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    << I had completed the first two years of a bachelors degree in Civil Engineering from NED University of Engineering and Technology, Karachi, Pakistan...My question is, would any school - such as Excelsior - be willing to take those credits (inferring my capabilities from my studies at McMaster: BEng and MASc in Electrical Engineering, and Aspen: MBA) to translate those two years of mine into some kind of a credential? >>

    Presumably you want some kind of accredited credential in Civil Engineering. Your chances are not good.

    Some US and Canadian schools offer a 2-year associate's degree in Civil Engineering Technology. You might possibly be allowed to use your NED coursework to get credit towards such a degree. However, you indicated that McMaster wouldn't accept your NED coursework, for whatever reason. It therefore seems possible that other schools may not accept it either.

    Furthermore, note that an AS degree in Civil Engineering Technology would be much less valuable than your other degrees. Typically people with AS degrees do junior-level work, such as field inspection or drafting. If you have a bachelor's degree and two master's degrees, then adding an associate's degree is not really going to enhance your resume.

    In the US, degrees in engineering and engineering technology are accredited by ABET, a consortium of engineering societies (www.abet.org). The requirements for ABET accreditation are rigorous; in general, ABET degrees are only available through conventional study, not through distance learning or work experience. For this reason, reputable schools like Excelsior or Charter Oak or Thomas Edison State typically don't offer engineering or engineering technology degrees.

    I assume that you want an accredited credential. There are, of course, unaccredited "universities" in the US that would gladly grant you a civil engineering degree based on your education and experience. However, a questionable degree from an unaccredited school could actually hurt, rather than enhance, your resume.
     
  3. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    Not really on the subject, but I'm still trying to mentally recover my three years of school from 1991-94 (law school). Seems lost in a haze.
     
  4. dis.funk.sh.null

    dis.funk.sh.null New Member

    Policies of the Universitites of Ontario changed somewhere around 2001, once I graduated with my BEng, to grant credit for higher education from Pakistan... it was too late for me because I had already completed 4 years of education at McMaster. Still ticks me off a bit when I think of it, especially since I was forced to complete grade 13 from a darn highschool; so I have actually lost 3 years not two, including the downgrading to go back to highschool. To be candid, I should be way above this grudge, and shouldn't even be worried since I made up for lost time by working and studying at the same time: I've virtually been on nitrofor the past 7 years, and finally am in a position to slow down. But I was only wondering what if...

    Well it certainly helps a bit to gain perspective for me that there are others too who've been through a similar situation... Thankyou for sharing really!
     
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    The bottom line is that your coursework at NED represents partial fulfillment of the requirements for a bachelor's degree in civil engineering. So the most that you can realistically expect from a North American school is recognition that you have completed some of the requirements towards such a degree. That's all that you would get if you returned to Pakistan and re-enrolled at NED, right?

    Apparently you got zero recognition for your NED coursework from McMaster. You might have better luck with a US university, if your NED coursework was evaluated and approved by ECEI (www.ecei.org). As noted previously, US engineering programs are accredited by ABET; however, ABET also runs a service called ECEI, which evaluates foreign education to see if it is ABET-equivalent. You could submit your NED transcripts to ECEI, pay several hundred dollars, and get their written evaluation.

    If you're lucky (no guarantees), ECEI will certify your NED coursework as equivalent to two years of ABET civil engineering coursework. There is a good chance (but again, no guarantees) that a US engineering program would accept ECEI's evaluation, and recognize that you have completed some of the requirements for a bachelor's degree in civil engineering.

    There is no obvious value in getting an ECEI evaluation, unless you think that someday you might want to re-enroll in a US university to complete a bachelor's degree in civil engineering.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2005
  6. MikeB

    MikeB New Member

    A questions for CalDog

    I note that TESC does offer engineering technology degrees, Excelsior has a number of engineering technology/technology degrees, and COSC offers engineering studies concentrations.

    TESC does offer a BSAST in Civil Engineering Technology, so I am wondering if in fact there is some value in obtaining this engineering technology degree. Yes, no?

    Agreed that it is not ABET certified but if it helps Mahmood use his hours of study why not?
     
  7. ybfjax

    ybfjax New Member

    Re: A questions for CalDog

    Excelsior does offer Engineering degrees that are ABET accredited. The other two do not (that I know of yet).

    Your credits still have to be reviewed by ABET before the degree can be conferred.
     
  8. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    OK, I need to revisit my previous statement regarding ABET-accredited degrees at Excelsior, COSC, and TESC.

    According to the list at www.abet.org, none of these schools offers an ABET-accredited bachelor's degree in engineering (as opposed to "engineering technology"). My understanding is that only one school (the University of North Dakota) offers an ABET engineering degree through distance learning (and even then, you have to visit the UND campus in the summer to fulfill the lab requirements).

    Excelsior does offer two ABET-accredited bachelor's degrees in engineering technology (electronics and nuclear). The engineering technology and "engineering studies" degrees at COSC and TESC are apparently not ABET-accredited.

    TESC offers an "Associate of Science in Applied Science and Technology" degree in "Civil/Construction Engineering Technology". The requirements are listed at http://www.tesc.edu/prospective/undergraduate/degree/asast/asast_civil_constr_enginer.pdf . It does seem like most of these courses would be covered during the first two years of a typical civil engineering curriculum. So it might be possible for Mahmood to qualify for this ASAST degree relatively easily.

    TESC also offers a "Bachelor of Science in Applied Science and Technology" degree in "Civil Engineering Technology", but obviously more coursework is required.

    In the US, engineering technology degrees are less valuable than engineering degrees, associate's degrees are less valuable than bachelor's degrees, and non-ABET degrees are less valuable than ABET degrees. So a non-ABET associate's degree in engineering technology, like the TESC ASAST, is not going to be a huge resume booster. But it's a legitimate degree, and it may be worthwhile for Mahmood to pursue it, if he can convince TESC that he has already fulfilled most or all of requirements through previous coursework.
     
  9. MikeB

    MikeB New Member

    I find this discussion very interesting as I am in a similar situation as Mahmood. Similar but different – similar in that we both have engineering credits that have not been used in/for a degree, but different in that my engineering credits (40 hrs in mechanical engineering) where earned from ABET schools. I have struggled with the fact that none of my hours have counted for anything. I am seriously considering the BSAST Mechanical Engineering Technology degree from TESC. But I struggle with the value of the degree. For me in my situation, I think it is the right thing to do.
     
  10. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Mahmood,

    I recommend examining portfolio options to maximize your potential from the classes. Especially if you have saved any old syllabi or course materials.

    Mike,

    if your credits are less than 10 years old you might want to talk to the University of Alabama. They have a remote BSME in Dothan, AL but offer some courses online. You may be able to work with them towards finishing your degree. You might also want to go to www.geteducated.com and download the technical school freebie.

    Good luck,

    Kevin

    ( a guy with over 70 excess undergrad credits never used towards another undergrad)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2005
  11. MikeB

    MikeB New Member

    Kevin thanks for the lead.

    I checked out UA Dothan through the Southern Regional Education Board - Electronic Resource. But the UA program is really dedicated toward Alabama residences and I am not sure that they would welcome a Texan :). But that being said three years ago the University of North Dakota distance engineering program would not allow out of state applicants, but they do today. So maybe things will change in the future.

    My problem is that I have all but my senior year of my mechanical engineering program and I cannot find a program that will allow me to finish in a reasonable amount of time. I have looked at my local university, University of Houston, but they do not have all the classes that I need during the time need them, evening classes. If you look at UND and their future classes there are only 2 or 3 classes that are dedicated to the ME program, it would take me 8 to 10 years to finish. At that rate I would never finish my ABET ME degree.

    I have already spent 18 years pursuing my ME degree at the traditional B&M route with no conclusion. That is why I went to UoP and obtained by BSB Marketing. Time is growing short and I have to cut my losses so that is why I think the TESC Mechanical Engineering Technology degree is the right course as I am only 3 course short of the degree.

    Or I should move onto my graduate level studies?

    By the way I love your tag line. :)
     
  12. dis.funk.sh.null

    dis.funk.sh.null New Member

    Yeah! I won't complain again Kevin :) Thankyou so much for sharing!
     
  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    MikeB -

    The forums here at Degreeinfo.com are obviously focused on academic credentials. But in engineering, you can also pursue credentials through an alternative route -- the state licensure process. The value of licensure depends on your circumstances, but in many cases an "EIT" after your name will count for as much as a "BS", and a "PE" is even better.

    Every state has different rules, but in some cases you don't need the BS to apply for the EIT, or even the PE. California, for example, will let you take the EIT exam after 3 years of work experience, and the PE exam after 6 years of work experience, even without a degree of any kind. The experience requirements are lower if you have a degree; however, California will grant partial experience credit for enrollment in an ABET degree program, even if you didn't graduate.

    Don't know if licensure makes sense given your employment situation and state laws, but it's something to consider.
     
  14. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Mike,

    UA doesn't have a campus in Dothan, they have a traveling road show of sorts. I wouldn't write it off until you call the chair of the engineering department at the main campus (Tuscaloosa). I say this because a friend of mine (almost 60 years old) finsihed all but his senior year on a BSEE (1970ish) before family responsibilities caught up with him. I convinced him to call the school and they are working with him via independent study and other means to finish that degree. You have finished a lot of lab work so I would call.

    As for allowing Texans, well we have always viewed Texas as sort of west Alabama. :D so Ya'll come....

    By the way do you know the difference between a Texas armadillo and an Alabama armadillo? The tire tracks.....

    Kevin
     
  15. dis.funk.sh.null

    dis.funk.sh.null New Member

    CalDog,

    My Electrical Engineering degrees are equivalent to ABET accr. degrees in the USA. So in that sense I do not really need an associates or even a certificate in civil engineering really; Civil Engineering Technology would do. I just want "justice" lolz :)

    Guys, how much would it cost me in getting credit equivalent from COSC or TESC? Are there other non-ABET but otherwise accredited schools that would be able to tak those credits?

    I am really appreciative of the response everyone has given me.

    Thanks
     
  16. MikeB

    MikeB New Member

    I think the addition of a PE to a TESC BSAST degree would be of value.

    In Texas the PE requirements state that:

    "2) A non-accredited degree as described in subparagraphs A & B of this paragraph:

    A) A Bachelor's degree in engineering technology from a TAC/ABET accredited program.
    B) A Bachelor's or graduate degree in mathematical, physical, or engineering science approved by the Board of Professional Engineers.
    All degrees or combination of degrees must have at least:

    • 8 hours of math beyond trigonometry (courses such as calculus and differential equations) and,
    • 20 hours of engineering sciences (courses such as mechanics, thermodynamics, electrical & electronic circuits, materials science, transport phenomena, computer engineering, etc.)"

    I believe that TESC BSAST requirements meet or exceed the above. Unfortunately the Texas PE board requires 8 years of experience, without a ABET degree, before you can take the PE test. But that being said I think that it would be worth while taking the EIT and combining it with the BSAST degree from TESC.
     
  17. MikeB

    MikeB New Member

    Kevin,

    Thanks for the info. If I decide not to go onto TESC for the BSAST MET degree I will give UA a call.

    And we would welcome Alabama into the Texas Union anytime ;).
     

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