Univ of Alabama thumbs nose at DL

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by lcgreen, Mar 10, 2005.

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  1. lcgreen

    lcgreen New Member

    I recently applied to the University of Alabama's graduate school for admission to their Master of Science in Human & Environmental Science degree program. After weeks without receipt of an admissions decision, I gave them a call requesting the status of my application. I was told in the most friendly southern “see sesh” tone of voice that I had been “wait listed” and required to take the MAT or GRE due to my recalculated GPA of 2.8. Excuse me? According to my EC transcript I have a 3.39 GPA, comfortably above the U of A’s required 3.0. But, ah ha! The plot thickens! According to the department chairperson, EC, TECEP, Dantes, and CLEP, grades are not added to the GPA recipe and are not considered “graded coursework”. They (UA admissions) also use pluses and minus in the GPA calculation, which EC does not. Sooooooo, those B-‘s I received are worth 2.75, not 3.00…hmmmm.

    Ironically, the U of A degree program for which I applied is a non-traditional, EXTENDED DEGREE!!!

    Now, after requesting 6 official transcripts from “previously attended institutions”, 25.00 application fee, 3 letters of recommendation, and weeks of waiting, I have a decision to make. Do I continue to tap dance and acquiesce to their “moving target” admission requirements or simply go elsewhere?

    Any thoughts, distance-learning community?
     
  2. agilham

    agilham New Member

    Yeah, take your ability and your money to somewhere that will appreciate you.

    Quite frankly, if somebody looked at my grades and said "oh, that isn't really a 2:1, despite what your degree certificate says" I would be insulted, offended and wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

    Angela
     
  3. jugador

    jugador New Member

    Wait a minute. None of that stuff is DL. According to their website, they accept 32 SHs of RA DL credits. That's very generous. I've never seen any RA school before that accepts more than 30. In fact, the university itself has a substantial distance education program.
     
  4. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    It won't hurt you to take the GRE. I'm surprised that you haven't already done so.

    I kind of suspect that you applied to this particular program because it otherwise meets your needs. Don't let the administrative foolishness get in the way of your goal.

    Just grin and DO IT.
     
  5. Thoraldus Strivlyn

    Thoraldus Strivlyn New Member

    Angela, what is a 2:1?----Jim
     
  6. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Find out if a decent score on the GRE is all that is needed for admission at this point, what that score is and then go prep for it. Don't complain; get busy. Best of luck to you.

    Dave
     
  7. agilham

    agilham New Member

    Anywhere between a 3.3 and a 3.8 on a 4 point scale, depending on which conversion chart you're using this week and which university you're talking to!

    Seriously, it's the second best undergraduate degree classification in the UK. We classify our undergraduate degrees as follows: 1 (or first), 2:1 (upper second class or two one), 2:2 (lower second class), 3 (third), pass and fail.

    However, the thought that anybody could look at my transcript and re-arrange the grades to say something that my undergraduate university didn't say is a complete non-starter in the UK.

    Angela
     
  8. marilynd

    marilynd New Member

    I don't know the particular school or department, but I do know the process well enough. They are looking for equivalencies. They set standards for admission. When confronted with a transcript that contains credits they are unfamiliar with or from schools they are unfamiliar with or have some question about, they make adjustments to ascertain in their minds whether the standards of admission have been met. They are not ". . . re-arranging the grades to say something that my undergraduate university didn't say . . ." Rather, they are determining in their own minds whether what the transcript does say meets their admissions standards. They set the standards. They get to decide.

    UK schools do this when evaluating credentials from US schools all the time, not just a GPA conversion, but also based on what school the credentials come from. Likewise, US schools do the same. All schools are not equal, nor are transcripts.

    My decision on whether to jump through the GRE hoop would depend on how important the school and program were to me. If this is THE program for me, I'd jump through the hoop. It's not so onerous. If, on the other hand, this is just one of a number of otherwise equal possibilities, then I might go elsewhere. Some administrations are easier to deal with than others. I might wonder whether I am going to continue to have problems with the administrators if they are questioning my competence now. It bears thinking about.

    :)

    marilynd
     
  9. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    When's Alabama?
     
  10. roy maybery

    roy maybery New Member

    2:1 (Upper Second)

    To put the 2:1 (upper second) in perspective. When I graduated from Leicester with an upper second, someone in our department (archaeology) got a 'first' as did someone in politics this was the first 'first' in 20 years in archaeology and the first 'first' in politics ever or so I was informed. People were rubbing thair hands and talking of declining standards at Leicester
    Roy Maybery
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2005
  11. Fortunato

    Fortunato Member

    Most schools look at credit-by-exam this way. Excelsior is one of very few schools that assign letter grades to credit-by-exam programs, and it's well within Alabama's prerogative to recalculate your GPA. The plus/minus thing is annoying, because some schools don't report plus/minus at all, but unless you're really unlucky, you had some B+ grades on your transcript to average things out.

    If I were in your shoes, I'd take the GRE. It doesn't sound like Alabama is discriminating against DL, it sounds like they want to make sure you're going to succeed in their graduate program before they admit you. You've already proven that you can use standardized testing to your advantage in furthering your education. What's one more test?
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Angela,

    Then my magna cum laude B.A. is a 2:1

    Maybe that's why the University of London wanted to klnow all about my B.A. record as well as my J.D. record.

    It might be a good thing, really, since my J.D. grades JUST BARELY exceeded 3.0

    American J.D. programs, especially state ones, are fiercely competitive just to get into. Once you are there, you realize that ALL of your classmates took their undergrad degrees with honors. Where you were all once "top ten per cent", now ninety per cent will NOT be!

    Humbling. That's what it is; humbling.
     
  13. lcgreen

    lcgreen New Member

    I was interested in the U of A because of thier asynchronous degree program. And, after reading the various responses to my initial post, I have decided to look elsewhere.

    I realize it's thier prerogative to apply admissions standards as they see fit. However, it is mine to reject what I feel are "bait and switch", misleading admission requirements. Had I known that my EC degree and GPA would not be accepted according the schools own published criteria, I would not have wasted the $25 application fee, along with cost of forwarding a multitude of transcripts, and a carefully crafted personal statement.

    It's like seeing a computer advertised at BestBuy for $500. Then, when I get to the store to purchase it, they tell me that my $500, because I earned it at GM instead of IBM is only worth $450.
     
  14. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Good for you. East side?
     
  15. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Roy Mayberry: "People were rubbing thair hands and talking of declining standards at Leicester"

    John: I wonder what sort of grades C. P. Snow got, when he attended Leicester? I believe he earned one of their first Master's degrees. Maybe it was all downhill from there.
     
  16. agilham

    agilham New Member

    Re: 2:1 (Upper Second)

    Sounds hideously familiar. Politics at Warwick awarded its first ever first five years after I graduated. By the time I stopped receiving the newsletter some time in 1992 (seven years after graduation), history still hadn't awarded a first.

    Alas, since those more austere days, firsts and 2:1s have gone from being less than a third of all degrees awarded nationally to over half . . . and in the same time, the number of students has trebled. Can we say "grade inflation"?

    Angela
     
  17. lcgreen

    lcgreen New Member

    West Side, Uncle Janko! I was going to move to Atlanta, but I think Canton will do. :D
     
  18. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    At least yours were barely over, mine were barely under 3.0, even though I graduated in the top-half (barely) of my class from what was then a top-30 or top-40ish school. I was Magna in UG as well, kicked on the LSAT, thought law school would be just another step in that progression. BOY WAS I SURPRISED! It seemed that about 1/3 of my friends there were high school valedictorians, every last one of them was an honors graduate in UG, one friend was even straight 4.0 in UG (BTW-he did a cool 2.0 his first year in law!)

    Forced law school curves are worthy of being shredded and used to line birdcages.
     
  19. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Yup. Humbling.
     
  20. marilynd

    marilynd New Member

    lcgreen:

    Good luck in your hunt. I'm sure that you will find a program that meets your needs.

    I'm not sure I would consider this bait-on-switch. Every program is going to evaluate credentials coming into them. Without knowing your transcript, it also may be that their concern is not so much regarding DL as such but rather the number of credits-by-exam.

    :)

    marilynd
     

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