hey guys, i just had a question regarding distance learning JDs. many of the d/l schools offer non-bar JD programs. this interests me because i do not want to practice law but like to learn it. my question is, would i still need to take the first year examination required for non california approved schools in order to continue law school or not because the program is not meant for a student who can take the bar? thanks heno
i know some schools have a non bar option, that is why i am asking if i still have to take the first year examination required for unaccredited schools. does anyone know? heno
Heno, welcome to the board. I don't believe that you would still have to take the baby-bar if you are involved in a non-bar three year program. I don't "know" that you wouldn't, but there would seem no reason since you wouldn't qualify to sit the bar. I do however urge you to consider carefully before undertaking a non-bar program. The study of law is certainly a worthy persuit, but it seems an awful lot of work involved to achieve a degree that won't qualify you to gain licensure or practice professionally. Even if you have no intention of becoming an attourney, your interests may change in the near or distant future. Perhaps it might be prudent to write directly to one of the DL law schools offering a non-bar JD for more information. It is always better to get answers to questions directly from the source.
I have fulminated at great length against the so-called non-Bar J.D. Rather than repeat myself, let me suggest that the Baby Bar is a good, objective test of the student's progress. That's why it exists. The non Bar J.D. can be obtained at NWCU after three years' study that are identical to the Bar program's first three years. If you kept to CalBar's time requirements and took the Baby Bar, you could preserve your ability to complete their real J.D. until the last possible moment. The material studied is the same. Otherwise, you could find youself putting in three years of HARD work, regretting bitterly that you won't ever be able to practice.
It comprises three Bar exam type essay questions covering the first three subjects every part time law student tackles. (Full time students also take these same subjects but they take others as well and don't generally have to take the Baby Bar.) contracts; torts; and criminal law Sample Baby Bar quaestions are found at www.calbar.ca.gov under "bar exam". You will also find some depressing pass rate statistics.
Sorry; I was mistaken as to the number and type of questions. There are four essays and one hundred multiple choice type questions. The exam takes a full day.
No. But listen to nosborne48... and by that I mean that you should carefully read whatever he writes about this here, as well as you should search on this subject in previous threads. He has covered, quite nicely, in my opinion, what's fundamentally wrong with acquiring a J.D. when one has no intention whatsoever to practice law. My short response (yes, I'm actually capable of "short" responses) to your question, aside from "no," is: Don't do it. If you get a J.D., do it like you're eventually gonna' take the Bar exam. If you don't, and then later decide you'd like to take it, you'll be out of luck because you didn't make the appropriate declarations at the appropriate times; and didn't take the Baby-Bar back when you were supposed to have done so. On the other hand, if you do, then all you have to do at the end is not take the Bar if you don't want to. One way you limit all your choices; the other way you leave yourself nothing but choices; and both ways cost you exactly the same amount of money, take the same amount of time, and cover the exact same material. Why would you want to limit your choices, all other things being equal? Either pursue it like you mean it, or let it go.
I think DesElms said it better than I did and in less space. The J.D. is a PROFESSIONAL degree program whose purpose is to qualify the student to enter the profession of law. Any program that does not actually so prepare the student is not a J.D., whatever they print on the diploma. Pursue the J.D. if you want to be a lawyer or legal scholar (both of which as a practical matter require Bar admission here in the U.S). Otherwise, you'd best forget it.
I wouldn't advocate a non-Bar JD but I'm wondering then, what is the actual difference. Identical study program, same materials, is it the standards used in grading for the respective courses that distinguishes the non-Bar from the Bar-eligible program of study? Just wondering. Jack
None... at least in terms of coursework at most schools. I'm more up on the state's dozen or so distance learning (via correspondence and/or online training) schools and the state's requirements regarding same... so I'll talk about that... Both the bar-eligible and non-bar-eligible J.D. programs cover the exact same material at most D/L J.D. schools. D/L J.D. programs are, by directive of the Committee of Bar Examiners, always four years long; however, some programs allow non-bar-eligible J.D. students to finish-up after the third year (ostensibly because at nearly all of the D/L J.D. programs, the fourth year is made-up of coursework that pretty much only a person who plans to practice law would or could ever care about or use -- courses like, for example, professional ethics, administrative law, etc.). Bar-eligible D/L J.D. programs also have a time limit -- and a pretty strict one, at that. There's no "learning at your own pace," to speak of, with a bar-eligible D/L J.D. program. The non-bar eligible D/L J.D. student, on the other hand, may typically take as long as s/he likes to finish (although, based on how some of the schools charge, that would be financially foolish). Bar-eligible D/L J.D. students must register with the bar when they commence study, effectively declaring themselves as law students. Non-bar-qualifying D/L J.D. students needn't worry about that. Then there's the "Baby Bar" exam that all D/L J.D. students must take after the first year of study. Non-bar-qualifying D/L J.D. students needn't worry about that. So, the biggest differences, I guess, are reporting requirements and time limits and the Baby Bar. More specifically... Every bar-qualifying/bar-eligible D/L J.D. student seeking admission to practice law in California is required to: Register with the Committee of Bar Examiners within 90 days of enrollment in a D/L J.D. program; to receive a California law student registration number; and then to report said number to his/her law school within 60 days of his/her receipt thereof. Non-bar-qualifying D/L J.D. students need not do this. Ensure that the D/L J.D. law program is is authorized or approved to confer professional degrees by the state of California (through the BPPVE), and is one of the dozen or so schools registered with the California Comittee of Bar Examiners as authorized to grant bar-qualifying D/L J.D. degrees; and that the program requires a minimum of 864 hours of study and preparation each year for four (4) years, each year being not less than 48 weeks, nor more than 52 consecutive weeks. Non-bar-qualifying D/L J.D. students are not locked-in to such requirements as these. Take and pass the "First-Year Law Students' Examination" (sometimes called the "Baby Bar") following completion of one year of law study. The examination shall consist of such questions as the Committee may select on the subjects of contracts, torts and criminal law. No credit for any law study shall be recognized by the Committee of Bar Examiners until the exam has been passed by the applicant within the first three consecutive administrations of the exam after the first year of law study and the applicant becomes eligible to take it. An applicant who passes the examination within three consecutive administrations of first becoming eligible to take the examination upon completion of one year of law study, shall receive credit for all law study completed to the date of the administration of the examination passed, up to two years of law study. An applicant who does not pass the examination within three consecutive administrations of first becoming eligible to take the examination, but who subsequently passes the examination, shall receive credit for his or her first year of law study only. A non-bar-qualifying D/L J.D. student needn't even worry about the Baby Bar exam.[/list=1]Those are the salient differences. Resident programs that are unaccredited by the California Committee of Bar Examiners have some differences with respect to the number of hours of coursework, study and preparation per year because of the difference in the delivery method, but all other requirements are much the same as for the D/L J.D. programs. Hope that answers your question... at least with respect to D/L J.D. programs.
Ha! An historic moment. Write it down, everyone. It's pretty darned unlikely that that'll ever happen again!
