BG14 Page 37 NMCHE Rule 730

Hi,

I'm grateful to John Bear for referring to the NMCHE (www.nmche.org) "Rule 730" in BG14 page 37, even though it isn't called that any more.

And I'm also grateful to NMCHE for mailing me copies of the relevant documents concerned, namely:-

5 NMAC 100.2: Private Postsecondary Licensure Operation Under the Postsecondary Educational Institution Act (dated May 2001 although the Act dates from 1978)

and 5 NMAC 100.3 Private Postsecondary Institutions Operating Under the Out-Of-State Proprietary School Act

I hope to post the full text of each document to a web site soon for reference purposes, and have courteously been advised by NMCHE that the documents concerned are for public attention.

My interest is part of project I am involved in to map current educational (especially distance educational) and quality assurance processes.

I would be the first to agree that each document should be read and comprehended in its entirety, however, as a taster, I though a couple of extracts might be of interest to forum members:-

** Extract (1) **: 5.11.2.3 Statutory Authority:
The Post-Secondary Educational Institution Act (Section 2 1-23-1 through 21-23-5 NMSA 1978 as amended) authorizes the New Mexico Commission on Higher Education (“Commission”) to establish and monitor guidelines for the licensure of all private post-secondary institutions operating in New Mexico.

This reminds us (if needed) that the State concerned is responsible for the licensure of all private post-secondary institutions operating within its jurisdiction.

** Extract (2) **: 5.100.2.27 Additional Standards For Degree-Granting Institutions:

C (6) Baccalaureate and Graduate Degree Programs. Baccalaureate and graduate degree programs must be comparable in quality to those offered by institutions operating in New Mexico that are accredited by agencies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education as authorities regarding the quality of such degree programs. Award of degrees must be based upon the institution’s certification that the recipient has met standards of performance and competency comparable to the standards of institutions so accredited.

The above paragraph is worth reading again - especially if you have held state-licensed degrees to be of inferior quality to those offered by institutions holding accreditation from agencies recognized by the US Department of Education - at least in this particular state.

Regards,

Neil Hynd

 

Wow, this is the first I've heard of this.

The problem is, based on what I'm reading here, the only assurance of equivalent quality is the "institute's certification that the recipient has met the standards... comparable to the standards of institutions so accredited."

Unless it's covered somewhere else, this is a loophole that one could drive a house through.

I'm sure that if you asked Ron Pellar to certify somewhere that a Columbia State degree was equivalent in quality to an RA one, he'd happily fill out the form.

And ditto with Westbrook University, one of New Mexico's fine institutions of higher learning. It would be a joke to compare this school's curriculum to, say, Bastyr or National, except that people with inadequate credentials, graduating from this poor excuse for a school, are holding themselves out as qualified to treat cancer and other serious illness... and could be killing people or at the least, delaying meaningful treatment.

I sure don't see *any* effort being made to correct this school's non-RA equivalent education, especially since the vast majority of Westbrook faculty hold unaccredited degrees, many of them from Westbrook itself, and some from places that don't exist at all. (Last I checked, anyway)

If this is a change in NM policy, I hope that there is something giving the authorities a means to enforce. If not, and/or if this is a policy that's been on the books for years, it's as meaningless as Hawaii's new standards.

Maybe, Neil, what you're working on is intended to have some influence on these issues? That would be an excellent thing.



[Note: This message has been edited by Chip]

 

Point taken, Chip,

But the processes described elsewhere make for verifying the nature of the qualifications by the licensing body ... and of course misleading the Commission would be grounds for cancellation of the license.

Probably worth reading the whole thing when I can get it posted .....

Regards,

Neil

 

Dr. Hynd's fascination with the nuances of New Mexico education law reminds me, yet again, that my main role in this field has been to help people decide whether a given degree will meet their needs, whatever those needs may be.

If Dr. Hynd can name even one institution, among the 4,000-or-so listed in the Higher Education Directory, that would routinely accept credits and degrees from his alma mater, Century University, that would be useful information indeed.

Failing that, the New Mexico regulations would seem to be, as they say in that part of the world, all hat and no cattle.

 

Hi John,

What happened to the 15th June retirement ?

I guess you must have been taking lessons from Frank Sinatra .....

I'm a little surprised at your remarks, given that DE has been and remains a developing situation - with improvements evident for all (most people anyway) to see.

This is also particularly apt, since I've just been looking at some material you wrote on CPU in 1980 as part of your "consultancy service" and extracts from what you wrote in BG-8 (yes 8) on the http://www.altcpualumni.org web site.

Well worth re-reading in fact given the benefit of hindsight ....... (no pun intended) !

Enjoy your travels - when you eventually get away .... no peeking !!!

Cheers,

Neil

 

Neil, I don't know how things like this are handled in the UAE, but my AP style and
libel manual suggests that if you put
quotations about a word or phrase with the obvious intent of calling its status as same into question (the example given was, I believe, "The governor met with his 'secretary' yesterday"), it is treated as though it were a direct statement that the term is not legitimate. So my advice as a friendly co-member is that you either present evidence that the consulting service was not legitimate, or post a retraction.

There's a significant difference between BG8 CPU and BG14 Century, if only because CPU was a somewhat promising California-approved school at the time and Century is a somewhat unpromising New Mexico-approved school at the moment.

Hardly necessary for me to defend John Bear, but I find your tone to be more than a little annoying. I believe I've already asked you what you did to earn your Century doctorate (giving you the opportunity to educate us all on the matter), and I don't remember getting a response. If you would care to say something in defense of Century, my advice would be to say something in defense of Century--but "you used to like CPU" is a rather laughable response by anyone's definition, I think, and not the sort of response I would expect from a Ph.D., or for that matter any other post-pubescent human being.


Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

Nice. But...

1) Is it ever enforced, or does this admirable intention exist only on paper?

2) If it is enforced, how is that done? What process does the state use to determine equivalent quality? Does the small state of New Mexico operate its own competent higher education accrediting agency?

3) If the equivalency standard that the state uses is USDoE recognized accreditation, why not simply require USDoE recognized accreditation? Why does this parallel state approval process exist in the first place?

4) Why are there state-approved schools that have never gone on to recognized accreditation? If they are RA-equivalent that should be no problem. What are they lacking that keeps them from doing this?

5) The law requires quality equivalence with New Mexico's universities that hold recognized accreditation. But if none of those universities accept degrees and credits from the state-approved schools, then haven't the schools that are assigned to be the standard spoken en-masse in denying that equivalence?

 

Dr. Hynd is "...surprised at your remarks, given that DE has been and remains a developing situation - with improvements evident for all (most people anyway) to see."

After 20 years, I see Century is still making their highly misleading (my opinion) accreditation claims regarding their accreditation by a smarmy (my opinion) and unrecognized agency . . . and I see they still have (as of this morning) 50% of their faculty (12 of 24) with their highest degree from Century, a laughable (I laugh, anyway) figure.

There are internet cafes in Kyzyl, Ulaan Baatar, and Irkutsk. I may need to check in, if only to observe and perhaps respond to the flow of innuendo here.

 

This "useful information," as we all know, does not exist! No RA school is going to have a policy of routinely accepting credits/degrees from Century University, or any other state approved, non-RA school.

It has been discussed numerous times that a small percentage of people can benefit from a non-RA degree, so state approved degrees do indeed facilitate the goals of some. But to equate them with RA degrees is
at best misleading. They do not have the utility or marketability that a RA degree has, and from examining literally scores of catalogs from such schools, most do not meet the same academic standard of RA programs. Even Cal Coast's (I personally wish CCU would achieve some type of recognized accreditation) Ph.D. program does not require the level of work its RA counterpart does, e.g., multiple choice exams, no proctors, brief dissertations, etc.

Russell

 

Hi Guys,

Sorry this thread couldn't have kept completely on the serious track as Chip tried to develop ... but then I suppose the temptation was too great not to let off the odd Exocet or two - in which case return fire is sure to follow !

Tom: sorry if you're touchy about the use of parentheses - maybe all that business of the US President's 'Intern' had something to do with it.

I tend to use them casually to highlight entities, concepts or similar to make such stand out from the text - which on looking at the details further could have read "Degree Consulting Services". Mind you, maybe a "Head Form & Style Manual" for e-mails or discussion group postings could help sort this out for us ?

But I do notice that in John's DCS 44 text, the writing reads (to quote - including punctuation) ....CPU claims that it is "the largest university in the US offering graduate non-resident degrees". Which was probably true at the time. Also that .... all degree programs required a "Healthscription" course .... and the Independent Study Project is designed to develop "competence in a field" at the Bachelor's level, "deep understanding" at the Master's, and "creativity" at the Doctorate level.

Looks as though we could go on for ever here ....

Sorry also Tom - I must have missed your earlier reference to what I did for a CU doctorate - although that's not really the subject here.

Briefly: seven research study reports; four of which were CU core modules and three from my program design (based on a comparison of Brandeis, Georgia Tech and Princeton - closest to a merged-track program from Princeton covering Computer Science and Information Systems subjects) - plus a 120,000 word dissertation with a 4GL MIS prototype of 75 multi-facet (CRUD) functions across 36 entities. Does that help ?

Bill: sensible questions which beg quite a few questions in themselves. Given the history of cross-sector credit transfer, the prospects for equivalence are probably not that wonderful. But doesn't that say more about the "equivalence processes" (such as they are) than about anything else ?

Russell: same thought again - but perhaps there could well be / really is a case for objective evaluation of equivalence in credit transfers which does not depend on membership of one group or another.

Which is why some detailed analysis of processes (such as NM and any others you'd care to mention) might actually be a useful exercise. And is one I'm attempting to do alongside recognised quality system processes.

John: you're right - there are plenty of internet cafes around. One of my daughters recently kept in regular contact while travelling along the Ho Chi Minh Trail ! On your other point, the text of the May 2001 NM 5.100.2 document (clause 18) addresses the issue of referring to accreditation.

In which case - when I get the details posted - maybe the next focus can actually be on the subject.

Here's hoping .....

Cheers,

Neil

 

I think it's worth pointing out that state approval CAN be recognized by the US Dept. of Education; the New York Board of Regents is so recognized.

See http://www.ed.gov/offices/OPE/accreditation/titleivagencies.html

 

Ashton points out that "state approval CAN be recognized by the US Dept. of Education; the New York Board of Regents is so recognized."

Excellent point. A perfect way for New Mexico to put their all licensed schools "must be comparable in quality to those offered by institutions operating in New Mexico that are accredited by agencies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education" claim to the test.

If the powers that be in Washington agree that Century is "comparable in quality" to the University of New Mexico, I'll cheerfully change the snarky way I write about Century (as soon as I finish eating my hat, that is).

PS to Neil, who is clearly interested in how I spend my time. I did indeed reduce my work load in this field dramatically on June 15th, and boy does it feel good. I shall reduce it to zero on July 3, and see how that feels for the following five weeks, and act accordingly.

 

Neil,

Are you saying that your Century Ph.D. dissertation was 120,000 words? How many pages did this total?

Russell

 

But it is the only state agency so recognized. While many others exercise considerable control over insitutions of higher learning in their respective states, it was California that could have had the strongest impact on DL if it had followed in New York's footsteps. But we don't really know how much time and resources it would have taken, do we?

Rich Douglas

 

Hi Russell,

Responding to your question, I checked the data files again to see that it was closer to 135,000 words including 60+ pages of functional decomposition tables and 181 diagrams.

The total when bound came to around 400 pages - and that wasn't double-spaced as many form and style guides suggest. I used a word processing font and spacing that made for a reasonable layout.

Plus there was the working prototype MIS application as mentioned.

Cheers,

Neil

 

Hi Guys,

The references are:-

** New Mexico - Private Postsecondary Licensure Operating Under the Postsecondary Educational Institution Act (May 2001)
http://www.bfranklin.edu/deqa/nmche/nmche51002.htm

** New Mexico - Private Postsecondary Institutes Operating Under the Out-of-State Proprietary School Act
http://www.bfranklin.edu/deqa/nmche/nmche51003.htm

As for the raison d'etre, maybe this an example of a state that, while recognising what US DoEd recognition implies, also wants control itself in what is, after all, a statutory duty.

Indeed, with identified educational quality measures and levels, there's every reason for each educational authority to be its own master - as with other parts of the educational spectrum.

Cheers,

Neil

 

The duty of regulating colleges and universities does indeed fall to the states. But state approval/licensure/recognition/etc. is not what makes a school part of this nation's academic system. Recognized accreditation does. While the U.S. DOE doesn't regulate colleges and universities, it is tasked with maintaining a list of recognized accrediting agencies who, in turn, recognize colleges and universities. To be so recognized is to be part of this nation's higher education system. That is the internationally recognized standard for U.S. schools. Everything else falls far short. And all the hemming and hawing about state-approved schools (including scoundrels like Century who fled California when they couldn't meet the Approval requirements) doesn't matter: they're not part of the higher education system in the U.S. Period.

Speaking of Century, this is a school that operated for years under California's Authorized Status, Section 94310(c). It never saw any of its degree programs reach Approved status. It would have remained indefintely in the realm of the non-evaluative Authorized category, if allowed. This is a school that bartered its fake accreditation for 25 years, and has a ridiculously high number of faculty with degrees from Century itself. Not to mention that its tiny faculty has, by its own claims, "graduated" more than 10,000 people over the years. Please. They convict themselves with their own petard.

Rich Douglas

 

Hi,

I had hoped the item I posted based on a serious piece of state legislation would avoid some of the less temperate responses ... apparently not so .....

Rich, which of these is statements is substantially incorrect ?

1. Holding Regional Accreditation exempts the holder from state educational licensing/approval

2. States in the USA are the statutory legal authority for all education in their jurisdiction

3. The purpose of the list of recognised accreditors maintained by the US DoEd is for assigning federal finances

Please.

Neil Hynd

 

Statement 1 is often true. Many states take a "pass" on schools already accredited by a recognized agency. Gee, could that be because they recognize redundancy to regulate schools that are already adequately evaluated?

Statement 2 is true. That's the problem. There is a dichotomy between what is the legal definition and what is the accepted definition of what is and is not a university in the U.S. But the accepted standard remains the same: accreditation. And many states take little or no action to exercise this authority. That is why it is held in such low esteem. (And the cause of the rise of the regional accreditors in the first place.)

Statement 3 is true. But it is also very true that a university is not recognized as being a university unless it is accredited by a recognized agency. (Of course, that recognition can also come from CHEA, which has no legal standing but is the other de facto standard setter.)

This is the rub: No matter how true those statements are, they don't change the fact that it is accreditation that determines the inclusion of a college or university into this country's higher educational system. That is the standard sought in the U.S., and it is the standard sought of American schools by people outside the U.S. Everyone else is just fooling themselves (and/or others).

Century does not meet that standard, has not, and will not. And if a case could be made for states that exercise considerable control over unaccredited schools (like California, Florida, and Virginia, for example), fine. But Century doesn't even meet that much lower bar. For it made a run for it when California went to apply their standards to Century. Why? Certainly not for greater academic rigor. New Mexico's oversight of unaccredited schools isn't anywhere near as tough (and California ain't all that tough). And if Breslow's baby (that awarded its owner a degree he didn't already have before establishing the school) was serious about academics, then why claim bogus accreditation? Why graduate over 10,000 people using a tiny faculty? Why has it never been accredited by a recognized agency? Why?

Everyone knows why. Ka-CHING!!!

Rich Douglas

 

The California CPPVE looked into the possibility of obtaining recognition from the US Dept. of Education a few years back. It's my understanding they were told the law (or policy) had changed since the New York approval and the DOE would not accept new applications from other states.