What is a degree mill?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by JimS, Feb 22, 2005.

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  1. JimS

    JimS New Member

    Is there a good definition for degree mill?

    I'll start off the discussion with a working definition:

    "A degree (or diploma) mill is a business that issues a false statement of academic achievement".

    Jim
     
  2. Han

    Han New Member

    I guess another question to this question is in what context is it needing to be defined.
     
  3. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    From my Masters research, I found that the definition of a diploma mill was generally allocated to individuals/ organisations that produced replica testamurs from bona fide institutions. The definition of a degree mill, however, is far harder to determine.

    Cheers,

    George
     
  4. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    diploma mill (degree mill same thing IMO) = A school that sells diplomas for little or no work where you can basically buy a degree.

    substandard = A school that requires some work, but does not meet the minimum standards associated with the majority of universities. These businesses call themselves universities, but do not set or adhere to normative standard requirements, have bad operating practices, and avoid academic oversight.

    legitimate university = To me a legitimate university would be one that shares the minimum standards that most universities share whether accredited or not.

    state approved = a school that is approved in the state in which it operates or is located that went through an academic approval process, and has academic oversight. (Not the same as state licensed)

    I tried to define my definitions of these terms here , but as always I reserve the right to change my mind if anyone has better definition.


    JWS,

    As for KWU, I do not put it in the diploma mill category, BUT it is very substandard and rides a lot closer to the diploma mill line than it does to a legitimate university.
     
  5. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Hi Scott

    I like your definitions but would tweak them just a little.

    Degree/Diploma Mill- (Like you, I really see no difference in the terms.) A school that offers a degree for little or no work or is greatly substandard. Examples would be SRU, PWU, and of course K-WU.

    Substandard School- One that may not reach accredited school standard but requires serious work. K-W's 5-6 class maximum definately throws it out of this category. CCU before it tightened up for its DETC bid is a perfect example.

    I think you hit the nail on the head concerning State Licensed and State Approved.
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The definitions (like most word/term definitions) are somewhat subjective.

    I intend degree mill (or diploma mill) to mean a substandard school.

    There are a few substandard schools that actually offer some academic courses and require significant work (like KWU). There really seems to be relatively few schools in this sort of gray area area. They get a fair amount of discussion on this forum for a number of reasons. My tendency is to refer to them as diploma mills if the work required appears is not up to the generally accepted standards.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    A lot of schools that some people defend fit this definition. Kennedy-Western comes to mind, awarding bachelor's degrees without a complete curriculum and awarding life-experience credit without requiring sufficient evidence--or even validating what they're given. And some purists might quibble over what K-WU calls "courses," which are merely books and exams (with available tutuoring).

    Now, I'm not one to call Kennedy-Western a diploma mill, of course. But I can see why others do.
     
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I like it. It's as clear and succinct as anything I've heard.

    But I think that I would modify your suggestion this way:

    "A degree (or diploma) mill is a party that awards unreliable certifications of academic achievement."

    I changed 'business' to 'party', to cover individuals, churches or whatnot that might want to grant bogus degrees.

    And I changed 'issues a false statement' to 'awards unreliable certifications' to cover "life-experience" degrees sold to people who coincidently just happen to have the knowledge and skills that the degree suggests.

    If a person really knows his or her stuff, then a degree-mill "degree" might actually be telling the truth about his or her competence. But if the "degree" could just as easily have been awarded to somebody who doesn't have that competence, then it doesn't really qualify as a reliable certification.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2005
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Why does this question come up nearly once per month?

    A degree mill is a school that issues degrees for little or no work, has a POB, storefront, trailer, garage, motel room, private residence, etc, as its facility, and has no faculty with legitimate credentials, plan and simple.

    Have a feeling there is a troll amuck!
     
  10. Jake_A

    Jake_A New Member

    Great thread. Thanks for starting this, JimS.

    I will cite four different definitions or statements on what constitutes a "diploma mill" - all of which I agree with, at least, in part. They are definitions by Oregon ODA, CHEA, USDoE, and US GAO.

    1. Oregon ODA's definition:

    It is a partial definition and I agree with it, given its non-comprehensive limitation.

    The Oregon Office of Degree Authorization quotes Webster’s Third New International Dictionary on the definition of a diploma mill:

    An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless.
    (source: http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/1_1/daily_news/20849-1.html)

    On the basis of this definition, for example, KW"U" is a diploma mill.

    2. CHEA's definition

    CHEA's definition is a bit more exhaustive than the ODA's one-sentence definition. The CHEA states:

    "Diploma mill or legitimate school? Here's how to tell

    "The Council for Higher Education Accreditation (www.chea.org) in Washington has a fact sheet identifying warning signs that an organization might be a diploma mill.

    "If the answers to most of the following questions are "yes," students and the public "should take this as highly suggestive that they may be dealing with a mill.

    In this circumstance, students and the public may be best served by looking for alternatives for higher education and quality assurance," the council said.

    - Can degrees be purchased?
    - Is there a claim of accreditation when there is no evidence of this status?
    - Is there a claim of accreditation from a questionable accrediting organization?
    - Does the operation lack state or federal licensure or authority to operate?
    - Is little, if any, attendance required?
    - Are few assignments required for students to earn credits?
    - Is a very short period of time required to earn a degree?
    - Are degrees available based solely on experience or resume review?
    - Are there few requirements for graduation?
    - Does the operation charge very high fees as compared with average fees charged by higher education institutions?
    - Is the fee so low that it does not appear to be related to the cost of providing legitimate education?
    - Does the operation fail to provide any information about a campus, business location or address and relies, for example, on a post office box?
    - Does the operation fail to provide a list of its faculty and their qualifications?
    - Does the operation have a name similar to other well-known colleges and universities?
    - Does the operation make claims in its publications for which there is no evidence?"

    source: http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/18_7/cover-stories/21099-1.html

    On the basis of the arguably majority "yes" responses that one can give as responses to the above list of questions, a convincing case can be made that KW"U", for example, is a diploma mill.

    3. The US Department of Education:

    States that "Diploma mills operate outside the purview of the accreditation process and the Department of Education's oversight of federal student aid programs."

    4. US GAO:

    It defines a diploma mill as often "........ Internet-based, nontraditional, unaccredited, postsecondary schools that offer degrees for a relatively low flat fee, promote the award of academic credits based on life experience, and do not require any classroom instruction."

    GAO also cites other factors in its published report.

    (Source: DIPLOMA MILLS, Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government
    Expense," http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04771t.pdf):

    "diploma mills and other unaccredited schools modify their billing practices so students can obtain payments for degrees by the federal government."

    Representatives of each school (recently investigated by the GAO) told GAO investigators that they would structure their charges in order to facilitate payment by the federal government.

    This, in addition to other cited factors, makes KW"U"again in my view, a diploma mill.

    GAO also states that: "...... diploma mills frequently use names similar to those used by accredited schools, which often allows the diploma mills to be mistaken for accredited schools" (e.g. Hamilton).

    My overall conclusion?

    Says Professor Ric Watson (Columbia Evangelical Seminary, Buckley, WA) in his "Coffe Talk" series:

    "The most insidious problem facing distance education today and in the future: The terribly substandard but still legal schools that I call "culleges," or, "cull-mills."
    source: http://www.columbiaseminary.edu/coffeetalk/065.html

    I agree.

    Thanks.
     
  11. Revkag

    Revkag New Member

    degree mill

    I'm not sure I agree with the troll comment....

    I have enjoyed following the discussions, but still have some questions and thoughts regarding whether a school is legit or not...

    If a school meets the IRS, government, or whatever standards to be in business and has been awarded permission to grant degrees by whatever state or country they are located in and then actively markets the awarding of a degree upon completion of the agreed coursework or by accepting and giving credits based on a standard of experience they are legit.

    The crux of the issue is whether one's chosen career will accept their degree and whether other institutions will accept the work as equal to generally accepted requirements.

    I'm actively looking for a distance learning doctoral program that will allow me to do the research that I have an interest in and will be affordable and can be completed rather quickly.

    I have contacted schools in Australia and South Africa as well as a number of TRACS schools and others that might be considered degree mills.

    I have had only one school that has responded in a timely manner with clear requirements and detailed financial details.

    I am ready and willing to get started, but want a school that actively expresses an interest in me as a student and is willing to work with my interests. Unfortunately, the only school that has responded to me in a timely manner is considered to be a degree mill by those on this board. I am faced with doing the work and receiving a degree that many will not consider worthy or jumping through the hoops and hope that some of the school that this site considers to be credible will finally step up to the plate and work with me.

    Now that I have vented... perhaps there are individuals who might have some suggestions for me...
     
  12. JimS

    JimS New Member

    I was asked in a different thread why I "feel" KWU is not a degree mill. My gut feeling is that it is not. But a gut feeling is not enough to argue the point. I spent about an hour trying to develop a logical argument but always got hung up on defining a degree mill in a legal sense. Many of the definitions I found defined the term using examples of various schools, or examples of the attributes of a degree mill. This thread was not started to stir up the muck. It was started to help me define the phrase in my mind.
    Thank you to the folks who have provided input. You have already given me a lot to consider.
    I do not consider it my job (or private mission) to defend KWU. But I do stick my nose into the conversations if I read something I consider incorrect. For example: open book exams are not considered an inappropriate method for testing at RA schools, therefore that method is not an attribute of a degree mill.
    Jim
     
  13. JimS

    JimS New Member

    I feel KWU only satisfies a "yes" response to two of the above:
    - Is little, if any, attendance required?
    - Are few assignments required for students to earn credits?

    No attendance is required. I believe this is appropriate for adult learning situations. Also, attendance was not mandatory for most of the traditional courses I took at RA universities.

    KUW assignments consist of timed online exams, timed and proctored exams, and final research papers (thesis paper for Masters, dissertation for Doctor). Many people have complained to KWU that they would rather take additional exams rather than one big final. Others argue additional exams or assignments would drag out the process due to problems locating proctors.

    Jim
     
  14. Jake_A

    Jake_A New Member

    Good point. I agree!

    Ostensibly, many, if not most, accredited RA, NA, DETC or foreign-equivalent schools use open-book exams and legimately so. I do not have a problem with open-book exams. I have used them myself in courses I teach at two accredited B&M universities.

    But, pray, anyone, answer me this question:

    How many legitimate schools of any accreditation type, and please NAME THEM, have historically used or currently use, ONLY ONE OPEN-BOOK EXAM per course for the entire duration of one's enrollment, to measure satisfactory completion of said course and upon that basis, award degrees (of any type)?

    It has been posted here and elsewhere, that ALL OF KW"U"'s courses use ONLY ONE OPEN-BOOK EXAM per course, thus six courses require only six open-book exams, eight courses require only eight open-book exams, etc.

    It has also been posted that contact with an instructor, professor, tutor, etc, is not required. One may contact an instructor with a question, or one may choose not to.

    In fact, someone please correct me if I am wrong, but one can obtain a bachelor's, master's or doctorate degree from KW"U" without ever having communicated ONCE, with an instructor!

    Why would an entity do what no other legitimate, accredited school do, and still claim that they do not constitute a diploma mill and that their "degrees are of comparable quality to accredited schools, courses, degrees and programs?"

    These facts, plus the additionally documented fact that KW"U" has been said to not possess or practise even the remotest semblance of a rigorous and valid testing, assessment, evaluation and quantification of the life experience credits which it summarily awards to all KW"U" enrollees, make it a diploma mill, IMHO.

    Thanks.
     
  15. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    I still ascribe to the diploma mill and degree mill differences, and the literature suggests similar. Grab hold of the following journal articles and they discuss in some depth:

    Patrick O'Neil, G (1991) The Diploma Mill Trap. Canadian Journal of Counselling, Vol. 25: 1, pages 81-90

    Synder, P (1974) A classification of diploma mills in the United States. College Student Journal. Vol. 8: 1, pages 92-95

    The Type 1, Diploma Mill classification is sometimes seen as 'The Briefcase College', who are providers of instant, no question degrees. Type 2 are the rest on the continuum of legitimacy.

    Cheers,

    George
     
  16. business

    business New Member

    What is the value of an unaccredited university degree if it is state approved versus state licensed? What is the value of an unaccredited university degree if it is state licensed by the state's department of education?
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Here's how I would stack KWU up against the list.

    - Can degrees be purchased? Yes, reference the Singapore connection.

    - Is there a claim of accreditation when there is no evidence of this status? Yes in the past.

    - Is there a claim of accreditation from a questionable accrediting organization? Yes in the past.

    - Does the operation lack state or federal licensure or authority to operate? no

    - Is little, if any, attendance required? yes

    - Are few assignments required for students to earn credits? yes

    - Is a very short period of time required to earn a degree? I'll be a generous guy with a no here.

    - Are degrees available based solely on experience or resume review? yes, see Singapore connection

    - Are there few requirements for graduation? yes, requirements are not published but instead "negotiated" with each individual candidate.

    - Does the operation charge very high fees as compared with average fees charged by higher education institutions? no

    - Is the fee so low that it does not appear to be related to the cost of providing legitimate education? no

    - Does the operation fail to provide any information about a campus, business location or address and relies, for example, on a post office box? no

    - Does the operation fail to provide a list of its faculty and their qualifications? no

    - Does the operation have a name similar to other well-known colleges and universities? no

    - Does the operation make claims in its publications for which there is no evidence?" yes, for example KWU claims to conduct yearly quality reviews but the reports are not made public (if they even exist?)

    There are three very important indicators of diploma mill that were missed above. Answering yes on even one of these almost always indicates a degree mill.

    1. If the students are not allowed to enroll when they live in the same jurisdiction as the entity operates from. This is to avoid legal entanglements should a student complain to the authorities. KWU falls into this category.

    2. If the entity operates in one jurisdiction but uses a mailing address in a different legal jurisdiction. This helps to avoid legal entanglements. Yes this is the way KWU works.

    3. If the entity has fled from one legal jurisdiction to another. KWU has fled three different legal jurisdictions to avoid legal entanglements, California, Hawaii, and Idaho (IIRC).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2005
  18. Jake_A

    Jake_A New Member

    Good post, Bill! Here is my stack-'em-up CHEA-accreditation-test- chart for KW"U":

    - Can degrees be purchased?

    Yes. A flat fee for a degree "program;" No charges by credit, credit-hour, semester, or year. Flat fee for a bachelors, masters, or doctoral degree.

    - Is there a claim of accreditation when there is no evidence of this status?

    Presto! Yes, KW"U" used to claim accreditation from a fake accreditor.

    - Is there a claim of accreditation from a questionable accrediting organization?

    Yes, see above.

    - Does the operation lack state or federal licensure or authority to operate?

    No, KW"U" has a license to operate from the state of Wyoming, but ...

    Yes, KW"U" has administrative offices in Agoura Hills, CA, but is not licensed and is not approved by the state of CA to operate as a degree-granting organization in CA. CA residents may not and cannot enroll in KW"U".

    - Is little, if any, attendance required?

    Yes, as in none.

    - Are few assignments required for students to earn credits?

    Yes. One open-book exam per course.

    No quizzes, no assignments, no tests, no mid-terms, no term papers, no colloquia, no studios, no required interactions with faculty, no nothing except one open-book per course!

    - Is a very short period of time required to earn a degree?

    Yes, comparatively-speaking.

    Compared to a regular, accredited universities: 12-18 months versus 4 years or more, for a bachelors; 12-18 months versus two years (normally) or more for a masters; 12-18 months versus four, five or more years or more for a doctorate.

    - Are degrees available based solely on experience or resume review?

    No but a BIG but ........ A huge portion of one's degree award is given for life experience credits, mostly unverified. KW"U" generally takes your word for "it."

    If instead of 40 courses, KW"U" stipulates that one need only take 4, 5, 6, or up to 9 (maximum) courses for ANY degree (bachelors, masters, and doctorate) arguably KW"U" is in essence saying that the enrollee is entitled to the difference due to ..... You guessed it: credits for life experience!

    So, if you answered "Yes" to this question, you can make a strong case for it.

    - Are there few requirements for graduation?
    Yes, as in simply pass 4 to 9 one open-book exam per course, plus write a 100-page thesis (bachelors or masters) or a 150-page dissertation (doctorate). No overly complicated graduation requirements to deal with.

    Oh, and the most important (admission and) graduation requirement: that your check clears or that your credit card is good!

    - Does the operation charge very high fees as compared with
    average fees charged by higher education institutions?

    No, but converting KW"U"'s one flat fee per degree to charges per credit shows that KW"U" is as expensive, maybe even more so, than average in-state costs at an average state college or university. Do the math! you will see what I mean.

    - Is the fee so low that it does not appear to be related to the cost of providing legitimate education?

    No. See above. However, KW"U"'s average $7,000 per degree is a bargain (on its face value) compared to paying $30,000 per year for 4 years or $120,000 for a bachelor's degree!

    So "No" is correct and "Yes" is also (arguably) correct.

    - Does the operation fail to provide any information about a campus, business location or address and relies, for example, on a post office box?

    No. KW"U" is upfront with its location, offices, and other contact information. No P.O. Box here.

    - Does the operation fail to provide a list of its faculty and their qualifications?

    No. KW"U" claims to have many faculty with accredited degrees, at least in its sales/promotion literature. No independent proof exists anywhere that ALL of said faculty actually do something for KW"U" in any given year.

    Who knows? Many may be listed year after year even if they had only been so engaged for a year, five or ten years ago!

    You doubt this speculative assertion of mine? Ok, ask KW"U" for a current list of "active" faculty! Good luck getting it, and if you got it, how would you verify that the list was in fact, accurate?

    This is what legitimate and recognized accreditors do - and KW"U" has no such legitimate accreditors, none in its 20 year history!

    - Does the operation have a name similar to other well-known colleges and universities?

    No.

    - Does the operation make claims in its publications for which there is no evidence?"

    Yes! Plenty! as in "KW"U" education is comparable to any from accredited B&M colleges and universities."

    Yeah, right. Talk is cheap!

    So all in all, a majority (at least, a plurality) of "Yes" responses, providing support to a KW"U" is a diploma mill assertion.

    And if not a diploma mill, then it may be very, very, very, very close to one but nowhere near close to the standards as pertain in the average accredited public or private college of any size, type or geographic location (US).

    Thanks.
     
  19. JimS

    JimS New Member

    I don't understand what you mean regarding negotiating graduation requirements. Is that in reference to picking courses? I am not familiar with the KWU process for selecting undergraduate courses. I believe it is structured around the core courses for the student's major. For the Ph.D. program I was given a list of about a dozen core courses (from the same 700 and 800 series of courses presented at other universities) and was able to pick the eight courses that looked the most relevent to my goals.
    Jim
     
  20. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    KW"U" Shillspeak 101

    Obtaining an IRS 501(c)3 (not-for-profit) designation has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

    Some jurisdictions will grant a business license to anyone with a pulse... or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

    Some jurisdictions award permission to grant degrees to anyone with a pulse... or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

    Diploma mill operators actively market the awarding of degrees, too. What does "actively marketing" have to do with it?

    Regardless of the inherent quality of said coursework? So if I open a school and offer a BA Cat Claw Clipping, I could require however many courses I wanted, and then give the balance of the degree's credit for life experience to those who came to the table having clipped a cat's claws before? Earth to Revkag... you're off your meds again.

    No they're not. All the are is "in existence," which is a quantitative sort of thing. Legitimacy is a qualitative sort of thing... the measure of which is made either by accreditation or by making certain objective, comparative assessments by some other means which any reasonable person would have to agree truly scrutinizes the degree's rigor and appropriateness.

    Ah, yes... the Kennedy-Western "University" argument. Instead of offering-up objective indicators of the legitimacy of its degrees (most specifically, by means of listing its accreditations), KW"U" talks about the corporations that will accept them. If you're going to make an argument, do you think you could use the "Search" function and make sure it hasn't already been used and abused in these fora a thousand times before you?

    May I recommend that you select an institution listed on the CHEA web site?

    There are no TRACS-accredited schools that would (or even "might") be considered degree (or diploma) mills by anyone, anywhere. Both Australia and South Africa have very rigid accreditation standards that are accpeptable to most regionally-accredited U.S. schools on their face. I don't know what "others" you also looked at.

    Join the club. Some universities never reply. With some of them you have to all but call-in a bomb threat to get their attention -- even schools that have some of the best reputations in the country, and which are also fully accredited by a USDoE/CHEA-approved agency. So what's your point?

    Great! Maybe if you stopped offering a degree from Kennedy-Western "University" as requisite, you'd actually start having some success.

    Which one? Could it be... wait... lemmee guess... Kennedy-Western "University?"

    Because your undergrad is from Kennedy-Western. Get it?

    Yeah. Go away, shill.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2005

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