I have been looking real hard for an RA/ABET accredited BS in Mechanical Engineering but I can find nothing but technology degrees. I think the technology degree would actually be a better fit for me but I have ran into some "hardcore" BSME's in the past who tend to belittle them against thier own degree's. I don't want to start a war here, but any "constructive" comments from people currently in these fields would be appreciated. Is this really something I should be worried about or am I just over-reacting? From the looks of the classes it appears to me that the BSME programs contain more "theory" and the the BSMET's seem to be more "applied". Since I tend to look at things from realistic perspective, I feel pretty sure I'll never be working on the space shuttle or designing a car where I might be inclined to use some of the advanced theory stuff on a regular basis. Currently I work as a Manufacturing Engineering Designer with a little over 10 years experience in machine design and tooling for manufacturing processes (not product design). Couldn't the technology degree possibly be more attractive to a potential employer who is looking for a Manufacturing Engineer (especially if they have experience) if/when I ever need to get another job? Also, one of the programs I'm looking at is at Excelsior. I would like to hear from anybody who is familiar with them as to how the classes are normally delivered (i.e. videotaped lectures, web streaming, etc.) because I havn't found any details about this on the website. Sincerely, Daniel Alexander
Daniel, Regarding BSME vs BSMET, the same level of snobery exists between BSEE and BSEET. Often, holders of engineering degrees tend to think less of holders of technology degrees. You are correct that the engineering coureswork is more rigorous - theory-based with more advanced mathematics. The engineering folks tend to be more focused on design and development while the technology folks tend to hold positions in the applied areas of the product/process/application. Be forwarned, however, that many employers would rather hire a degreed "engineer" rather than a degreed "technologist" for engineering positions. This is not in all cases but it does occur. The government, in particular, will typically hire only "engineers" for engineering positions even though the technologist may have more practical experience. The same is often true for businesses. And, in most cases, the engineering majors receive a higher base pay than technology majors. Again, this is in general terms but I think you do run the risk of closing some doors without an "engineering" degree. One common exception is a physics degree. In most all cases, an engineering position can be filled and performed by a physics major. And, if say a BSME could not be found and the choice was between a physics major and a BSMET, I believe that in most cases the physics guy/gal will win out. My undergrad degree is in physics and I've held a number of engineering positions in both the government (NASA) and in the private sector. I can say with 100% certainty that I would not have received the job at NASA had my degree been a BSEET. Your experience should help a lot. I too had nearly ten years electronics and communication systems experience when I got my BS. Since you're already established in your field, it may not make that big of a difference. I'd suggest you seek the advice from a universities' engineering department and talk to "both" the engineering and technology advisors to determine opportunities and shortcommings with either solution. And, consider a physics degree. Excelsior offers a BS in physics and one of the board members here is a graduate from that program - now has a PhD from Nova Southeastern in Information Systems. Best of luck
Thanks for the reply. I just looked at the coursework for the Physics degree and I can say with almost certainty that I will never use 90% of that knowledge in the type of work I'd be willing to do. It just makes it a little hard for me to swallow when the classes I would really benefit from the most and could be directly applied in helping me do my job are in the technology degree.... which in turn is the one that's least likely to get me into the "titled" position in the first place. I've noticed that most companies will not hesitate to have you perform the job without the title (or the money) though. Go figure.
Your description of your job suggests you don't need a professional engineering license. Just in case you make some changes so that you do need a license, be aware that a few states will only grant a licence to a BSME holder, not a BSMET holder. Gerry Ashton PE (electrical engineer)
A physics degree is problem centric; that is; you will solve a lot of problems in your coursework. You may not use all of the knowledge you will have an ability to apply your methodology and problem solving skills to nearly any scientific, engineering, and technical field. Such a background combined with practical hands-on experience can be a very powerful combination. If you are looking just for a degree program that will fit into your current domain then I would suggest the technology degree. John
Dan, By all means pursue a BSET from Excelsior but don't look to the near term. As one goes through life opportunities arise and it is great to be able to take advantage of them. In my experience many companies hire BSMEs (or equiv.) holders for positions requiring analysis, conceptual/preliminary design, failure analysis, and other duties requiring innovative thinking. Those same companies hire BSETs (and AA ME) for lower level , but critical, positions that at mostly routine but require a basic understanding of engineering. The accreditation requirements for these two-degree types are at www.abet.org, and by visiting the CSULB (who offers both degrees) web page you can make a comparison between of both types of degrees. ABET accredited BSME degrees require a substantial laboratory element, which is one reason there are no (as far as I know), distance learning degrees. If you decide to pursue a BSET, plan it so that you can continue on to a BSME (or equiv.) and to an MS degree at a later date. I recently hired 20 engineers and during that process I was surprised how many applicants had MS degrees (more than 50%). I would not be at all surprised if an MS became a standard engineer requirement on the next 10 - 20 years. I received my BS from Excelsior (then Regents) but all my credits were earned attending colleges local to my several domiciles. Good luck. Ian
I've gotten further than most people with just an A.A.S., solely on the basis of my performance and ability to learn on my own what I don't know and need to. That and a few good employers who didn't mind giving me a chance. I can't help but feel however that I'm starting to "peak" a little early and if I don't do something I might be sitting in the same job (and pay range) 10-20 years from now (not that it would be entirely a bad thing necessarily). My boss (a BSME) told me recently that 90% of a Manufacturing Engineers job was common sense (heh) and had mentioned that I was already doing both jobs. That's from a guy who used to be a Mfg Eng and now manages them. But... that doesn't get me the title (or money) and he may not always be my open minded boss. SO, I need to come up with multiple avenues to get there. If I had been born rich rather than just darn good looking I wouldn't need to worry about such things I guess. What would you suggest as the best way to do plan it? Taking the theory and upper level math (past Calc I) anyway? Or just not taking any course with the word "applied" in it (i.e. Applied Statics/Dynamics/etc.)? By the way, RIT requires 5 on campus labs as a requirement for the 5 year Technology degree through distance learning. From what I understand it's normally around 3 days each. It did say that other arrangements could be made if you are not within traveling distance which assume means you might could participate in a lab at closer school with a similar program. Having never taken such a lab though, I don't know how it might compare to the ones from the engineering program. Thanks for the help. I may just take some math classes I need here locally while I think about it some more.
Post-BSET/BSMET Degree I've been lately looking into leveling degrees that will bring a BSET (eg BSMET) or BSIT up to the math/theory level of a BSEE/BSME. There aren't many - about a dozen in the USA. A more or less complete list follows (for BSET grads): Purdue (MSET) Arizona State (MSTech) Memphis (MSET) North Texas (MSET) Wayne State (MSET) Kent State (MT) Southern Polytechnic (MSET) SUNY-IT (MSAT) Indiana State (MSECT) Central Missouri (MSIT) Alabama A&M (MSET) Some of these have a heavy DL possibility. There's one especially interesting school I haven't heard much of on this forum: Kent State - which offers a very respectable Master's Degree in Technology earned entirely online. One reason it may have low visibility is the unfortunate name of its degree - "MT" - which sounds like a gasoline shortage and it not the acronym normally used in a Google search for Master's degrees in Engineering Technology. The top five schools on this list are in my view the best to attend if the intention is to build up math/theory to BSEE/BSME levels. Wayne State might be the best school of all for this purpose because it requires three math core courses.
University of North Dakota Welcome to Distance Engineering Degree Programs (Online) ' Accredited by the Engineering Accreditation Commission of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET) University of North Dakota's undergraduate engineering degree programs delivered to students at a distance. Civil Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Electrical Engineering
This is a very interesting thread. I am not an engineer but I know a few engineers and professors of engineering and engineering technology. No one really seems to know exactly what the BSET is meant to do that an AAS can't do just as well. It's very odd. Were someone to ask me what I'd do, I suppose I'd say something like this: "Remember that any four year engineering or ET degree is a large, expensive, time consuming investment in your professional future. This is not the time for halfway measures. If you think that there might be even a possibility of doing engineering, do whatever it takes, borrow however much it costs, forego whatever income you must, and get the bachelor in engineering from an ABET program in your field. "If engineering really isn't your interest, consider carefully whether a good, ABET A.A.S. coupled with a B.B.A. might not be a better move."
When I was running my own company, I hired BSEET and BSIT grads exclusively (plus a couple of AAS techs). A good BSEET is solid for many jobs in an Engineering Department. A Master's in Engineering is getting to be the minimum for real R&D. The BSET/BSIT is normally a terminal degree, and BSEET grads quickly fall behind BSEE grads in salary and responsibilities. (BSIT grads aim for eventual factory management). However, the BSET/BSIT is a big step up from AAS diplomas, and it is a worthwhile career investment.
