TUI once again

Hi,

I was accepted this week in a PhDBA with TUI. I was thinking to apply for Nova too but this TUI sudden acceptance made me to stop this action. I would like to know if TUI still has accreditation problems or not. Besides, I was accepted by UoP and Walden.
Can somebody give me a clue as for which program should I choose?

My overall scope is to teach in coming years not necessarily in USA but in Europe or even Asia. In this respect TUI seems the best school since it states upfront that they prepare PhDs for either entering into Academia or practicing at executive level.

Any piece of advice from a TUI alumni is highly appreciated.

 

If you want to teach in Euro or Asia, look into some of the highly respected DL DBA and PhD programs over there, such as Aston, Manchester, EBS, and Grenoble.

They will hold a LOT more weight in academia than TUI, particularly overseas. All are accredited business schools, and Aston and Grenoble have the added benefit of being accredited by the AACSB (as well as top Euro and UK accreditations), which is the gold standard for the U.S.

I would at least make an attempt at getting accepted to these top-notch programs, because particularly in academia, you'll likely have a tough road to hoe if you go the Walden/UoP/TUI/KW route. At least get rejected by all those good schools before you settle for less.

 

Thanks for your fast response.
I will apply for Henley this month. However, Henley is quite expensive and this might be a problem.

I am thinking to start with TUI and to get a transfer later on if it is possible.

I am still tempted to pursue TUI due to their excellent faculties. Besides, they may obtain an AACSB accreditation in the near future.

 

Is there really a legitimate opportunity for AACSB at Touro? I didn't know that.

AACSB accreditation will be pretty much a prerequisite for the transfer of credit to most AACSB schools. While the AACSB doesn't accredit doctoral programs, it's pretty much understood that you will have a PhD or DBA from a school with an AACSB accredited Masters program to be considered for the vast majority of faculty positions in N. America. Of course, in Europe, there are different accrediting bodies, but as I mentioned earlier, some of the top DL schools over there are AACSB accredited as well.

Just be careful, look before you leap, particularly with a program that's not accredited at the highest levels of its host country. BTW, from what I hear TUI's not a joke, it's just not quite there in terms of reputation with most AACSB programs.

 

I am now totally confused...
I am sure that I can do a B&M PhD program. But, I am sure too that I can't "waste" four-five years in a full-time program.

I am sure that the attitude toward DL will change in the next 4-5 years.

In Canada Queens (in co-operation with Cornell) offers its MBA completely on-line. And it is highly regarded/accredite. Why TUI wouldn't be perceived the same way since it has Stanford, Harvard faculties and its program is a fully-fledged one?

Anyways I have to think deeply before leaping into TUI program.

 

Sorry, not trying to confuse. I'm not knocking DL, I'm in the second semester of a DL MBA program at a large uni right now. Some of the finest B-schools in the U.S. and UK offer online/DL MBAs, such as Duke, Purdue, Indiana, UMass, Syracuse, Florida, AZ State, Warwick (UK), Manchester (UK), University of London Imperial or Royal Holloway. These are all nationally-ranked programs, a few even world-class. But one must tread more lightly when pursuing a doctorate, which is, of course, a research degree, and seldom offered by top schools DL. Some degrees, because of their relatively shaky reputation, may make life difficult for you should you wish to become a tenured prof someday.

You can see in other threads here how people look and look for someone in academia who has their PhD from schools like Walden or UoP or Touro or the like. You'll find some, but not all that many, and often only the lowest level of profs, such as adjuncts--I'm an adjunct at a small university, and I can tell you it's only valuable for the experience and to put on the C.V. Certainly making it at the university level with a lower-regarded degree can be done and has been done, but if other options are available, why not pursue them?

Again, Aston, Manchester, EBS and Grenoble are highly regarded overseas, and they offer DL PhDs or DBAs; most of the coursework can be completed online and via correspondence. These are schools that, if you were to pick them up and drop them into N. America, they'd likely be rated among the top 100 or so programs here, that's how strong they are. Aston and Manchester would likely be ranked top 30 in N. America--truly classy programs. Touro or Nova--which are by no means a joke--aren't ranked near as high. In fact, I've never seen them ranked at all, except for Nova's law school, which ranks in the bottom tier in USN.

Again, while rankings aren't everything (as has been pointed out elsewhere on this forum), if you have a school that's double burdened with not being ranked nor being accredited at the highest levels, you are making a bed that may be a difficult place to sleep down the road.

Google the top Euro schools I mentioned, check out the links on Jonnie's DL Site. Just look into these programs, one of them may save your future career.

 

<<Why TUI wouldn't be perceived the same way since it has Stanford, Harvard faculties and its program is a fully-fledged one?>>

Among other reasons, it's too new to establish a reputation. You will find faculty in some respected US universities who are doing doctoral work at TUI, so that should be somewhat of a good news, but only time will tell how the school will fare reputation-wise.

 

Re: Re: TUI once again

Ummm..... Why would you include Kennedy-Western University in your list of DL Institutions? While TUI is not Harvard, it's regionally accredited. If someone didn't want to hire you in academia because TUI lacks recognition, a TUI PhD can still be utilized in the corporate world/government. A KW PhD will get you nowhere.

 

Re: Re: Re: TUI once again

Fair point, those schools don't really deserve to be lumped into the same category as K-W. Nova and Touro in particular have some degree of B&M respectability, I think I unfairly categorized them with the dreaded K-W.

OH YES.... To the original poster who's considering TUI, why don't you inquire of Professor Kennedy? He's a tenured prof at the very solid Edinburgh Business School, which also has a respected DL doctorate. He'll give you all the insight you need into Euro programs.

 

I cannot understand how (none) American DL Business schools are not AACSB accredited. And some European DL BS are... There is a discrepancy that we have to think of... I think that AACSB will balance it soon. I assume there is a great pressure on AACSB to accredit some of the DL university. I still hope that TUI would be among them!

I thought, so far, that any American RA accredited is better than most of the European schools... It seems to be wrong.

Yes, besides Henlley, Aston is a real option that I want to try. I still regret TUI due to their star (?) faculties...

 

HI there. It is true that American schools are still regarded very highly in Europe and in Asia. In fact, if you look at the world rankings of business schools (I forgot the source but I posted it here about 2 years ago; I can look it up later), most in the top 50 are American. But all of them if not most are AACSB. While there are no DL programs here that come from AACSB schools, there are some in Europe as mentioned in the upper posts.
Grenoble and Henley are the closest thing to an AACSB American school as a result of this American accreditation and their overall great reputation. Plus, they are well known in Europe. And another plus is that this DL prejudice doesn't quite exist in Europe anyway.

I think that you will do well with TUI (since it is RA), but you might as well try for the best most marketable program that you can find and Henley and Grenoble are certainly the ones.
4-5 years is quite a bit of time but from an AACSB school it could mean less time to get a good position after graduation at a top European school.

I think Nova is much more expensive than Touro in the long run (fellas, correct me if I'm wrong) and will demand some residency so this might not be to your advantage. However, Nova has the highest number of DL graduates teaching at good schools than any other non-traditional/DL or DL-BM institution here in the US.

Think it over.

S

 

The AACSB does NOT require a business doctorate to be AACSB accredited for teaching at an AACSB accredited school, period. The bias is the schools themselves, not the AACSB.

I would bet that if there were AACSB accredited US DL doctorates available most US B&M schools would still favor the B&M doctorate over the DL one anyday.

Just my opinion

 

I don't even see them listed as a member of the AACSB:

http://www.aacsb.edu/General/InstLists.asp?lid=1

NSU, University of Phoenix, Capella, Argosy and UNISA are members.

Perhaps I missed something?

 

It's The Economist that you were referring to.

http://mba.eiu.com/index.asp?layout=2002rankings

 

In fact, it's my understanding that the AACSB doesn't even accredit doctoral business programs. I think the only thing the AACSB does is with Masters level programs. Of course, having a PhD, DM or DBA from a program that's attached to an AACSB B-school is sometimes a requirement for a faculty position or your CV and application will quickly find their way into the circular file, so for all practical purposes, those doctoral programs are "accredited" by the AACSB (or not), at least in the minds of many academic hiring committees.

Of course a B&M PhD program would be favored by a hiring committee over a DL one, even if it were a U.S. DL AACSB program. What the AACSB would do is at least technically give the candidate the minimum qualification for virtually any business faculty job in the country. Although, of course, for all but the most entry level of positions, publications and other scholarship will play a heavy part.

I still think that the time's ripe for a nationally-known U.S. business school with AACSB credentials and perhaps an online/DL MBA to take the leap and also offer a DL PhD. Whoever does it first will have their pick of the litter of U.S. DL candidates, and it would go a long way towards establishing DL credibility in academia (at least in business schools). So how about it Duke, Indiana, Purdue, Emory, Florida, AZ State, Syracuse, UMass, Miss State, Nebraska, OK State, Auburn, Florida State?

 

World rankings

Also, don't forget that these so-called "world" rankings are released mostly by American or European publications primarily for American or European readers (and perhaps for other continents' readers to be brainwashed into thinking that only American or European MBAs are the 'best' ones). There are roughly 200 countries in the world, and I think it would be so arrogant and bigoted of us to think that there's no single outstanding program in at least half of these countries. But when you look at the countries included in these so-called "world" rankings, see if these publications even checked programs outside the "regular" countries you read about. I bet you won't find at least a tenth of the roughly 200 countries in the world to have been checked out. It's like the Lakers or some other team claiming to be "world" champions in their sport when only one foreign country, IF ANY, competed with them!

 

What I find interesting is in the economist listing and I didn't do any intensive checking on all the schools listed but I found that at least one was only RA accrediated. (Hult International School of Business)Further more the school is less than a hour from my house and yet I've never hear of it. So much for an MBA with a reputation.

 

AACSB accredits business programs

So yes they accredit PhD or other doctoral programs. Some postings for professors will specify AACSB...

 

Re: AACSB accredits business programs

I know I' m being pedantic here, but I think TECHNICALLY the AACSB doesn't accredit PhD, DM or DBA programs, just MBAs, MS in Accounting, MS in Management, etc.

You're absolutely right that many major universities, when advertising for a Biz Prof position in an AACSB program, will specify that the candidate have a doctorate from an AACSB school. But I think what they're actually saying is that they want a candidate with a PhD from a school that also has an AACSB Masters program, they're just not making the distinction--or don't even know--that the doctoral programs are actually not the programs with which the AACSB concerns itself, just the Masters.

I know, I know, I'm hair splitting. I'm glad to be proven wrong, though, I'm just relating my understanding of the situation.

 

One well known national school has, well, sort of, offered a DL doctorate. Case Western has a DM program that is weekend based. Note, however, that Case differentiates its DM program from their traditional PhD program.

I wouldn't hold my breadth for a major U.S. university to do a DL PhD anytime soon. DL and traditional PhD programs in business at U.S. schools tend to be very different animals. U.S. DL programs are funded with outrageous tuition rates, enroll virtually 100% part-time students and keep cost down by employing lots of adjuncts. Traditional PhD programs typically employ the "graduate school slave trade" approach to funding, using a hand full of full-time students to support research and teaching. A tradtional PhD program isn't a money maker like the for-profit DL programs are - it is an overhead expense done for reputation and to create a pool of cheap labor.

The result? Two very different groups of graduates. The letters after your name may be the same (PhD, DBA, etc.), but the experience is different. No one who knows the difference is likely to confuse a PhD grad from a top business school with a DL PhD (or DBA) grad.

Regards - Andy