University of London Distance Education

Hi everyone, Im writing from San Jose, Costa Rica. Recently I have been considering to apply for a Bsc in Management with Law at University of London Distance Education programme. The concept of distance learning is very new to me, but I really need to get my degree. I hold a mid management position with an american company here, which I obtained thanks to hard work and strong work ethics, but if I want to move on to better positions I need a degree. Im sure many of you have stood where I stand now, I truly would appreciate some advice. If anyone is familiar with the UoL programme please let me know how things are, any tips are valuable. I have my High School transcripts and the printed application on my desk.

I hope everyone is doing well with their plans.

Antonio

 

Hi Antonio,

I'll declare now that I have a conflict of interest as I work for UoL however best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

For some advice I'd suggest you post the same question in the following discussion forums that have been set up by students on programmes that are similar to the one you want to study.

The Malet Street Gazette - http://www.malet.com
‘The Malet Street Gazette’ was set up by George Pappas, an External LLB and LLM graduate. George says: “I saw the need to develop a forum where students and graduates globally could exchange and obtain information.” It has in excess of 1000 people logged on and participating in discussion (Laws students in particular).

You Are Not Studying Alone - http://www.yansa.org
'YANSA' was set up by Johnny Lüchau, a student studying for BSc Economics with a specialism in Politics and International Relations. It is a support forum for all students on the BSc degrees in Economics, Management, Finance and the Social Sciences.

This delphiforum - http://forums.delphiforums.com/LondonLLB - for the LLB was set up by LLB student Doug Krehbiel who says, "The purpose is to provide External Students (like myself) a means to talk, share ideas, ask questions, remain motivated, anything regarding the extremely challenging program we're in."

This group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uolfin - was created by Tomas Drahokoupil for all External Students of the University of London, especially those studying LSE Finance related degrees.

All the best,

Brendan

 

Hi Brendan, I have been meaning to ask you something for a long time. I hope Antonio doesn´t mind I ask here. I apologize in advance if this is inconvenient.

Those diplomas from the University of London for external students, do they show as well the name of the directing college or university (LSE, Imperial, etc,...)? I have read the University regulations and it seems to me that it doesn´t but there is certain controversy about it. I would be very grateful if you could clarify it a bit. Thanks a lot.

 

Current policy is certificates say:

University of London

in association with

Lead College [e.g. Imperial, LSE, etc.]


Name of student

having studied as an External Student and passed the approved examinations has this day been admitted by the University of London to the degree of

Degree name [e.g. Master of Science]

Mention of class [e.g. with Distinction, First Class Honours etc]

in Subject Area [e.g. Dental Public Health]

Signatures of Vice-Chancellor and Rector (or equivalent) of the Lead College

Date

Then at the bottom there is a statement.
"Section 66(2) of the Statues of the University states: 'Candidates granted degrees and other awards shall have attained the same academic standard irrespective of mode or place of study or examination'."

[Apologies for any typos in transcribing this].

The exception is the LLB programme where the programme is offered by a consortium of Colleges.

Hope this helps,

Brendan

 

Be aware of a possible concern.

The University of London LL.B. and other law degrees come out of the COMMON LAW tradition, the tradition of essentially all English speaking jurisdictions.

I would guess, however, that Costa Rica inherited its legal tradition from Spain, like ALMOST every other Spanish speaking jurisdiction.

Spanish law comes from the CIVIL LAW tradition, which is far older and (frankly) better developed than the common law. It traces its roots to the Code of Justinian and the great academies of Europe.

My point is, the law you will learn through the University of London differs in significant, basic ways from the law of Costa Rica and, without additional training, you may not even know what those differences are.

Costa Rica does borrow some of its basic law from the United States. Here again, however, the London degree will not equip you particularly well to deal with American legal institutions.

 

UNISA's LLB includes both common and civil law. Also, the new UoL LLM has a course comprising four units that concentrates on the history of the civil law.

 

Nosborne:

This raises a point I have been wondering about for a while. I have seen several discussions on this board suggesting that US students consider the London LL.B. Now, assuming that most people who seek to obtain a first law degree want to act in some capacity as lawyers (bar or not)--and I'm aware that not all do--does the London LL.B. serve the needs of individuals wanting to work in the US legal system? I know that the traditions are the same, but are the structures of law, research tools, and procedures the same. Don't you need to have been trained in the US legal system in order to adequately function in it?

Just curious.

marilynd

 

I'm not Nosborne, but I think I can answer that for you: in most cases, the LL.B. will not qualify you to sit for a U.S. state bar. I do know that some states will allow you to sit for their bar if you have a foreign law degree and at least one year in a U.S. law school, typically in an LL.M. program (the "Masters" that somehow comes after the "Doctorate"; I'll never quite figure that one out).

As far as I know, even though the systems are both based on the common law tradition, the systems diverged over 200 years ago, and UK precedent--in theory--has no effect on U.S. jurisprudence (in spite of the fact that a few, shall I say, ultra-liberal judges, will occasionally cite precedent from foreign lands when they simply can't find anything to support that which they wish to accomplish in a case--I think Breyer did this in ain a Supreme Court dissent). I doubt an LL.B. would adequately prepare you for the U.S. bar even if you were allowed to sit.

 

It HAS been done, however. I know of at least ONE London external LL.B. grad who passed the California bar and is now admitted in that state. He earned an LL.M. at Widener first, I think.

Thing is, there are only two ways to do it: first, earn an LL.M. from a U.S. ABA school, which means a year in residence, usually at a private and very expensive school OR get admitted as a solicitor or barrister in the U.K.

Neither approach is really as practical as earning a D/L J.D. from a California correspondence school.

By itself, the London LL.B. is not very useful to a would be American lawyer. Now, is it useful to an American who wants a legal background to do law related work other than practicing law?

That depends. If the student is going to work in an international law environment, say, the U.S. State Department or the international division of a major corporation, the degree could prove useful. It a seems to me than an executive for a steamship line, for example, could make good use of an education in English law.

If, however, the individual will be working in an American law environment, even an unaccredited Bar qualifying J.D. would be a better choice. The basic legal systems are just too different. An English LL.B. program doesn't even address the myriad technical details of the legal process (in either jurisdiction) nor does it address the unique and fundamental features of the American system of multiple sovereignties. No American lawyer can work without a solid background in our constitutional law.

The London LL.M. programs, however, are much more theoretical or international in design. An English LL.M. including, say, marine insurance and carriage of goods by sea should be a useful background in New York, Manila, Cairo, Vladivostok, Bejing or Calcutta because it deals with international legal conventions. My program deals with the theory of criminal law and crime control. It deals with problems found in Paris and Capetown and anywhere else there are criminals.

 

Oh, another thought about the UNISA LL.B.

South Africa is a "mixed" civil and common law jurisdiction so it would seem to be a potentially viable choice for our Costa Rican friend.

Maybe.

However, South Africa's civil law comes from the Dutch. It looks much more like the German system than it does the French system and believe me, the two are very different.

Now, the Spanish system is fairly closely related to the Napoleanic Code, partly because Spain was actually ruled by a member of the Emperor's family for a while. And all these European systems influenced, and continue to influence, each other.

But the two great streams of Civil Law thought are the German and the French. (Three, if you include the Socialist stream of Soviet Russia and her satellites.)

I cannot undertake to say whether the Dutch system is even as close to the French system as the French system is to American common law! And South Africa is one step removed from that.

Bottom line: Get your professional degree in the country where you expect to work.

 

There has been a lot of interesting material posted in this thread. As always I've enjoyed Nosborne's take on distance legal education.

A few points about UoL's programme (my comments are based on my experience in the LLB programme, I have no experience with the BSc but the law part is the same):

1- It is a lot of work. No easy degree, you'll have to work pretty hard if you want to do well.
2- People are generally impressed when you tell them you're studying at University of London. It seems to be one distance learning education institution you never have to apologize for stuying with.
3- Consider using one of the tutorial services for the law courses, it helps a lot.

Some general comments about legal education:

Some parts of the LLB are great for someone working in international business. I have directly applied what I learned in both English Legal System and Contract Law. I can't imagine that Land Law would be much use though.

Legal education in general helps you look at problems differentlyand especially gave me a much greater appreciation for the role that criminal law plays in our lives. Even though the law is not directly applicable it has given me a different outlook on crime, even though that was probably not a stated goal of the course.

 

Question for Nosborne

How's the LLM going?

 

Very enlightening. Thanks for your replies. I hope that they assisted our Costa Rican friend as well.

marilynd

 

I am in the bowels of H.L.A. Hart and too confused to ask a question, either of myself or Uncle Janko!

I agree wholeheartedly that an London External student needs a tutorial service.

The London LL.B. certainly carries the same value as a degree in anything does. If you want to choose law because you like it better than English Literature, go for it!

 

In your expert opinion does this also apply to the LL.M? As you already have a J.D.--from New Mexico, by chance?--and practice in criminal law, does this give you a leg up on the LL.M, or do you too think you'll need a tutoring service to run the gauntlet?

 

My heartfelt thanks for all the replies and feedback you have all so generously provided. For one I no longer feel alone and for the other I have recieved lots of enlightment.

I completed up to 4th year of Law School at the University of Costa Rica, one more year to go in order to complete my degree. However, along the way I discovered that I do not want to be a lawyer and began exploring other avenues such as press and now management, both of which I learned in a truly empirical manner. Im quite sure the law courses of UoL are very different to the ones I took at UCR, our legal system is based upon the one we inherited from Spain (Napoleonic Code, Justinian, and what many call Civil Law) for that reason I do not want to take the LLB for this would have little practical application in Costa Rica. The degree Im interested in is called Bsc in Management with Law.

This degree has a very strong concentration in Finance and Human Resources, as well as some Economics. Then of course there are law courses that I find very interesting and will provide useful knowledge for someone who lives in a country that lives from its exports to the European Union and the US; courses such as EU Law and International Trade Law. As for the remaining more british legal courses I intend to take them because our exports to the UK surpass 200 million a year and Im sure someone out there might find my combined knowledge useful. Overall I want to apply for that degree because of two reasons, one being that it provides a perfect combination between my former studies and my current office (Im an Operations Supervisor for a multinational company), and because I want to be a Manager who for the most part will not have to depend on lawyers to solve every single issue, I think it to be a very good combination.

Any thoughts?

 

Yes. Go back to UCR if you can and finish that degree.

 

And if you really don't want to finish your law degree, get an MBA. Pretty much any of the DL MBA programmes in the UK will accept you with your current qualifications. You really are horribly overqualified for an undergraduate management degree.

Angela

 

to Brendan

Hi Brendan,is there ant chance that the UOL eventually removed the words external on its certificate?

Eric

 

Finish the final year of your law degree. Don't get that close to the top of the mountain, then climb back down. That law degree may come in handy--likely will. I would then apply to graduate school, either UoL or U.S. You could do an H.R. Management Master of Science or a Master of Science in Finance and Financial Law at the UoL. http://www.londonexternal.ac.uk/postgraduate/index.php

You could also go the MBA route (I agree with the earlier poster, this would be my recommendation), either through UoL (Royal Holloway has a respected MBA in International Management, Imperial College has one of the highest ranked MBA programs in the world) or through a U.S. school. The University of Massachusetts has a pure online program that's well-respected in the U.S., other programs that are either completely online or with only a handful of short residencies are: Purdue, Indiana, Duke, Florida, Florida State, Oklahoma State, Auburn, Nebraska, Arizona State. Some of those programs are nationally-ranked in the U.S.; Duke, Indiana and Purdue are legitimate powerhouse programs.

You have a lot of options, but first things first: finish the UG degree; even if you don't intend to practice law, I doubt you'll regret it.