University of the Western Cape

Well, here I go again.

I've been invited by Dr. Ernst Conradie of the University of the Western Cape to study for their MTh by thesis only. He said it would require a 50,000 word thesis, and it would cost no more than 1500 U.S. dollars.

Does anyone know anything about this school?

I'll greatly appreciate all opinions and information.

Michael

 

University of Western Cape is one of South Africa's historically black universities (which also means historically underfunded). Traditionally served primarily the "so-called Coloured" community.

It is certainly a legitimate, established (40 years), recognized university, but is not as widely known as the top tier South African universities (e.g. Cape Town, Wits, Stellenbosch).

 

I once made a tour of South Africa, meeting with the Vice Chancellors of a dozen or so universities. Somehow my hosts had scheduled meetings with the heads of Western Cape (then a badly-funded but decent school for "coloureds"--Indians, Asians), and Cape Town (prestigious, well-funded, all white) at the same time. They agreed to meet with me together -- and, as it turned out, it was the first time they'd ever met.

The white man from Cape Town (Sir Richard Luyt), once the very controversial head of government in Guyana, arrived driving his own beat-up Ford. The black man from Western Cape arrived in a chauffeur-driven Cadillac. They kidded each other about this, and clearly came to discover that they were enjoying each other's company. I was later told that they had more than a few meetings exploring ways the two schools could work together.

PS: Around that time, the government declared people of Japanese heritage to be "honorary whites," which meant they could attend all-white universities.

 

John,

All I can say is--Amazing!

Which were the all-white universities?

 

Bear meister,

You really need to write your memoirs and put some of these wonderful anecdotes down on pen and paper. They are priceless!

North

 

Michael asks, "Which were the all-white universities?"

My memory isn't good enough to deal with that one. At the time, I think the academic world smiled (educationally, not politically) most on Cape Town, Witwatersrand, and Stellenbosch, all white then.

In Cape Town, we 'escaped' from the bodyguard that we had been assigned, and walked around town taking pictures. A couple of years later, the Village Voice had a contest to design a political poster. I put together a collage of photos of the many "Whites Only," "No Coloureds" and other such signs, and made it look like a travel poster, under the headline:

South Africa:
For the Discriminating Traveler."

2nd prize. And probably denial of visa, had I tried to return, back then.

 

John,

Thanks again--and I concur with North about your anecdotes!

 

Well, I saw from a thorough reading of the UWC website that they have been described as "the intellectual home of the left". That really doesn't concern me any more than Liberty University's very conservative stance, although this statement as describing the UWC undoubtedly refers to a political position, as well as, perhaps, a religious one.

Anyway, I found it very interesting that Dr. Conradie would invite me to study for the MTh by thesis without first looking at my transcript; I did, however, thoroughly describe my undergraduate degree, and I noticed that the admissions criteria for the UWC MTh allows for an undergraduate degree in a related discipline.

The required lenth of the thesis and the cost are somewhat more than what I've found at other South African universities.

Is a 50,000 word master's thesis a longer one than what is usual?

 

As a guide the thesis/dissertation lengths generally in Australia are:

PhD full research 100K - accept 85K

Masters thesis only 50-60K
Masters major thesis 35K (plus 1 years F/T coursework)
Masters minor thesis 25K (plus 1.5 years FT coursework)
Honours Thesis for a Bachelors 18-21K in 1 year FT.

Peter French

 

There is a rumour and i sincerely hope that it is only that, and that is that South African degrees are NOT accepted in every country.

Tom Head may be able to comment - Tom?

I have heard it here in Australia and am attempting to get to the bottom of it - is it true, false, or a previous practice in the prior period?

Peter French

 

With all the discussion about doing foreign graduate degrees, the above information provided by Peter is important. In the British system (followed by the UK, Australia, and South Africa, the three most discussed countries here), the thesis is usually--but not always--the only requirement for the degree. As a result, the student does a lot of research in areas where a graduate student in the U.S. would do coursework. As a result, you should expect to do a much longer and more comprehensive thesis or dissertation than you would in a graduate program in the U.S.

Some of the Australian professional doctorates (like the Ed.D. and D.B.A.) are now coursework and research combined. One's thesis/dissertation in such a program would be lessened, sort of. For example, the University of Southern Queensland's D.B.A. program requires three years of study past the M.B.A. The student takes four courses related to his/her business specialty, then a research methods module. The next three "courses" are dressed up as research into contemporary business issues, but are really lead-ins to the dissertation. The result of these three "courses" is a dissertation proposal and literature review. The student is then left with conducting the research project and finsihing the degree. So, while there are some actual courses (five, in this case), the bulk of even this program is research.

Rich Douglas

 

This is an old rumor! It is true that in the early 1700's South African degrees had little acceptance. At that time only a few majors were offered, e.g., head-hunting, lion-taming, bongo-playing, etc. And, as one might guess, there is little market for such degrees today.

However, since the current South African university system is comprised of 21 universities, each modeled after the British paradigm of education, the degrees have broad acceptance. According to AACRAO, a degree from Potchefstroom for example, would be recognized in the US as equivalent to RA.

The only place a SA degree might not be accepted is Norfolk Island, since a university is already established there.

Russell

 

Yes but a Japanese male who thought that "honorary white" status would give him access to everything he wanted in apartheid era South Africa was wrong. He was jailed for tying nuptial knots with a while female. The white female however did not suffer the same consequence.

Ike

 

Ike points out: "Yes but a Japanese male who thought that "honorary white" status would give him access to everything he wanted in apartheid era South Africa was wrong. He was jailed for tying nuptial knots with a while female. The white female however did not suffer the same consequence."

Clearly understanding the nuances of the law was essential then. Wonder if it still is.

We were there one time when the album "The Wall" had just come out. Needless to say, it was banned. But the banning commission didn't know it was a two-record album, and they technically only had banned the first record. And so the album with the first record removed was on sale everywhere, immensely popular, until the banning commission met, a week later, and banned the second record as well.

 

At least the Afrikaaners got the better of the two albums--even if only for a week. Song #6 on album two, "Comfortably Numb," has one of the best guitar solo's in rock history.

Russell,
Who started playing guitar at age 13.

 

No, it is no longer the same. Such laws were abrogated even before the death of apartheid was officially proclaimed.

Ike

 

I have checked my source - current South Africans working here - Human Resources, IT are 2 I have spoken to. Their degrees are pre-Mandella and are NOT accepted as valid degrees. They are quite accepting of this and say that this is the general experience of their friends on other parts of the globe CURRENTLY.

Incidentally the issuing univeristy is not the critical point - the date of graduation is.

Peter French

 

If it is the date, it is safe to say that the issue is one of political correctness. I know that when I first read Bear's Guide I liked the sound of UNISA's program but felt that might not be a good idea based on the apartheid issue. I think it is safe to say that the educational standards were certainly high during that era but that the issues involving race tainted those diplomas.

Interesting discrimination. That would be like anyone having graduated from a Southern US University in the 1960's having their diploma considered tainted. I must say I find the logic of what the individuals (assuming they are SA) are experiencing suspect. It would seem less reasonable to subject South Africans who attended their own Universities during this era to harassment based on the date of completion, than to be concerned with others from outside South Africa who chose to study at an insitution within SA during Apartheid.

Having said that I have seen faculty listed in different University/seminary catalogues who obviously graduated from UNISA during apartheid. They equally obviously got faculty jobs.

North

 

Can anyone tell me, what is the reputation of the University of the Western Cape--the school as a whole, and the Faculty of Theology?

 

I'm skeptical.

What were Peter French's informants saying, exactly? That their degrees are not accepted in Australia as a matter of policy? If so, who sets that policy, NOOSR? Does NOOSR really blacklist entire nations' higher education systems for political reasons?

Or were these people simply saying that they have met some employment discrimination in Australia because they were South Africans?