my experience in the Harvard ALM

I've gotten a lot of questions about the Harvard ALM degree, and while I can't address them all right now, I'll start in this thread and elaborate later.

First, and I can't stress this enough, the degree is NOT NOT NOT a DL degree. There are some online courses, and if you take the ALM in IT, you can probably do all but a semester online. You will have to take that semester in Cambridge, though, and if you do the ALM in any other field, you'll have to take the overwhelming majority of your classes in Cambridge.

I'm rather unsatisfied with the program at the moment, largely because it lacks what I think is the necessary theoretical background to engage properly in my field (government). This year's class offerings in government were less than half the number offered last year. This happens on other fields as well.

Again with the exception of IT and probably the sciences (and maybe the new professional degrees like Museum Studies), this is not a quick degree, and depending on your field, it might take some number of semesters before you get sufficient coruse offerings to fill the various requirements.

The thesis component (again, the IT degree differs in the nature of this requirement) will keep this from being a quick degree even if you can take all of your classes in a short time. The recommended time from proposal process to completed thesis is 18 months. It can be done more quickly than that, but probably not in less than a year. The time you have to write the thesis itself once your proposal is accepted and you faculty advisor is assigned, by the way, is 9 months.

All that said, the faculty are incomparable, and the opportunity to do serious work if you are so driven is amazing. Harvard's resources, all of which are available to enrolled candidates, are wonderful, and have offered me great support in my research. (I study genocide and transitional justice.)

The resources, particularly the library system, are the main reason that I feel the utility of this degree would be greatly reduced if it were taken by DL. In general, I'm not the unbridled fan of DL that many people here are (other than one Excelsior exam and a traditional correpondence statistics class at a local community college, all of my credits were done in classrooms). I do however appreciate the value of nontraditional education. I just think that what Harvard has to offer is best experienced by direct interaction with faculty and in-person use of the University's resources.

Someone asked me about course offerings. Extension candidates are largely restricted the the Extension offerings, which, despite this year's dearth of government classes, are generally good. (Linguistics is the major exception I can think of here. Talk to the folks at Extension before you embark on a linguistics ALM.) If this degree is your ultimate goal, you don't really need to worry about the lack of theory that I mentioned earlier; the bits of theory that you get will be enough to carry you through the program. My goal is a PhD at Harvard, BU, or Fletcher, so you might consider what I have to say about the program with that in mind.

It is possible to take classes in other Harvard schools. They are more expensive, there's a limit to the number you can take per semester, they are not DL, and there's an application process that must be completed far in advance. Some people seem to stroll into classes in other schools, some seem to have slightly more difficulty. I can't think of anyone who has tried and failed to get in to a GSAS or Law or Public Health, etc. class.

Summer School classes are generally applicable to the ALM, as long as they're taken for graduate credit. They're intense, and I found taking two at once to be a challenge. They're also about $2000, which is ~$500 more than an Extension School graduate class. The Summer School publishes guides for students in other Harvard schools, so it's easy to tell what a particular course will count for.

Advising in the ALM program is excellent as well. (As is the advising in the Extension certificate program from which I transferred to the ALM.) They're great at answering their email and on the phone. I highly recommend that anyone seriously considering the program not hesitate to address the ALM staff, or any of the staff at the Extension School. (Well, except maybe Academic Affairs. They're helpful but surly.)

Feel free to post questions to this thread, and I'll be happy to answer them. It's probably more generally useful to do it this way than it is for me to answer lots of individual questions.

 

The admissions process is straightforward. You must have an accredited degree, or foreign equivalent. GPA is not considered. No tests are required. Take three Harvard classes (including the research proseminar, which should really, IMNSHO, come at the end of the degree rather than the beginning) with a B or better. Write two essays (one on why you want to be in the program, one on a book that was influential in your life; these might vary from year to year, I don't know; I dodged the book question and wrote about a class of books, reference books, and their influence on me). Write a $75 check. It can take up to eight weeks for them to process the application. I needed them to do it more rapidly for financial aid reasons, and they were quite accommodating.

 

My own experience was different in that it was in the ALB program, not the ALM program. Also, I graduated in 1986 so there were no DL courses at all. Every class was "butt-in-lecture-hall." Beyond that my experience was essentially the same as Mr. Idea. The instructors were excellent as were the libraries and other resources. I always found the support staff in good humor and willing to go out of there way to assist. I would emphasize the need for careful planning as every course is not offered every semester so if there are specific courses you want to take you need to look ahead and figure out how to work them into your total program. Also, at the time I was involved, the Harvard Extension courses were actually cheaper than the night school courses offered at the local state universities. That may not be true today but I believe the prices are at least reasonable (considering what you're getting).
Jack

 

"Mr. Idea", I like that!

My name is Gadi.

 

Similar

Almost all my credits were earned through traditional classroom. When I enrolled at Excelsior I had already 90 semseter hours in credit from traditional classrooms and just need a few more credit to get my degree. It only took me about three months to finish up my degree.

 

Re: Similar

I had gotten a credit evaluation from Regents. I didn't have the money to enroll at the time, so I took a stats class and the World Population exam. When I enrolled (after the name change), I actually had already completed my degree.

 

Thank you...

Nice thread, Gadi - Mr. Idea -

Many great private urban universities have tried to make themselves available to locals through the MLA - Master of Liberal Arts degree. This incorporates flexibility and, usually, a reduced rate of tuition.

Examples? Columbia, Duke, Penn, Washington U at St. Louis, Stanford, Northwestern.

The problem with the MLA is the emphasis on broad interdisciplinarity. This leads to requirements against specialization. (I particularly like Columbia's requirement of 36 credits, only 30 of which need be graduate; this encourages students to take foreign languages or math without being unduely directive). This has become the raison d'etre (sp?) of the MLA: it well-serves general learning, but under-serves the career transitioning adult student!

This means that larger schools with adult evening student populations have to supplement the MLA with other degrees - Wash U with the MA in American Culture Studies, for example. Hopkins and Penn have similarly expanded with a small portfolio of flexible master's degrees, most innovatively the latter (for fall 2005), with the Master of Applied Positive Psychology, organized by Martin Seligman.

I could be wrong here, but Harvard appears to stand alone in eschewing broad-based requirements. They offer specializations many others offer, but require thematic specialization in place of general distribution education in arts and sciences typical of the MLA. In fact, they assume, as with the proseminar, disciplinary specialization.

Furthermore, the MLA typically requires only a research paper of suitable originiality - 20 to 30 pages. Harvard is different in requiring a genuine thesis length paper - 70 or so pages.

Finally, in addition to making many sylabi available for inspection online (which some, like Duke, also do), the Harvard ALM thesis proposal instructions are online. This is of sufficient detail and overarching general structure to be useful to others doing any kind of advanced arts and sciences work, MA, MS, or MLA - it helps guide scholarly development. (I downloaded a copy and had it bound at Kinko's; it's helped me in developing my research and master's degree planning.) It's quite impressive.

Now, Excelsior has introduced the MLA degree - totally by DL. They claim to have made these courses available to undergrad students - but has anyone taken any? Do my above observations about the Harvar ALM agree with your knowledge, Gadi?

Good info, again.

-Orson
MSc student - University of London external programme

 

Yes, Orson, your observations definitely mesh with my understanding of the program. I can't think of another Master of Liberal Arts program that I've seen that has been as focused. For my purposes, in fact, the curricula generally strike me as having an annoying distraction built in.

For the Harvard ALM, seven of the nine required classes for the degree cover various requirements (seminars, writing intensive classes, electives, etc.) in the area of concentration. And as you noted, the thesis is a full-length work, including a literature review and original research on a problem in your field, supervised by a member of the Harvard faculty.

The two remaining courses can come from any field other than the concentration, but there's a strong push for them to be courses that directly relate to the research, as opposed to being an introduction to another liberal arts field. Further, for many of the concentration fields, one of the two electives is either required or strongly suggested to be a mathematics or statistics course to support quantitive research in the concentration.

The ALM has been moving in the direction of depth instead of breadth for quite some time. I wouldn't be surprised to see the math/stats requirement become mandatory at some point, though I'd rather see a required theory course, at least in government.

 

BTW Orson...

Which MSc are you pursuing?

 

Re: BTW Orson...

Gadi-

Environmental management.
http://www.ic.ac.uk/distancelearning/

In deference to dominant American usage (and understooding), however, I usually say "environmental science and policy" - a more coherent description stateside.

Although Yale and Syracuse comport with London's (and euro) nomenclature, "environmental studies" (Colorado, Penn) and "envir sci & policy" (Hopkins, Minnesota, Denver) dominate here - but especially the latter.

On the one hand, even to US people established in environmental fields, just saying "environmental management" has met with miscomprehension and blank stares and queries like "what is that, exactly?" Too many confuse it with business "management" because of its utilitarian connotations.

On the other hand, no one misunderstands the important utility of "civil and environmental engineering" when it comes to watershed management and wastewater sanitation.

The term "environmental management" is so firmly established across the pond that the London program (IF one takes certain courses), qualifies one for certification by the UK professional association, the Institute for Environmental Management and Assessment (IEMA).

To confuse matters even more, consider Canada!
The book "Tools for Environmental Management: A Practical Introduction and Guide," Dixon Thompson, ed., has entirely western Canadian authorship; they all have either business, engineering, "environmental studies" or "environmental science" educational backgrounds. In the US, literally, only once have I met a PhD in "Environmental Science." His alma mater? UCLA - go figure.

I assume the confusion and profusion of terms decends from American federalism - and populist tradition of decentralism - just as in US higher education.


Now, back to Harvard's ALM and its exceptionally focused nature - Gadi.

Have your classes been mostly lecture/papers/exams? Entirely? What about class sizes? How about the proseminar? Lots of writing, I'm sure - but size and discussion?

One decidedly unique (and unalterable) feature of your program is that 8 (out of 9?) courses must be tought by Harvard faculty. Since adjuncts, temporary faculty or borrowed profs are common in all university extension staffing (even Harvard's) - what have you heard is behind this requirement? How is it rationalized?

-Orson
PS I was at a conference last May and attended a planel on US sovereignty. Two of the four panelists were poli sci theorists - the well-known Richard Bensel and the unknown (because young) Burke Hendrix, both at Cornell. In chatting with Burke, I was surprised that he did his doctorate at Colorado not a place known for doing theory. He agreed that starting out in a neglected specialty like theory was daunting - but suggested these things go in cycles. (All his theory cohorts got jobs.) He went on the market when theorists were finally in demand. They sure weren't 10 years ago when he started. Plus, today, every department wants one - the Old Guard is retiring

An old friend teaches theory at Barnard College (Columbia). http://cedar.barnard.columbia.edu/~polisci/faculty/fried_j.html
He went ABD in history at Berkeley before deciding that he really wanted to do poli theory. Subsequently, he spent many many years at Yale doing poli sci until the market turned around. Perhaps Harvard simply resists following (or anticipating) the trends?

 

A few more Q's...

Gadi-

A few more questions.
"How can I present the ALM on my resume?

"Harvard University, Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies, Concentration in History

"Unacceptable: Harvard University, MA in History"
But can the acceptable way be reduced to "Harvard University, ALM, History?"

This degree is vey close to being a true MA - but, of course, is not!

And although you suggest 18 months to complete the degree, the FAQ says 2 years minimum.
What do your sources say? I shorter - if one is more productive - doable?
(Obviously, awarding of a degree might be longer than the reasonable time spent working on it; even the FAQ says 3 years is average.)

-Orson

 

The FAQ can say whatever it wants. Of course "MA" is unacceptable, because that's not the name of the degree.

But if the folks at 51 Brattle think I'm going to spend my time explaining what "extension studies" means, they're nuts. Almost everyone I know who holds or is pursuing the degree uses something like "Harvard University, ALM in Government" or "Harvard University, Master of Liberal Arts in Govenment" and maybe a mention of their thesis topic. This is pretty much how all Faculty of Arts and Sciences grad students refer to the university, by omitting the name of the school. (People don't usually say "Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, AM in Government," for example.)

The 18-month estimate is the standard amount of time suggested for the thesis, not for completion of the degree. A driven person with luck on their side (in terms of course offerings and finding a thesis advisor) might be able to pull off the whole degree in 18 months, but two years is a more reasonable minumum.

My classes have been mostly lectures, with one seminar so far. I try to avoid exams in general, because I feel like I get more out of writing papers, but the courses offered tend to have a mix. One professor allowed me to substitute a 20-page paper for the final exam. (And I've just read that the country I wrote about in the paper is considering doing exactly what I suggested in the paper a year ago. Woo-hoo!)

Class size varies from fewer than 10 in the Irish Politics class a friend is taking to 60 or so in Genocide. Seminars are limited to 19. (Course enrollments are available to the public via the Extension website, by the way, under "course search".)

My proseminar was, bar none, the worst class I have ever taken in my life. (And I once took a class called "Embracing Diversity: The Ideals of a Democratic University" at UMass. Because it was interdisciplinary, it counted as one of my science requirements. I am not making that up.) Anyway, the proseminar had two instructors, one of whom would have been excellent were it not for the influence of the other. The discussions ranged from useless to stupefying. The papers would have been very useful if 1) they had been directed by someone who didn't rate the utility of academic work based on his own interest in the topic (in the most spectacular case, rejecting an idea that another professor and now an entire country seemed to like just fine) and 2) they had been done later in the program, so that they might have comprised actual productive work, rather than requiring a number of busywork topics that almost nobody in class had any intention of revisiting. This was quite a shame, because the proseminar is designed around the thesis process, and if it came at the end of the program, it would be the ideal forum for someone who had taken all their coursework to write their actual thesis proposal.

The Harvard instructor requirement is justified because it assures that holders of the ALM degree will have the majority of their program (and the exact number of courses required for several nonthesis master's degrees at Harvard) taught by the same faculty that teach all other Faculty of Arts and Sciences grad students. Other than occasional complaints about a particular semester's offerings being limited, most people don't have a problem with the HI requirement. Also, all seminars, proseminars, and Summer School classes are taught by Harvard instructors, and the thesis director is a faculty member as well, so the program builds in a certain number of classes that qualify.

I'll be taking my one and only non-Harvard instructor class this spring.

 

It's true...

Gadi-

It's true - most programs require a proseminar in the second half of a program. This, do it early thing is deviant. I sympathize, but it sounds like you've managed to pull the proverbial rabit out of a hat and made the experience work for you.

Instructors that only want people to echo their own thoughts are a plague, indeed. But surely there is some sort of student/prof rating system for student to avail themselves of! (It's tooexpensive were this otherwise.)

I like your staunch good sense on resume referencing. I remember when the University of Minnesota offered the same undergrad degree through extension that they do via "day" school; later it was changed. Why? While Arts evening courses were taught by regular faculty - science, engineering, and business courses were increasingly taught by adjuncts, diluting quality; thus extension taught degrees diminished the value and reputation of regular degrees taught by the tenured faculty. Currently, I've no idea!

But few schools demarcate "extension" studies like Harvard - typically urban universities, though, do. But Penn, for instance, offers theirs though the "College of General Studies" intended to serve part-time and typically evening students, whether undergrad or grad. Columbia admits MLA students through the General College as well, but all courses are regular courses - regardless of the time when they meet - and the masters are still regular GSAS degrees. Not that it matters on the res.

Now, there are two kinds of grad courses. Lower-level that often (or mostly) serve upper level undergrads; grads are simply expected to do more and better work. And grad-level courses for grads alone. It sounds like Harvard summer courses are mostly (almost all?) of the former. (Or am I wrong?) And of course the proseminar is for grads solely. (Or is senior thesis writing still de rigor.... Do they "mix and match" student levels? One remembers Henry Kissinger's famous impact on them - their length had to be limited because he wrote such overbearing tomes!)

And finally, Gadi, what about recommendations? Your Harvard efforts will not be complete without hunting up and pinning down recommenders for your PhD apps.... what have you heard? By reputation, private school faculty are more generous at doing this - public ones, more miserly.

Thanks for your detailed responses, Gadi.

-Orson

 

OBSTACLES or ADVANTAGES?

Perhaps the least attractive aspect of the Harvard ALM are the multiple reqiurements for gaining access to GSAS classes: three extension classes w/3.5 GPA, instructor recommendations, permissions, AND - most onerous of all for fast-trackers, ultra early application (Sept 15 for Spring, Feb 15 for the next @#$% fall).

Columbia's MA in liberal studies has none of these obstacles, nor does Georgetown's MALS, and Penn only has grad group permission in ones way.
These obstacles make the Harvard ALM more of an extension grad degree than the rest. Or does the "Harvard" name and rep justly compensate?

-Orson

 

Those are all great schools and I'd be happy to have a degree from any of them. Are these others DL degrees? I don't think the Harvard ALM program was designed to be a DL degree program. Historically, the people who went the Harvard Extension route simply lived in the area. They didn't move to Cambridge to go to HES. I'd bet that the number of people who take all online courses and then move to Cambridge (from wherever) in order to do that last semester on-campus is quite small. I'd be willing to bet that the main reason Harvard even started providing online classes was just to try to ease up on the Cambridge parking problem.
As for the resume issue, I typically write:
Harvard University, Bachelor of Liberal Arts, 1989
If anyone asks I tell them that it's from the Extension School. The ALB isn't offered anywhere else besides the Extension School. Besides, it's my Masters degree that carries the weight now, not my Bachelors.
Jack

 

Orson, the ALM isn't some hidden back door to other parts of Harvard; it's a desirable and engaging program in its own right. If someone wants a GSAS degree, they should apply there. If they want an ALM and it's terribly important to them to include courses at Harvard's other schools, then they need to read the requirements and be willing to invest sufficient time.

 

About Harvard and DL: Yes, the Extension School offers some distance courses, and yes, a large portion of some programs can be undertaken via those courses.

Nevertheless, Harvard is not going to eliminate the residency requirement for Extension degrees. I am sure this is largely to maintain the prestige of Harvard degrees by not offering them extremely widely (my guess is that enrollment would skyrocket if degrees were offered without residency, and the University probably isn't interested in that) and by not awarding Harvard degrees to people who've never been to campus.

 

Re: OBSTACLES or ADVANTAGES?

While cross-pollination is offered, constraints exist between most of the Harvard schools. If GSAS courses are your goal (or Medical or Divinity or Dental or Design...) then apply directly.

Even the M.I.T. Sloan students need special permission to take HBS courses.

 

I'm curious. What is the typical reaction in that scenario?

Is there an understanding of the HES or do you spend more time explaining it?

Is there a positive/negative response?

 

It has never come up at all. Not once. I believe this is because any job I have applied for (since 1989) has been on the merits of my Masters degree in Social Work. At that point employers are somewhat interested in which Social Work school you attended, extremely interested in your clinical internships, your references and your licensure status. Where you got your Bachelors degree is a non-factor. Every once in a while someone (in an interview or just in casual conversation) will ask, "Hey, I knew a guy who went to Harvard. Did you ever meet ________?" My answer typically is something like, "No. I took all my classes at night and most of the students are in the main programs that operate during the day."
Jack