How good is an Associates degree in America?

A close friend recently complained to me about the trouble they were having in finding a job. They previously used to work not to long ago as Production Manger for a small company in Louisiana. Now, they are looking around for a new job with only Associates in graphic design but years of experiences working in that filed. I suggest to her that she go back to school and complete a bachelor degree and it will give her more of an edge in the job market. She immediately and angrily told me that she have no plans of racking up four years of school loans at age 38 to obtain a college degree. She also went on to say that with her long work, experiences combined with her Associates makes a strong candidate for any job she chooses.

Hmmm…Now, I have personally always been told by Family and other friends that a college degree is needed in this world to survive the job market. However, with all these TV shows that display non-degree holders like movie stars and athletes living wealthy lives it makes average people like my friend believe that they can succeed with out a bachelor. Personally, I feel high profile people are folks that got lucky. I still explained to my friend “A college degree doesn’t guarantee you a successful life, only you can make your own success; but a bachelor’s degree can lay the foundation”.

My friend still refuses to see the light and is now thinking of taken a job at a sandwich stand until she finds a better paying job. To me I feel she’s just looking at a future of dead end jobs with out a bachelor or maybe I’m wrong and people this day and age can still choose not to hold a bachelor and be financially alright!!!!

 

My $0.02:

I'd look at what the newspaper/job listing says - if it says "Bachelor's required", then it'll be hard to get past HR unless you know someone. However, if it says "Bachelor's or equivalent experience required", or "Bachelor's preferred" or something like that...then it probably depends on the individual.

I think that your friend's comment about "4 years of school loans" is incorrect. As she has an Associates' degree (I'm assuming it's from a Regionally Accredited school), around 50% of the degree requirements are probably already met. However, if she wishes to change careers then I'm sure all bets are off as to how many credits are needed.

Is a degree required? Probably not. Does it make you more competitive in a market where jobs are hard to come by? I'd think so. However, if your friend has made contacts over the years they'd probably take her on based solely on her experience, aptitude and attitude.

Cheers,
Mark

 

Seems to me that she is mistaken.

Seriously though, many people go back to college at her age in order to improve their employability.

It is very likely that her experience has more of an impact on her employability than her degree. This is generally the case. The degree gets you the first job - the experience keeps it and moves you up (or not). It is possible then that her particular experience is having a negative impact on her employability.

It is an absolute fact, that in many situations, a 4-year and no experience is worth far more than a 2-year and 20 years experience. These are situations in which a BA/BS is required in order to apply for the job at all. Often, the best qualified candidate (based on experience) doesn't even get an interview.

Many "movie stars" and "athletes" do indeed have a post-secondary education. I can't say "most" have a degree but I expect that it's more than we give credit too. Of course, the "teen idols" don't have a degree because they are too young -- many of the adult "stars" do have time in college.

some following examples did not complete a degree program but did attend college, others have a degree (or two):

* Reese Witherspoon - Lit., Stanford
* Mark McGrath - Comms, USC
* Josh Harnett - Drama, SUNY
* Lisa Kudrow - Biology, Vassar
* Brad Pitt - Advertising, U Mo.
* Mick Jagger -- London Sch. of Econ.
* Bill Gates -- Harvard
* Michael Dell -- UT Austin
* Stockard Channing -- Hist. and Lit., Harvard and Radcliffe

Just a few examples... Whether their experiences in college expanded their creativity and fame (and wealth) or if they would have gained notoriety in any event is a matter for debate.

One can argue that some of these "don't have a degree" and are presenting a valid point but, it remains that they all did go to college for at least some period of time...

 

AS dwgree in technology, networking and applied sciense
are very good initial credentials.

She can try to test out for BS or BA degree work wih one of the big 3.

I know people with RA Bachelors degree who work as delivery curier driver, BA in business from USC.

I know people with more advanced degrees who drive truck's or shuttle for living.

Degree is usually very important credential to have.

Job hunting and employment is deferent set of skills.

And Luck yes luck, timing, networking - who you know helps.

Don't blame it on degree, it's better to have AS degree than just high school diploma or equivalency.

 

Is she looking for work as a graphic designer, or a production manager?

A friend of mine is finishing her AAS in Graphic Design at a community college. She already has a BA in German, but she wanted to change careers, hence, going back to school for the AAS.

Finding work in graphic design is also based a lot on your design skills, and not just the degree, but already having the BA gives her a whole lot more places she can apply to as opposed to her classmates with only the AAS.

As for any type of management position, usually you at least need a Bachelors. Even the store manager at my local Starbucks has one.

It is certainly possible that your friend can find a job based on her experience and AA, but I think it might require her moving to an area with more job growth, or just a lot more time.

Another friend of mine graduated with a PhD in marine biology, and now is one of the top dolphin researchers in the world. Her first job after finishing her PhD was as a waitress at a sports bar. She did that for a year until she found a full-time position in her field.

 

guitarmark2000

Has got it about right. I don't know what your friend is thinking, but they need to re-think things out again. Most positions these days if they ask for a 4 yr degree, you probaly are going to have to have it just to get your foot in the door and past HR.

To prove your point to your friend, have her send out a couple of resumes stating she has a BS degree and see if she get more responses back. Then, hey you can prove your point then.
Also, you are never too old to go get a education; there is always something new she could learn or gain from getting further education. If she already has a 2 yr degree, she would only have to pay for other 2yrs to get a 4 year degree, unless she went to some technical school where none of her credit will transfer over to a 4 yr school. Also, most companys offer tutition reimbursement so it there would not be a dime coming out her pocket. Ask your friend how she expects to compete with the people who has her experience and a 4 year degree which she does not have? Point blank, you can't, unless you know someone who can get you in with your current qualifications. In this market/economy, sometimes having experience only does not cut it; you will not get very far if you are not attempting to improve yourself on the side in terms of education and so on. You have to think what others may have that you don't and who you may be competing with to get the position/job. I am in the IT industry, and I know alot of people took that route of not getting some type of 4 yr degree while working and some of them are paying the price now because most companies/HR are requesting 4 yr degrees as a minimium criteria for applying for these IT jobs.
Maybe she will choose to rethink that decision over once she has been unemployed for awhile.

Hey it is a tough market/economy out there, only the strongest folks survive.

 

You have some very good ideas! I think I might try them out on her... Couple other reasons she claims that is causing her not to go back to school is the fact that she has a one year old daughter to take care of and the burden of earn money would all fall on her husband shoulders who also I might add drop out of college his Junior year...

I totally disagree with her so called reasons for not going for one her daughter can be taken care by her mother or sister who glady wants to help out. As for her husband carryning the burden well yes but only for a while;I feel it would help them both in furtue terms if at least one of them had a college degree. By atleast she or even him holding one can open up more job choices.

I just hate to see her struggle even more as this world requires more of higher education then what she has to offer at the moment.

 

I do believe that a BA degree will open doors to many job opportunities.

There are three colleges that may accepts all her credits.

Excelsior College https://www.excelsior.edu

Thomas Edison State College http://www.tesc.edu/

Charter Oak State College http://www.cosc.edu/


If they accept all her credits, lets say 60, then she will only have to complete around 20 courses. Excelsior college offers a Bachelor of Science in liberal studies. The BLS will accept and allow her to take variety of course from different colleges and universities. Tell her that she may pursue a BLS with a focus in graphics design from excelsior college or an offered major. Tesc or Charter Oak may offer programs effective for her as well.

There are other cost efficient options out there.

-- Ohio University offers a Bachelors of Specialized studies.

http://www.ohiou.edu/univcollege/degree/special.htm

-- Amberton University

http://www.amberton.edu

-- Fort Hays State University

http://www.fhsu.edu/virtualcollege/


Other suggestions:

--- If she is very experienced, companies at other regions of the country may use her talents.

--- She may try california, miami, new york or other big cities ( although she will face heavier competition ).

--- Your friend may try to optain a job at a radio or movie production studio and company

--- Small towns with their own television networks are great opportunities to get your foot in the door. I have known college graduates with BA's who were hired to work as production supervisors at tv stations in small towns and cities.

--- Your friend may create her own small company. It may be internet based, offering graphics design, classes, and consulting.
She may advertise graphics design services and classes to the population where she lives. Here is a website that caters to louisiana incorporation. : http://www.legalzoom.com/index.html
If she desires to start a company, to form a limited liability company may be a good choice for her.

--- Once she obtains the BA degree, with her experience, she may teach graphics design at a community college

--- Is there a public access channel where she lives? Your friend may start a show of her own. Nice on the resume.

--- The federal government does provide grants to prospective entrepeneurs who are interested in starting a non-profit production studio. To support operation costs, she may charge a resonable fee to those who wish to use the studio and hold classes. Using the studio, she may offer web design services and even contract with companies in the us and international.


Hope this helps


Ray

 

I already told her about those schools and how she'd really not have to complete four years of college since she got two years worth of college credit. But she told me that if she had to go back to school it be for atleast a Masters program and not a Bachelor degree Okay, let me get this right she feels that just because she has eight years job experinces working that she should be able to skip the Bachelor and get a Masters! Look I had Five years working in at my job as a supervisor and I still got the Bachelor first.... I think she needs a serious reality check....

 

Ok let me see if I get this right she is complaining about completing 2 more years for a BS degree costing money. A master degree would cost even more money $$. I have read talks on this board about skipping BS degree and going straight to a MS but I don't know if that is a easy thing to do or if it is even possible. Also for work wise, she could still work at least Part time while going to school (If her parents help out with her one child ) Heck I have worked full time and a part time gig while going to school full-time. Lets see that is 40hr for Full time job per/wk + 20 hrs per/wk, then school full-time on top of that and I have managed to survive going to school ( but then again I don't have a child to factor in there, but if somebody is able to help out with her child, I don't see where the problem is with her going back to school; )

 

I think she just doesn't want to go back to school at all. As for her moving away to find more work she says she can't cause that would mean leaving her husband behind and baby. Her husband has a job that pays alright at bellsouth with good benefits but it's still not enough for three people to live off. Hence, why she is tryn so hard to find work. I keep telling her a quick wage job can only solve your problem for a little while until your laid off again..

I knew of another friend who had a college degree and her husband only had a high school diploma but he had a very good plant job. Well, she got great job offer out of state; but had to turn it down because her husband refused to leave his job. He worried that with only a high school diploma in a larger unknown city it'd be harder for him to find a job. So, they stayed in there home town were everyone knew him and he got a good job as for his wife she had to take a pay cut by staying in there small town. But do to her college degree she still makes more them him and they or in the upper middle class range.

I wish my friend realized how a degree can sometimes up your pay like my other friend.

 

If she is interested in going straight for the Masters, how about heriot watt universites MBA. No bachelors needed. Later on, she may complete a BA if she wishes. Who knows... she may decide to do a doctorate.

If all else fails ( and I do mean all ) and she wants a degree by experience alone, how about http://www.amsteaduniversity.org
<--- just kidding

Seriously, you may try and use "reverse psychology". Ask her to apply for admissions to a ra accredited graduate program. Be on her side, encorage, and support her beliefs. Tell her to include a resume and cover letter with application detailing why she should be admitted to the program. The universities or colleges may tell her that she needs a BA. Thus, through progressive failure, she may see the light and rational to pursue a BA degree.

 

I think it all depends on what the Associates Degree is in. I have an Associates in Social Science and it didn't qualify me for anything that I knew of that a HS diploma wouldn't. IF you have an Associates in APPLIED SCIENCE in a subject than it's a different story. Those are more vocationally oriented.

My sister has an Associates (AAS) degree in Nursing does quite well.

I believe the Associates Degree is more recognized in the US than in other places and is a relatively recent development. I think it's a good thing to have half-way milestones.

As for your friend I think the big 3 would definately be something to look into- ESP credit by examination. As for kids she would only have to find someone to watch her kids on exam days and do the studying anywhere she wants.

 

Having the option to complete a Associates degree has made returning to "school" easier for me. The reason I am pursing an AA before tackling a related BA degree programme is to provide a milestone that is achievable within a shorter timeframe. I carefully chose the concentration for the AA so it would dovetail with the BA which I really need if I intend to change careers after over a decade and a half in the IT world where I am currently employed. In theory, I could complete the AA this year, by December, but financial considerations may require a slightly longer completion date of mid-2006.

 

I think her reaction is one of indignance to a market that shouldn't be so driven on degrees. But, there it is. There is a positive cost-benefit for her to consider finishing a Bachelors if for no other reason it expands her job opportunites and provides the potential for increased income for the remainder of her career, which if she stays in the work force could be another 25 years. Over that period of time, personal income could be substantially higher with the bachelors than without (for most people). Issues such as marketability also lessen the likelihood of downtime and personal expense while jobless or employed at less than optimal circumstances. If we consider that with her Associates and her experience she were to earn $35K, I think it is reasonable and conservative that she could command $50K with a degree. Not to mention she would avail herself to a wider opportunity funnel. In a straight-line equation, that's a $300K differential over her remaining career which more than supports the business case especially if she leverages employer funds for her tuition.

 

I agree with LJinPA. An Associate degree in the right area can be be more valuable in earning a decent salary and a future than a Master's or even doctorate. An Associate degree in Nursing will make more money than a Master's degree in Counseling or Social Work for example. All can work in mental health settings.
Associate degrees in health care areas as PTA, OTAs, and in other career fields as Paralegal, Computers etc. can make you very employalbe. If you go to a 4 year school and leave past 2 or 3 years you have no credential to show for it. After 2 years at a community college you get a degree-showing employers you completed something. And a community college is a good place to begin education as it is usually cheaper and many schools have agreements with 4 year schools allowing an easier transfer.
I notice several degreeinfo members got their start in a communty college and many offer distance study courses also.
So I'd rate it an excellent credential. LJ in PA's Associate degree in Social Sciences might open a career as a mental health worker, Social Service worker, etc. -good entry level jobs to start off a career and provide an income while you pursue higher education.

 

Not to mention, using your example, the ROI would be nearly immediate once the Bachelor's is completed. At a school like Excelsior, transferring in 60 credits, the BA could be done for considerably less than $5000.

Cheers,
Mark

 

Don't forget Cindy Crawford...

Let me cite a favorite example:
Cindy Crawford, chemical engineering...
at Northwestern (dropout).

It sure isn't equal in the gene pool!

-Orson

 

Lineral Arts degree

Here in the Northwest, an associates degree in computing used to be valuable. But now that there is a glut of bachelors degree holders and less work than during the dotcom crazed days of yore, a bachelors is the bar to entry for the majority of "perm" jobs here. One can still make a living as a contractor, if one likes that lifestyle, but that lifestyle has seen it's glory days here as well. I spent a good twenty years resisting "the man's" idea that I get a degree in computing, or my previous field (electrical design). But eventually the handwriting on the wall became clear, and I started by studies. It has been quite an adventure, and I got a lot of ideas from this board on completing my studies quickly, so I did my first three years of work in 11 months. The good news is that if your friend has an associates degree, she may be able to simply do the second two years of her bachelors degree and be finished. Lots of schools offer liberal arts degrees, which could be valuable for someone in an artistic field, and the costs can be minimal.

Sean

 

IMHO:

I really don't think an AA is worth much. The only good I see it is it acts as a stepping stone (a first achievement if you will) to propell one towards a Bachelor's.

I think most of society see it this way as well. For instance, if someone were to tell you that they had earned their college degree, or that they had graduated from college, you'd assume that they meant that they have a Bachelor's (at least I would!) If they later said that they had an AA, your initial reaction may be to think that they had not finished their college degree, and that they were 1/2 done.

That's my feeling anyway. When I got my AA, I used it as motivation to earn my BA. An AA is a motivational piece in my eyes.