Ed.D. or Ph.D. in Education ?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Bill Parker, Jan 14, 2005.

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  1. Bill Parker

    Bill Parker New Member

    Ed.D. or Ph.D. in Education.

    I am trying to decide which program to choose. Is there one preferred or recommended over the other?

    Thank you.
     
  2. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    When we were writing Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning , we looked at this very issue. While it certainly mattered at some point, that has changed and continues to change. Why? Because the requirements in many cases are now exactly identical and it is just a matter of terminology. Many of the advertisements for positions listed both as being acceptable.

    I should mention, though, that this opinion only relates to those who want to work in schools of education. It is possible to get Ed.D.s in related areas (such as applied linguistics), but I think you would find acceptability at a much lower rate.



    Tom Nixon
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    If all (I mean all) other things are equal, opt for the Ph.D. But, in reality, you should treat them as being the same. Far more important factors are: the school, major area of study, curriculum, delivery method(s), residencies, costs, etc. One or more of those factors should tilt your decision way before it comes down to Ed.D. vs. Ph.D.
     
  4. BinkWile

    BinkWile New Member

    My director has an EdD, and she explained to me that the EdD was more applied than theoretical as the PhD. She went to VA PolyTech and said that the coursework for the two degrees were almost identical, but the difference was the dissertation, She was allowed to do an applied dissertation, while her PhD counterparts did a theoretical/statistical one.

    IMHO I would find both acceptable. Most job advertisements list that the applicat have a "doctorate" in the desired field. In education this could mean either a PhD or EdD.

    In another note, there are some lower GS employees at my work, whom all but outright refuse to call her "Dr." They are under the impression that an EdD is in some how lower than a PhD and that she is not realy deserving of the title. Ignorance at its best.

    Good Luck to you.
     
  5. marilynd

    marilynd New Member

    Bill:

    I would agree with Rich. The practical difference between the two depends on you, how you intend to use the degree, and the specifics of the degree program (those listed by Rich). I have looked at quite a few education doctoral programs. Some use the applied/theoretical distinction Binkwile mentioned, others do not.

    I will say that in my experience, there remains in the academic world a perception that Ed.D.s are somewhat less than (some of my colleagues would say "considerably below") a Ph.D. Much of this perception is due, I think, to older urban myths about the Ed.D. being a quick, down and dirty way for public school teachers to become principals. Similar to (and I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest here) academic perceptions of the D.Min. vs. a Th.D. or Ph.D. in the field of religion. While it is, as far as I can tell, not true (and probably in the main never was), the perception still exists--more at the university level, perhaps, than at the community college level.

    Perception, right or wrong, is part of the world in which we live. All things being equal, as Rich says, I would choose the Ph.D. I would not avoid a quality Ed.D. program, however, simply to avoid the "perception gap." In the last analysis, who you are and how well you do your work will be more important than which kind of doctorate you have.

    Hope this helps.

    marilynd
     
  6. stock

    stock New Member

    IMHO it might be the same when deciding between a DM/DBA or a PHd in Business. DM/DBA are more applied/practical, while Phd is more philosophical.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    These distinctions do not always exist. Many DBA programs mirror their Ph.D. brethren.
     
  8. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Having been in both a Ph.D. and an Ed.D. program, this has become a reseach interest of mine. I possess copies of virtually all of the research studies that have been done on this topic for the past two decades.

    While it is true that there are many who think that the Ed.D. is, somehow, a "lower" degree than the Ph.D. (and a few have gone so far as to publish ignorant statements to that effect in books), this is what the research has established:

    --The Ed.D. was established at Harvard in the 1920s to be an applied professional degree (like the M.D., J.D., MBA, etc.) to replace the Ph.D. in education.

    --The "replacement" never occurred, as nearly half of the schools of education continued to offer the Ph.D. Those who offered the Ed.D., conitnued to require the same course and dissertation requirements that they had don for Ph.D. students.

    --A study of over 600 colleges of education found that admission requirements, coursework requirements, statistics requirements and research/dissertation requirements were virtually identical for Ed.D. and Ph.D. programs

    --A different study of nearly 2,000 Ph.D. vs. Ed.D. dissertations found no difference in academic rigor according to degree.

    --There are a few programs that allow students to do more applied projects in place of the dissertation, but these are the vast minority.

    --For the most part, whether a school offers a Ph.D. or an Ed.D. is up to the school. Many offer the option of both the Ph.D. and the Ed.D. While the literature of such programs say that the Ed.D. is focus more upon educational practice, in nearly all cases, the Ed.D. and Ph.D. students take the same courses, have the same comprehensive exams and must do similar types of dissertations.

    --Plenty of Ph.D.s end up in K-12 school leadership or teaching positions and plenty of Ed.D.s end up at universities.

    Rich's and Tom's advise is would be good to follow. Find the best program for you. If the offer either a Ph.D. or Ed.D. option, you would probably want to choose the Ph.D. But do not pass up an Ed.D. program that would be perfect for you to go into a Ph.D. program that is not as good for you. I have been in higher education for 17 years and have NEVER heard of an instance where someone was not hired or promoted because of the name of the degree.

    Tony Pina
    Administrator, Northeastern Illinois University

    --incidentally, I nearly completed a Ph.D. program in Arizona. A wonderful job opportunity in California necessitated a move to that state. I was recruited into several CA doctoral programs (both Ph.D. and Ed.D.) and decided that an Ed.D. program at a small private university had the right program for me (they did not offer a Ph.D. in my field). I have not regretted that decision.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2005
  9. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Marilyn:
    There are no hornets in Carpathia.
    There is a pretty clear difference between the more praxis-oriented DMin and the research-oriented ThD or PhD in religion-related areas.
    I don't know any honest holder of the DMin who would not acknowledge the difference. In fact, our esteemed Doktorand Bill Grover periodically goes bosbefok over nonaccredited seminaries trying to pass off the DMin as adequate prep for the faculty supervising ostensible reasearch degrees.
    Is the DMin a genuine doctorate? Of course. It requires advanced coursework beyond and at a higher level than MDiv coursework. It requires a dissertation or thesis, which is somewhat shorter than a PhD/ThD dissertation.
    On the EdD thing: I hope it gains the full respect due it wherever this is lacking. The ol' nomenclature kook thinks the diversity of degree nomenclature is all to the good, provided real doctoral rigor is appropriately maintained. (In other words, a doc w/o a diss ain't a doc. Period.)
    And that's the buzz.
    Janko
     
  10. Bill Parker

    Bill Parker New Member

    Thank you to everyone for taking the time to provide your insight. I am very grateful. I have to think it through, and I really came to the right place. :) Thanks again!
     
  11. obecve

    obecve New Member

    At the time I decided to do a doctorate, I lived in an area where I had a choice between two universities. One had a Ph.D. and the other had an Ed.D.. The Ed.D. program was actually further away, but had several advantages (inlcuding the fact that I received a 2 year-part-time Dean's tuition waiver). Ultimately I chose the Ed.D. for several reasons. 1) The Ed.D. program had more flexible hours including evening and weekend courses. 2) The Ed.D. program had a particular professor that I wanted to study under and was hopeful to gain as a chair of my committee. 3) The Ed.D. program's library (at the time) had more flexibility with on-line research materials and at-home computer hook-ups. 4) The Ed.D. program allowed me a little more flexiblity in the design of my program. 5) The Ed.D. program was ranked in the top ten in "U.S. News" and the Ph.D. was not. Once I was in the program, I enhanced it by taking extra research and statistics courses as part of my electives.

    I do not regret for a single moment my choice. I actually celebrate htat I have an Ed.D., it often gives me the opportunity to visit with others about doctoral alternatives. In the past year I have been offered several university positions, but I continue to choose to work in state government for the time being.
     
  12. marilynd

    marilynd New Member

    Uncle (may I call you "Unc"):

    I am pretty well-acquainted with the distinction between the DMin and the ThD/PhD. The point I was trying to make is that there is still the preception in the academic world that there are "real" doctorates and, to coin a term, "degrees of convenience." EdDs so K-12 principals can call themselves "Dr." and DMins so ministers can have their congregations call them "Dr." It is not a view I have ever subscribed to, but it does still exist. The smaller the domain, the more petty the things that one frets over, I suppose.

    I have a friend who has a DMin and teaches public speaking and a basic intro to religion course at an RA institution. Everybody at the school calls him "Dr.," of course. The most recent SACS visiting team refused to accept his DMin in the credentials part of the self-study. Fortunately, he had other credentials that fit the bill.

    By the way, what does pass for a hornet in Carpathia? :D

    Regards,

    marilynd
     
  13. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I know a huge number of university professors with Ed.D.s that can call themselves "doctor", as well.

    Tony Pina
    Northeastern Illinois University
     
  14. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    All things being equal, probably the PhD has more mileage. However, I'd rather have an EdD from Columbia University than a whole lot of PhDs from other places.



    Tom Nixon
     
  15. simon

    simon New Member

    The versatility of the Ed.D. makes it an excellent choice in myriad contexts. For example, one can practice as an external organizational consultant, career and professional coach or use this degree for professional enhancement as a clinical social worker or professional counselor.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Very interesting Posts!

    As has already been said, the EdD for all practical purposes is the same as a PhD. Yes, there are people like those ridiculous GS workers who refused to call the woman 'Dr'. I suggest you show them the US Dept of Ed/National Science Foundation link (posted here a number of times) with the degrees equivalent to the PhD. May help educate them and change their mind, although I suspect that their attitude has more to do with jealousy. Saw something similar when a couple of folks in my office were maligning someone earning a DL PhD as getting a PhD.com and wondering if they would simply mail him an icon that he could click on and download his degree. Neither of the two folks laughing had doctorates and the fact was this dude was earning an accredited one.

    Frankly, I like the idea of the practically oriented EdD (kind of like a 60 credit hour DMin) where the focus of the dissertation could be applied research (ie research oriented but with practical application).

    North
     
  17. obecve

    obecve New Member

    I had a choice between a Ph.D. and an Ed.D.. I chose the Ed.D. because the program met my needs. I would not change it. I have nto had any problemswith credibility or with opportunity.
     
  18. simon

    simon New Member

    Originally posted by obecve [/i]
    I had a choice between a Ph.D. and an Ed.D.. I chose the Ed.D. because the program met my needs. I would not change it. I have nto had any problemswith credibility or with opportunity.


    Hi Michael,

    What was the specialization of your Ed.D?
     
  19. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I was almost through a Ph.D. program in Arizona when I received a job offer in California that was too good to turn down. I took a leave of absence from my Ph.D. program and later realized that I was not going to move back to Arizona. After two years of researching (and being accepted into) doctoral programs in California, I selected the program that best met my needs. It haapened to be at a unversity that offered the Ed.D., rather than Ph.D. My Ed.D. program was just as challenging as my Ph.D. program had been. In my 17 years working in higher education, I have known hundreds of college/university faculty with Ed.D. degrees. I have never seen any distinction made between them and their colleagues with Ph.D.s.

    There really is no good evidence (other than some people's uninformed opinions) pointing to any real difference between the Ph.D. in education and the Ed.D.

    Tony Piña
    Administrator, Northeastern Illinois University
     
  20. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    I don't know about the distinctions between the two degrees, I have neither. But I married into a family with a lot of academia (mother-in-law and father-in-law both tenured profs), and I've heard them talk about Ed.D.s in kind of an "Oh, he ONLY has an Ed.D.?" way. I guess at commencement profs notice when colleagues have light blue on their hoods rather than dark blue, and they turn their noses up a bit.

    However, as far as job prospects go, it would seem to be not too bad, because you do see those light blue hoods out there on commencement, don't you?
     

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