Hi guys, I have been reading your posts for a long time now and have finally gotten the nerve to ask a question myself. Forgive me if this is an unintellligent question but I would like to know if having a juris doctorate degree will allow a school teacher to be paid on the doctorate level assuming one has already achieved a masters in his/her certification level? I don't want to practice law or am I interested in holding the title "Dr.". I am however interested in advancing on the salary scale.
This is a question best posed to your employer; the situation could vary widely from school district to school district. It is common for holders of the JD to be accorded respect (and pay) comparable to holders of academic doctorates. While I do not agree that the JD, as comprised, is really a doctorate, I have no trouble with recognizing these folks--they hold what is normally considered the terminal degree in their field. (I have the same objections with all non-academic doctorates.) Again, you should ask your employer.
JD isn't a doctorate 'per se' Juris Doctorates don't refer to themselves as Doctors, even though the degree is called a Juris Doctorate. Several Years ago, the degree needed to take the bar was a Bachelors in Law, later renamed a Juris Doctorate. do a search here on Degreeinfo, this whole situation was spelled out very well. If you are looking for the prestige and extra income, you might look into NCU. They offer Doctorates in several areas, and they will apply up to 30 credits from aMasters towards the Doctorate. www.NCU.edu
that's a question i was wondering about as well. what can one do with a cal approved or detc juris doc? i've been looking around at this myself. i would never want to practice law but having a jd seems like a fun thing. i loved my business law courses. do these detc jd's amount to anything useful?
Re: JD isn't a doctorate 'per se' While this is true generally. it is fairly common practice for one set of JD holders (namely, college teachers who teach in areas outside law) to use the title "doctor", in order to put themselves on par with their faculty peers. Several of my colleagues with JD degrees teach on business, communications, language and other programs and are routinely reffered to as "doctor". Professors who teach in law schools or law departments almost never use the title "doctor". In every college/university or K-12 school in which I have worked, holders of JD degrees were paid at doctoral level. Tony Pina Northeastern Illinois University
Balderdash You know, I remember reading an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education that was about a person who got a Deanship or other higher position at a university who held a law degree. The faculty were up in arms that the person got the job as the person only held a J.D. and not a Ph.D. or Ed.D. 99.9% of this is total academic nonsense in my opinion, but I do not work at a university. Academics at universities spend their entire time it seems worrying about such balderdash. That is a good question, though... and as Rich says is best directed to your human resources people. If they email you with an answer, print it out and save it... because sometime down the line somebody will say (the battle cry of bureaucrats...) "who told you THAT??"
In a legal context, whether academic or in practice, NO lawyer is referred to, or refers to himself, as "Doctor". This is true regardless of other degrees the lawyer may hold, such as J.S.D., Ph.D., or even M.D. There was a time in the 1960s or so, when the use of the title "Doctor" was itself an ethical violation according not only to the ABA but also to various State Bar associations. Although these ethical opinions are no longer binding (apparently, anyway) the tradition of not using the title remains as strong as ever. Any lawyer who tried it would be laughed at by all the other lawyers concerned. I was astonished to learn that this rule does not apply to academia outside the law school, but such appears to be the case. It's not that lawyers are anti-title! According to my law license, I am an "attorney and counsellor at law". In some states, I would be a "barrister and solicitor". And there's always the euphoneous "Esquire". But none of these titles derives from a degree; they are all equally the property of a nondegreed lawyer as well.
Re: Balderdash I do work at a university and I agree that being upset that a dean has a JD, rather than a PhD or EdD is foolish. I know several deans at universities with masters or Ed.S. as their highest degree as they do just fine. Deans rarely are called upon to do the kind of academic research required by professors. Their jobs require different skills. Tony Pina Northeastern Illinois University
I do not see any problem with JDs being addressed as doctors. Like Dr. Pina said, I have been taught a course by JD who the school commonly addressed as doctor. Who am I to not address him as such when the school did? In government, JD is paid at par with PhDs, Ed.Ds, Psy.Ds etc. What is the different between O.Ds, PharmDs, MDs, etc. In my opinion, none. They are all first level doctorates. I do not see anyone fussing over ODs and PharmDs being called doctors. There is a PharmD in my office that is commonly addressed as doctor. oko
oko, Well, because physicians and surgeons are called "Doctor" in part because of their professional medical status. In the U.K., a new doctor receives a Bachelor of Medicine and a Bachelor of Surgery yet is inevitably referred to as "Doctor". Skill in the law has never carried this "courtesy" title.
At the moment, the ABA, the most authoritative professional accreditation association, says that and a J.D. is a Doctorate. (Doctor of Jurisprudence) Also, that is as good as to a Ph.D Maybe some citizens do not like that, but, that’s the declaration of the A.B.A. http://www.abanet.org/legaled/council/prior.html#1
It's common for trade associations to say things in their members' favor. That doesn't make them true. I just noticed the title of the thread. The term is juris doctor, not "juris doctorate."
Dr. Latin, That policy statement of the ABA's needs to be read VERY CAREFULLY in light of other positions the ABA takes as well. Until recently, the selfsame ABA stated that the use of the title "Doctor" by J.D. holders was an ethical violation as being misleading. The ABA defines the J.S.D. or S.J.D. as POST J.D. graduate degree in law. Are they REALLY saying that the J.S.D. is a HIGHER degree than the Ph.D.? I doubt it seriously. I think that the best way to read that statement is that no J.D. holder in academia should be discriminated against in terms of pay or tenure when serving in a law school. I am aware that they do a rather silly analysis in support of their statement, but the bottom line is the treatment J.D. holders receive. The J.D. is TREATED as the functional equivalent to a Ph.D. in the academy but the degrees are not in fact the same and I have never met a law professor who thought they were. Part of the reason for this weird situation is that dissertation law degrees are rarely earned by American professors. They are much more common in the law schools of other English speaking nations such as Canada, England, New Zealand, and Australia. Indeed, the J.D. is the basic teaching credential here but in THOSE countires, the entry teaching degree is the LL.M.
Let's look at this from "outside the box" shall we. First of all, YOU ARE ALL TAKING THIS WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. Plus, putting a ", J.D." beside your name doesn't make you right. For all we know, you don't even carry a J.D., or probably not any degree at all. Most people who have a J.D. degree do not visit websites about distance learning schools (Duh!). My real argument here is this: DOES IT REALLY MATTER TO YOU IF J.D. HOLDERS ARE TO BE CALLED "Dr."?? Apparently, for those who hold a J.D. degree (unlike all of you)--DO NOT CARE. They are proud of earning it and that's that. It's called humility. Only insecure and juvenile people make pointless arguments about stupid issues such as this (yes, you!). Do you guys even know what "Doctor" means? Look it up in the dictionary, it's another term for "Teacher" OMG, yes, like those who teach in colleges and universities. I can tell now that most, or probably all of you, have not graduated from them. So, if a medical doctor can be called "Teacher of Medicine", why can't a lawyer be the "Teacher of Law"? No answer. Live with it. Later! DD
