Question about teaching materials and curriculum

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by agingBetter, Dec 17, 2004.

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  1. agingBetter

    agingBetter New Member

    When I was in the Navy back in the early 90's, I took a course or two from Grantham College of Engineering. It was the best learning experience I had ever had. I really liked the teaching method and the fact that I could go at my own pace.

    Of course, there were no forums, but I could call a teacher if I had a question.

    Are there RA schools that teach like that? Where they have a step-by-step "auto-programmed" curriculum that I can go through on my own? I also liked the achievement test and then one proctored exam every so often.

    What I really have a problem with in distance learning is that I work better at my own pace.

    Something about my learning style means I get more confused when someone is trying to lead my studies.

    I went to Northwestern University as an undergraduate, and it was absolutely the worst experience for me. I didn't learn nearly as much as I could have because of the competitive nature of the culture...focus on "winning" the grade, etc.

    I also wonder if there are other people like me who really need to learn on their own and who have a sort of "handicap" in the classroom.


    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. agingBetter

    agingBetter New Member

    What I should have asked is:

    Are there distance learning RA schools that allow you to learn at your own pace with material that is designed to do the majority of the learning on your own and at your own speed (meaning you can finish as fast or as slowly as you want)?
     
  3. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

     
  4. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    Very interesting, Bill. I have often wondered about myself and the learning difficulties that I have had from time to time.

    I didn't get past the eigth grade due to me being a very troubled youth. I don't know how much this has to do with the problem I still seem to have or if it was the high powered drugs that I abused seemingly more than any of my fello addicts.

    Some things can be very frustrating to me. I have a very hard time learning from listening to someone else. Spelling can be very difficult as well. The amount of effort I have to put into spell check and dictionaries can really get under my skin at times. Some types of literature can make my eyes cross at times. I don't know why but my brain doesn't process these type of things well.

    People generally think that I am intelligent and I do know alot about various topics and issues. I seem to excel at most things that I do but, I am very strong willed determined for the most part.

    I often get the feeling that there is something missing due to these things though. I worry that someone will bust me and I will be found out to less than everyone thought due to the fact that I have a hard time remembering how to spell very simple words. I know, this is not a reasonable fear but, one that seems to simmer under the surface alot.

    Bill, with your experience do you think I could have a learning or am I just paranoid? Maybe I just learn different than others?

    One more interesting thing. I went back and looked at my report cards from 1-5th grades when I was a good student. I noticed all high and mid As on my spelling grades. Not sure what to make of this?
     
  5. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    A most interesting message from agingBetter. It addresses the central problem that we addressed in what became Edinburgh Business School in 1991. We discovered that so-called 'Distance Learning', DL, modes (e.g., from the Open University in the UK) were in fact and practice 'Distance Teaching' (DT) modes, mimicking closely a Campus Teaching (CT) mode against which their sponsors found for 'political' reasons it too difficult to challenge, or who had not realised there was a difference.

    Well, we started from scratch and only added anything to our DL mode which could be justified by research into learning. This resulted in a DL mode bereft of amost features of CT. They were just not necessary for learning at a distance (we became suspicious that they were not highly contributive to learning on a campus either).

    Our target segment of the adult learning market is the self-learner who does not seek, is uncomfortable with, and needs to get away from, the tyranny of imposed schedules, 'continuous assessment', cohort biased programmes and the need to keep in step with others. Because we are truly international in composition (over 100 countries represented at any one moment), where English is usually a second language not the first, we go easy on English grammar and spelling as long as we understand the message. This benefits English speakers too, whose affinity with their language is tenuous.

    We do not measure performance by inputs (where you did your early learning, what credentials you may have, or what your job is). We measure outputs ONLY: can you pass our tough but fair exams?

    This is DL as it should be. It is about learning not teaching. Each person knows how they best learn and the mode must have as many different aspects of learning for the lone, self-study learner to benefit from undertaking the course. Forget classrooms and lectures, they are not for everybody - for those who prefer this learning style, the world is over endowed with facilities and providers who willingly charge large sums to serve that market. It is under endowed with providers who are truly DL, and not DT providers masquerading as DL.
     
  6. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    Professor Kennedy,

    Thanks for your post. Can you tell me how these test are administered? What is the test like? I sit a written exam, choice or a combination of both?

    What type of learning is it? Mostly reading? Projects?

    PLease give details.
     
  7. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2004
  8. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    Thanks Bill, you a good guy.
     
  9. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    You may want to check out Brigahm Young University's indepdent study program. There are several hundred courses available, most of which allow you to take up to a year to complete, so you can work at your own pace.

    http://ce.byu.edu/is/site/index.cfm

    Tony Pina
    Coordinator of Learning Technologies
    Northeastern Illinois University
     
  10. agingBetter

    agingBetter New Member

    Professor Kennedy:

    Interesting analysis, obviously a conclusion born out of a great deal of teaching/education experience and study.

    I am indebted, in a way, to my first distance learning experiences. For a long time I thought I was never going to be able to learn the subjects I was most interested in: math and science. I thought I was one of those "verbal" people who never master those areas outside of the liberal arts. As it turned out, I make a pretty decent software developer. The traditional teaching methods in the sciences and math never broke through, so I had to learn it all on my own. I blamed myself, first, of course. Until I had a presentation of the material that suited me. If I had not had that chance encounter with Grantham, whose materials made a pretty good attempt at being "distance learning" as opposed to "distance teaching", I would not have the career I have today, because I would have continued believing I was a poor student. I have a difficult time paying attention to teachers when they spend too much time on the things I know well, to the detriment of my learning process...because when they hit the stuff I don't know well, it seems the other students speed through and I then get out of synch.

    So it isn't so much that it takes me longer, always...on the contrary: Most of the time I need a faster pace. In fact, I prefer to skim all of the material, including future chapters, so that I know the end result. Only then does my mind have the patience to slow down for the details in the earlier chapters. Also, my mind completely loses focus when the teacher focuses on things my mind has already mastered.


    Bill:

    I wonder if there are actually people diagnosed as learning disabled vs. not suited for traditional education methods? It must be a real challenge trying to help the "patient" figure out their ailment.


    Anthony Pina:

    Thank you for the link. BYU is a little expensive. In addition, it seems like upper level undergraduate courses are lacking in the distance learning arena. I also ran across some independent learning courses at the University of Wisconsin. For my math interest, I found http://www.matheverywhere.com/mei/courses/



    To all: I think I've figured out that the degrees are not important to me. I just want to "know". It is a driving force and reading books is no longer enough. I'm not sure how or when I arrived at this place, but I'm now trying to cope with my obsession. I think the pursuit of a credential/degree is more about marking my achievement for myself rather than building my resume. I think I've been so caught up in the culture of the credential that I forgot why I'm so obsessed in the first place!

    At any rate, I'm dealing with trying to dissipate the anger I feel at finding out my true interests and talents so late in life. It is no one's fault, really. People really did mean well when they said "study harder!"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2004
  11. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    There certainly are people (about 5% of the school age population, and this condition does not amazingly disappear upon leaving HS when such folks desire to enter college) who are *educationally (so in public secondary schools an individual learning plan is written for them with specialists and parental participation with individual objectives and styles of teaching specified for them) , *legally (ie, with legal rights attending their educational placement and program, there are even lawyers specializing in this) and *medically (ie, this diagnosis oft requires MD certification of it) diagnosed as "Specifically Learning Disabled."

    Universities , as the University of Oregon, have entire credential programs qualifying one to identify and teach SLD students and states accordingly issue teaching certificates in special ed to those who complete such programs. These special ed programs are beyond the normal 5 year credentialling course of studies for teacher certification in common content areas. Instruction of these handicapped learners are in some colleges, as Chemeketa , assisted by depts which tutor identified learners with this disability.

    As said, with such students a depressed general intelligence is excluded from being the cause of the learning difficulty, hence the disability is termed "specific" meaning the disability affects only limited areas as reading or arithmetic. However often one who finds some areas (s) or style (s) of instruction to be very difficult becomes discouraged and that discouragement affects the whole school experience. It seems likely that many who suffer to different degrees with learning impairments of one sort or another never have had this assessed.

    In fact, probably when I was in secondary school I would have been so identified had there been such programs in San Diego in the 1950s. You would not believe the struggle I had in my first year of college.

    The possible application of this is that some DL programs which do not afford the student the opportunity of easy, regular access to the instructor ,or at least to a trained mentor who can guide and encourage, may not be suitable for many. I know this is not a new observation , but if what I'm saying about SLD is correct, it may make that datum more emphatic.

    Some DL programs IMO should concern themselves more with HOW the students learn, not just with WHAT the student should learn.
     
  12. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Hi Skidadl

    Exam regimes vary but ours are regarded by peer Senior faculty at Business Schools as being tougher than most. I like to regard ours as being a fairer test of the candidate's worthyness of an attestation of their fitness in the subjects tested. And it is that objective - the attestation of fitness - that the exam regime should be testing, not whether it is popular with those being tested or suited to every subject (it would not suit computer or IT project testing, for instance), or every psychological condition of some of the candidates.

    Our exams are 3 hour closed book written exams, no sight or hint of the questions, no choice of questions, all graded by the same faculty (to minimise variations), strictly invigilated (proctored) by independent persons, not faculty (they may not even enter in or loiter near, the exam rooms) and Externally Examined by senior faculty from other Business Schools (the British system).

    Learning is by reading specially written Text books (published by Pearson Education) for distance learning, containing exercises, questions and cases, and supported by online web sites that help learners to pass their examinations (the goal of most students), with feedback on screen from the Profiler tool, past exams and solutions, cases, exercises and essays, plus, should a student wish it (most don't) web contact with faculty (not adjuncts).

    There is no schedule of contact, synchronous or otherwise, or any requirement to read material not in the Textbooks or online. No essays or continuous assessments, projects or contact - materials written off campus and out of sight are of doubtful provenance - and no cohorts or other replications of the campus.. There is a student run website (the Watercooler) independent of the School.

    We started on the DL road in the early 1980s. I have been active in it fulltime since 1989. I retire in March 2005. We have had in depth and long contact with DT (a few, too few!) in DL and of course CT in most Business Schools in the UK and several abroad in Australia and North America. Hence, I am in degreeinfo as an enthusiast, but one who know the difference between DL and DT.
    Otherwise, I am quite humble about the world of learning represented on this Board and the people who contribute to it, including some of the rogues...
     

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