Ecole Robert Sorbone in France

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Dr Alex Higgins, Nov 23, 2004.

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  1. Dr Alex Higgins

    Dr Alex Higgins New Member

    Can anyone please inform me if the above school is legit a University Professor informs me its run from a small house in France which acts as a mail forwarding service . thanks Dr Alex :eek:
     

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  2. ham

    ham member

    http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13336

    everything is there.
    1 they are not a recognized or else chartered institution in the french authorities' opinion.
    2 at most they operate under some lenient "registration" at a local level, say pedicurist or stenotypist or karate school.
    3 they maintain several outfits by the same name (hence the multiple "nationality": french, comorian...american...swiss ).
    4 they have lied about being a chartered outfit.
     
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    They basically use a loophole in the French system. They are not a French University but an African institution conducting business in France, the degrees are not recognized in France but they use the French law to grant the degrees. The scam seems to be related to a credential evaluator in the US that also owns the school in question, the idea is to fool the US authorities so prospect immigrants can use SRD degrees to support H1-B and immigrant visa applications. They will probably be shut down as soon as the INS finds out about them, by then RDS would probably expects to cash enough money before dissapearing in order to avoid legal action.
     
  4. ham

    ham member

    There is NO ( i repeat no ) loophole.

    VAE/PLAR procedures (according to my calls etc to french authorities & the law there ) need to be implemented at a state university.
    That's not different from Italy or elsewhere: a commission ( nationwide one in some cases needing special licensure ) is appointed to carry out what is some sort of credit transfer/PLAR procedure.
    Which you may get at almost ANY chartered university.

    Then there is the lower, clerical version of VAE/PLAR dealing (i think) with what professional low end schools do, ex language, karate, stenotyping schools.

    Hence there is no loophole at all.
    They just come out of nowhere & assume a pack of different ( at time conflicting ) things.
    I just think they are trying ( very poorly ) to smuggle their usual "exotic degree" under the more respectable cover of a french law, hoping americans are too dumb to read french and/or to write to french authorities themselves.
    I can claim to be the long lost son of the emperor of Germany...

    It appears they issue degrees based on a stack of credentials: Anjouan, Switzerland, USA, France...
    Every one based on a misguided&self serving "interpretation" of local laws.

    In fact, no shill of theirs has sofar answered THIS very limited question: what's the nationality of the outfit?
    They want to maintain a blurred outlook about it because it is going to be up to the buyer, which "accreditation" to use...french, african, american, swiss...

    What spots them as a degree mill BIG TIME is they lied (repeatedly) about their french "accreditation".

    Would it be worth getting a PLAR degree ( note: NO CHARTERED UNIVERSITY WHATSOEVER EVER WOULD AWARD ANY DEGREE ENTIRELY UPON PLAR) from a french "school" in the capacity of a pedicure one?
     
  5. Dr Alex Higgins

    Dr Alex Higgins New Member

    THANKS

    HI HAM AND EVALVE .MANY THANKS FOR INFO I WILL STEER WELL CLEAR OF MUDDY WATER !ALEX
     
  6. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Does this mean anything?

    Registered French Institution of Higher Education
    #0862003720

    Publication Journal Officiel de la République Française
    #20040039-1669
    Aurhorized to bestow degrees L731-14

    I am not defending them but then if they are truly registered then whats wrong with them? Maybe this is not correct then?
     
  7. ham

    ham member

    http://www.education.gouv.fr/sup/univ.htm

    here are listed ALL RECOGNIZED/CHARTERED/AUTHORIZED french university under any denomination; they list even Réunion of french polynesia...but no mention of "prestigious" Ecole/université Robert de Sorbon...
    1+1=...?


    Registered French Institution of Higher Education
    #0862003720

    Publication Journal Officiel de la République Française
    #20040039-1669
    Aurhorized to bestow degrees L731-14


    no city hall/chamber of commerce record of incorporation or articles (banding terms ) of association mean authorization to bestow degrees in the capacity of a university...not in France; not in the USA; not in the Seychelles..
    1+1=...?

    I am not defending them but then if they are truly registered then whats wrong with them? Maybe this is not correct then?

    Why don't you do your due diligence work before such a claim?

    1 If you wouldn't care, why would you bother pointing out they claim to be registered?
    Which is a misrepresentation, by the way.
    1 if you cared, then you shouldn't trust at face value some skanky website of unknown origin but rely on official advice from authorities.
     
  8. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Hi Ham:

    Don't jump on me here. I was just asking what it means.. My second statement or question is wether they were making a false or deceptive claim similar to St. Regis for example..

    Okay
     
  9. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Morley:

    The registration claim is dubious at best. I can think of another less-than-wonderful school (ranging from Liberia to the South Seas to suburban Connecticut) which uses a French claim in its literature, too.

    This outfit is of uncertain location (ranging from Maine to Graubuenden to the Comoros and/or just Anjouan to Florida to France to...) and possesses nothing comparable to foreign "GAAP" status anywhere.

    It uses the same old life experience racket, just tricked out with an unsubstantiated claim to employ the French VAE procedure--a procedure open only to listed French universities (which this isn't) and subject to very similar guidelines to those used by the US "big 3" (which this outfit may or may not follow).

    It uses a credential evaluator in some sort of intimate relationship to the university itself. The same internet ISP numbers pop up on both ends of the seesaw.

    It uses shill(s) posting abusively on this website under various names.

    It uses a name designed to create confusion with that of a real university (remember Cormell, Stamford, Weston Reserve, etc.?).

    In other words, its claims (such as what you spotted) and its activities are not those of a wonderful school.

    Regards,
    Janko
     
  10. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Hi Janko:

    Thanks for the clarification, but what is more important? Is it following the VAE procedures or is it registration in France?

    My concern is there so much debate when it seem the main issue is wether they are properly registered to grant French degrees. They could be registered but not following the rules properly. Isn't that one possibility with any school?

    St. Regis was a good example, they in some ways had Liberian registration through some back door, but because they were not really into education, they did not convince anyone that they deserved...
     
  11. ham

    ham member

    What is this French "VAE" process?

    Excuse me, but i think i gave an answer already.
    Same as the french ministry site confirms, VAE is PLAR no holds barred.
    They say there it's for about anybody who may have at one point or another extensively dealt with a job, even if unpaid, of charitable or nonprofit nature.

    La loi de modernisation sociale ( Journal Officiel du 18 janvier 2002) élargit les possibilités de validation diplômante des acquis de l'expérience dans l'enseignement supérieur. L'université peut reconnaître et valider les compétences acquises dans la vie professionnelle pour faciliter l'accès aux diplômes et titres de l'enseignement supérieur.

    " the law medernisation sociale gives you more chances to get credit for your prior learning experience when seeking university diplomas. Universities [the public state one authorized to do so] may recognize & accredit your past acquired competences in order to ease the transition to university diplomas. "


    How does "VAE" differ, if it does, from long established prior-learning assessments in the United States, such as the exams and portfolios used by Thomas Edison State?

    i have no precise idea.
    However
    They explicitly mention public state universities will take care of the VAE procedure.
    Hence it look more like a credit transfer or equipollence procedure than else, anyways here's the french ministry of labour:
    http://www.travail.gouv.fr/dossiers/vae/1.html

    here an extensive list of questions&answers
    http://www.travail.gouv.fr/dossiers/vae/questions.html

    Basically, VAE is just PLAR with many disclaimers as for what kind of degree you may get; anyways a committee shall deal with it, whose decision is final.

    Care to know who may tell you how to get started & whether or not the degree you seek is open to VAE ( not all are ):

    OU S'ADRESSER POUR CONNAITRE L'EXISTENCE ET LES MODALITES DE VAE POUR UN DIPLOME PRECIS ?
    # S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de l'Education Nationale : Pour le cas du CAP, BEP, Bac Pro, BTS, il faut s'adresser au Rectorat qui dispose d'un service appelé " DAVA " (Direction Académique pour la Validation des Acquis)

    # S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de l'enseignement supérieur, il faut s'adresser à l'Université qui le délivre (Service Formation Continue de l'Université) ou à l'établissement d'enseignement supérieur en cause (ex : service d'orientation du CNAM (Conservatoire National des Arts et Métiers, s'il s'agit d'un diplôme du CNAM).

    # S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de professions sociales ou paramédicales, s'adresser à la DRASS (Direction Régionale des Affaires Sanitaires et Sociales).

    # S'il s'agit d'un diplôme délivré par les Ministères chargés de la Jeunesse et des Sports, s'adresser à la DRJS (Direction Régionale de la Jeunesse et des Sports)

    # S'il s'agit d'un diplôme délivré par le Ministère de l'Agriculture, s'adresser à la DRAF(Direction Régionale de l'Agriculture et de la Forêt) ou dans les établissements de l'enseignement supérieur agricole.

    # S'il s'agit d'un titre du Ministère chargé de l'Emploi préparé dans les centres de l'AFPA et les centres agréés correspondants, il faut s'adresser à la DRTEFP, à la DDTEFP ou à la DR AFPA.

    # S'il s'agit d'un CQP de Branche porté par une Commission paritaire nationale de l'emploi, il faut s'adresser au Secrétariat national de la CPNE qui représente les partenaires sociaux (employeurs et salariés) ou à l'OPCA de Branche (Organisme paritaire collecteur agréé)

    # S'il s'agit de titres ou d'autres types de certifications portés par des organismes privés ou publics (chambres consulaires), il faut s'adresser à l'organisme de formation qui délivre le titre ou la certification


    what VAE is NOT...

    L'équivalence de titres ou de diplômes.
    Chaque autorité délivrant des titres ou diplômes décide des équivalences entre tel ou tel de ses propres diplômes et ceux d'autres autorités. Il convient de s'adresser dans ce cas au Service des Equivalences de l'autorité certificatrice.
    Par ex : Rectorat pour les diplômes du Ministère de l'Education Nationale ou pour l'enseignement supérieur, Service des Equivalences de l'Université qui délivre le diplôme.


    Une conversion " automatique " de l'expérience en diplôme.
    La VAE suppose de suivre une procédure pour faire évaluer et reconnaître l'expérience acquise.
    L'évaluation de l'expérience consiste à rassembler différents modes de preuves destinées à démontrer l'expérience acquise et son lien direct avec le contenu du titre ou diplôme visé.
    Chaque autorité délivrant des titres ou diplômes définit les conditions de recevabilité de la demande de validation et la procédure à suivre pour accéder à ses certifications.


    1 not a degree equipollence/credit transfer option between degrees issued from different sources.
    2 not granted & automatic degree on the ground of your past experience. There are many steps to follow to prove you're a suitable candidate and first you have to be accepted into the procedure.

    Why is there so much talk about "VAE" being an innovation that the US should accept? What's innovative about it?

    It is just PLAR according to the french authorities.
    And it is a bait for a few conmen to try some degree mill hunting season like they did with the "UK education act" earlier, then with Liberia, Pakistan, Malaysia ( Marlborough was playing this card ages ago, however ).
    In the USA, Canada, etc there are PLAR provisions as well.


    Finally, how can all of this stuff be independently verified by an English speaker who doesn't understand French?

    I have no idea.
    French ministries only answer general points like whether VAE exists and/or whether outfit X is ok.
    The implementation is left to french state universities.
    Hence you should contact them.


    these are the universties authorized to implement VAE procedures:
    http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdir/vae/visit-annu/visit-affich-toutes-univ.asp

    There is no other outfit authorized to do so ( because as they say, VAE is not just a credit transfer or equipollence procedure ).
     
  12. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Interestingly I think Trinity International makes the same claim of been registered in France.. Based on their own setup it does not look like Ministry of Education supervised. Probably the same Karate school concept..

    They are now mentioning VAE on their site too..

    Very interesting but I definitely do not believe them
     
  13. Dr Alex Higgins

    Dr Alex Higgins New Member

    VAE France

    Thanks as ever Ham. However, unlike Some Institutions Universities whose credibility has been defined, you are quite wrong to say in France that only such Universities can impliment the VAE Programme. All Universities and Colleges and Institutions that are Registered at local or Nation Level and follow the strict rules as laid down by the Goverment in Education can grant Credits under the VAE Programme. Where that other school of Karate or whatever was to test the Credibility or should I stretch it to say that you could have a vae at a certain price and that it is the same a a fully fledged French degree which takes 4/5/6 years of study. All serious persons would consider this non sense, and it is. However properly Registered Schools at National or local level who offer legitimate courses and proper syllabuses can avail if Registered in France can also avail of VAE or credit for experience relating to the Degree award but unless you have 20 years at Executive Level these Credits alone can be sufficent to gain your Degree. VAE form only part of an assessment your Past Academic vocational Professional training Example Accountant or Teacher with 20 years experience but no degree. Their years spent do count for VAE but it is only a part of the Whole. So do not throw out the Baby with the bathwater. Perfectly Good Distance Learning French Registered, wheather they are USA Regionally Accredited or not should not be tarred with the same brush as others who make exagerated claims and distort the facts for the sake of profit. Dr Alex
     
  14. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Dr Higgins, what is your first language?
     

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