UOP DBA, Walden, Capella or Northcentral's PhD

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Messagewriter, Nov 9, 2004.

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  1. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    Hello. I'm new and appreciate this group.

    My degree purpose is self enrichment but also to adjunct teach at the graduate level. My last degree was an MS from New York University in real estate finance and I'd like to do doctoral work in finance, with online being the only rational option. I'm classically torn between a "better school" vs. "better program curriculum" match. Because of academic appeal, I prefer the Ph.D., but am considering the UOP DBA vs Capalla's Ph.D. (org & mgmt), Walden's (mgmt & decision) and Northcentral's (bus admin). I value school reputation, program match and cost in that order. A good program match is one with a finance specialization of some kind. In terms of adjuct appointment, I have 20 years experiance, so I'm not convinced that any particular degree will matter, but finance is considerd "terminal" for teaching real estate.

    Walden seems excessively long and very expensive, but a good program match and reputation it seems.
    Capella is shorter and cheaper, but a fair program match with a good reputation it seems.
    Northcentral is short, cheap and an excellent program match. I have no clue about their reputation.
    UofP is cheap, short but a fair program match (unsure of dba). They seem to have a good reputation.

    Basically, I don't know about school reputation basis over all appeal in the job and academic (adjuct) regional school market. I base my idea of reputation more from reading their corporate financial statements for the holding companies and find Northcentral nontransparanct in this regard. I dont' know how else to mitigate the risk of being stiffed midstream of one of these "companies" fail except to look at their financials.

    Sorry for the long post. Any advice on how to rank these on quality/reputation?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    Mesagewriter - I'd give Nova Southeastern a good look (www.sbe.nova.edu). They've been around longer than most of the competitors. They have a stronger track record in placing graduates than a number of your other choices. Also, they have a curriculum option in finance that will provide you more specific coursework than a number of your other choices.

    Yes, they require some weekend class meetings - but these are really a plus, IMHO.

    Regards - Andy

     
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    As for reputation, I would put them in these order but this a personal choise. The reputation is based on full time faculty holding academic credentials from these institutions and on my general perception about their degree.

    1. Walden
    2. Capella
    3. University of Phoenix
    4. NorthCentral

    The reason why I put Northcentral at the end is because is a very new school and not many people know it. There have been several threads about their lack of quality but they seem to be working on improving it. University of Phoenix is well known but not as a good school, may academics have a very low image of this school so I don't think it can be a good thing to put in your resume if you are looking for a teaching job. Capella seems to be a decent school with some alumni working as full time faculty and Walden is well known and respected with many full time graduates working in academia and industry.

    It is also important to examine the course work, my impression is that Walden and Capella have a much more stronger curriculum than the other two schools but some people are also looking for low profile courses since they don't have too much time for the program.
     
  4. adireynolds

    adireynolds New Member

    Of the four schools you mention, Walden has been around the longest, so I would say that their 'reputation', at least as measured in numbers of graduates holding adjunct positions, would be strongest in this regard. However, IIRC, others here on this board have done searches and found adjuncts teaching with degrees from all of these institutions. So, I think you'd be better off considering not only program (specialization) fit, but also the structure of learning.

    I initially started at both Argosy and Walden, but found myself uncomfortable with the structure of their programs. I'm now at Capella, and it's a perfect fit for my learning style and what I'm trying to accomplish. So, I think this is an area that one must consider, particularly given the more independent nature of online learning; it requires more self-discipline than a B&M program, so you must make sure the program you choose is a good fit.

    Of course I'm biased toward Capella, being a learner there myself, but based on your post, if the program structure is comfortable, it sounds like NCU has a better program match for what you want to study. I don't know if you've looked at Argosy U or Nova Southeastern, and I'm not sure if they have a specialization in Finance, but they might also be worth checking out.

    Good luck to you!

    Cheers,
    Adrienne
     
  5. adireynolds

    adireynolds New Member

    Re: Re: UOP DBA, Walden, Capella or Northcentral's PhD

    I was hoping you'd chime in re Nova, Andy! I finished writing my post, hit submit, and boom, your post showed up. I had an inkling that finance was a specialization option, but was loathe to check Nova's page, since I'm on dial-up these days (temporarily), and opening two IE windows at once does not a happy computer make. :D

    Cheers,
    Adrienne
     
  6. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    Thanks for the input.

    I'll revisit Nova. Originally, I felt that it was too much a resident program, but I'll take a closer look.


    The quality rank on my candidates was great. Thanks. I like Walden and talked to them today. I'm surprised over the magnitude of the program. It seemed to be a 4-4.5 year effort and nearly double the cost. I figured about $75,000 vs. about half that for the others. The time is a bigger issue than the money, but I'm still looking at it. Yes, Northcentral is new, so that's a concern. The statement obout low profile courses is relevant. I'm working on a professional valuation designation called MAI, which is a factor over the next couple years.

    Realistically, can any of these programs be completed in 3 years. UOP says 3 years in a lock-step program. Capella says 3-3.5, with transfers. It's hard for me to judge the time for these courses. That is, can one do two per term and only spend about 15 hours all in per week?
     
  7. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    Andy: Re: UOP DBA, Walden, Capella or Northcentral's PhD

    Andy,

    I checked out Nova again. My GRE and GPA exceeds their minimuns, so I guess that's not a problem. That they have these admissions standards certainly does say something about the quality from my perspective. Clearly Nova is a more Sticks and Bricks institution.

    Anyway, they do have a great curriculum. With the weekend courses, does the time end up being more do you think than an entirely online delivery? I'm in Tampa, Florida where Nova offers the DBA in their satalite office here.

    As a more traditional product, I wonder how brutal the comps were and whether you could encapsulate a couple courses within 15 hours per week on average all in (including weekend meetings)? It seems clear that this program would be more difficult, but you seem convinced that it's worth the extra effort?

    Thanks for you advice.

    John
     
  8. adireynolds

    adireynolds New Member

    completion time

    Depending on transfers, both Walden and Capella could be done in 3 years. However, not at only 15 hrs. a week. Figure that amount for each class. So, if you do two a term, figure, on average, 25-30 hours a week, more when cramming to finish the research papers!

    I take two classes a quarter at Capella, as I'm striving for as close to a 3 year finish as I can get (and a lot of that will depend on how smoothly my dissertation process goes), and I've been averaging about that amount of time put in weekly.
     
  9. BinkWile

    BinkWile New Member

    Let me chime in.

    I found myself in your position a couple of years ago. I am an MPA, so I wanted Walden, as they have a PhD in Public Administration and Policy. But they didn't transfer my courses from OU very well (they're 2 SH a course via 3) and thus, too much course work was required fror my liking.

    I then tried Capella's PhD in Organization Management, which I didn't really like (not that its a bad program) because of the quarter hour system and the time and cost involved, plus I didn't really care for the courses, so I did only 2 quarters.

    I then looked at Touro University and NCU and went with the latter. I really like NCU's program and it has been pretty good. The administration is more responsive than Capella's was and takes care of any of my problems ASAP. NCU is RA and even though it is new, I get a good vibe from them and think the schools has a big future-they just bought 45 acres of land in Prescott AZ for a compus, they must be planning something.

    I think NCU is well structured academically, but could use some desperate work on their website and image. Their website is atrocious, and their seal looks very corporate. This has been discussed by students in the university and it seems that NCU is planning to remodel the website and school image in the new year.

    In any case to answer your query, I would recommend all the schools you have chosen (except UoP) and would also add in Touro, Argosy, and Nova, as others already have. Get as much information from the schools as possible, get as many brochures and packages as they offer, and contact current students and alumni and make a decision that best fits you.

    Good luck in your decision.
     
  10. PhD2B

    PhD2B Dazed and Confused

  11. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member


    I suspect current NCU students would all agree that the student pass word protected website is excellent.
     
  12. mathguy

    mathguy New Member

    Considerations

    Hi!

    You are wise to consider your options.

    I completed the PhD program at Capella in IT Management in 2 years 2 months. The program has evolved since my time in it. Don't forget to include the costs and timely scheduling of the residencies in your considerations.
     
  13. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    Thanks for the advice

    Thanks to you all.

    Having stumbled onto this forem, I've learned a great deal in a very short time. The consensus on UofP seems to be that it's reputation is likely suffering the strains impossed by massive volume; who knows. Because the community college/18 hour issue has become more relevant and based on your advice, I'm going to include NCU, Nova and Walden on the short list of schools with finance concentrations. Given my academic preference, I may go the Ph.D route, rather than Nova's DBA, but Nova is a good "hybrid" DL/B&M school, that is local as I'm in Tampa, Florida. Because I'm committed to getting this MAI designation for appraisal in the next few years, HCU may rise to the top of the list due to practical considerations. The novelty of the program is the only apparent risk. The actual curriculum is ideal for my intended purpose.

    I'm new to this forem and to this tech platform, but I'd appreciate the opportunity to speak to anyone who is currently enrolled in these programs and in particular, the finance track perhaps at NCU

    Thanks,

    John
     
  14. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    John,

    try a search on Northcentral University or NCU on the forum. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. I am in the PhD-Business-MIS concentration so I'm not sure if I can directly help with the finance questions but you can contact NCU and they may be able to provide you with a contact in the financial concentration.

    Pros: NCU recently was approved and added education fields to their offerings. Student interface is better and well organized. You pay by the class rather than a fixed rate by quarter or semester. They have a rolling semester. Continual learner feedback and surveys (mandatory pre and post course) on the courses/school to management. 100% online.

    Cons: Fairly new school, website sucks. No additional program accreditation (AACSB, APA, etc...) at this time.

    Best wishes,

    Kevin
     
  15. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    Kevin's comments

    Thanks.

    As far as I can tell, the accredidation is common to all programs, as they all appear to be RA. Thanks for your other comments. I read up on the program at the Department of Education that NCU has recently joined. One difficulty with NCU is matching the educational cycle with finanancial aid disbursments, so I wonder if NCU will be able to keep letting folks move through the courses at a self-directed pace, or whether they will have to bend the program around federal regs to standardize it?

    The pay as you go is very good. $3,000 to $4,000 per quarter if taking a single class due to other life obligations could get old very quickly.

    One of the main things that I'm going to press NCU about during my evaluation is the lack of transparency into the financial condition of the company. One can easily find the financial statements of the holding companies that own Capalla, Walden, and UofP, for example. That NCU is new as a brand is of little concern to me when compared to lack of understanding about their finances and strategic direction as a business enterprise. At my age (43), I don't have time for any delays.

    Also relevant to financial aid, I wonder if they will be able to continue offering a 100% online product, or whether a residency component will be added?

    Sorry for the long windedness.

    John
     
  16. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    John,

    regarding financial aid (title IV?) NCU instituted a 16 week semester for folks utilizing financial aid. You will probably want to ask them about the particulars as I am not familiar with the financial aid aspects. I think you still have some flexibility in completing your classes as your abilities, time, etc... allow up to the full 16 weeks but the course won't be posted for credit until the appropriate time passes regardless of when you completed all the course requirements.

    I believe the federal program will determine if 100% DL schools will continue to be acceptable for aid purposes, etc...

    Distance learning is commonplace within the government and used internally for recurring and mandatory training so I believe DL only schools will reach common acceptance.

    Keep us posted on the financial information. I read it at one time but can't remember where. It may be available from the accreditor.


    Best wishes,
     
  17. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    Re: Andy: Re: UOP DBA, Walden, Capella or Northcentral's PhD

    Here are some answers to your questions. Regards - Andy



    Yes, Nova seems to fit somewhere betweeen traditional B&M and totally on-line. They do require the GRE/GMAT while the for-profits don't. They do have a full-time faculty and a fantastic library. There is a real campus and NSU is a multi-faceted school - including traditional programs (undergrad, medicine, law, etc.) and non-traditional programs. NSU is quite large - and likely to remain around for the long haul.

    You'll spend more time on-ground - I figured about 75 days in my 4.5 years of study. But there are real pluses to meeting with faculty and peers face to face. I found it very motivational. Some folks can learn alone, I prefer a classroom setting.

    As for curriculum - I think if you have a real interest in Finance, you'll find that they have substantial coursework in your discipline. I'm not sure about all of the others you're looking at, but at least some of these programs don't really have concentrations. NSU does hire some pretty good faculty - including their full-timers and some very good adjuncts.

    I'm not totally sure about the totally on-line operations, but from my own experience you do need to be prepared to work. I took 4.5 years to complete. The average time to finish the program is 60 months.

    You have to evaluate the relative merits - NSU has been around a while and they do have a fair number of grads in academic work. You may be able to finish sooner at some other places - but what's your goal? For me, the voyage was worth a lot. I really enjoyed my program.

    Also, note that at NSU, you pay by the credit hour, not by the term. As a result, you can work at whatever pace you feel comfortable with - and not face a cost issue from paying a "per term" price.

    The comps were a challenge - but quite doable in my estimation. Yes, I had to study to prepare for a couple of months ahead - but they weren't impossible. As for the coursework, you do have to prepare for the wekends - but your time estimation is pretty reasonable.

    I found that the real determinant of whether you finished or not was your own motivation.

    The NSU program was very worthwhile to me. With my NSU degree I've been able to move into an academic position. Although NSU isn't Harvard, it has certainly had better recognition than the totally on-line programs you've mentioned as alternatives. Since graduating I've compared notes with folks that have come out of the other programs that you mentioned. I believe that NSU compares very favorably.

     
  18. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: UOP DBA, Walden, Capella or Northcentral's PhD



    I think that there is no "free-lunch". If you intention is teaching at the University level, you will find that "fast-track" doctorates will give you an accredited doctorate but with little to sell when it comes to jobs interviews for teaching positions. In my experience, if you don't have a good publication record your doctorate will be almost useless for academic positions. In order to build a good publication record, you need to spend the time and the 2 -3 year part time goal that you have with 15 hours a week might not be enough to build good research skills.

    NCU, Capella and similar schools sell the idea to get a fast track doctorate that might be a good option for people already in academia that only requires a doctorate for promotion or job security. However, you will need to analyze your options because "faster" is not always better since you might end with a credential that cannot be sold later after graduation.
     
  19. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    Response to comments

    Thanks so much for all the advice.

    I'm looking hard now. For financial reasons, I voluntarily bailed last year on a a Ph.D. program in economics after three semesters. It was a carnagie 1 level university in the south. Andy and RFValue's comments are very well taken. In my former B & M program, the faculty always said coursework really only constituted 50% of the "program". Scholorship including presentations, publication, conferences, teaching, research, etc. easily made up the rest. Without scholorship (especially at least a couple peer reviewed pubs under one's belt), getting hired on a tenure track would not necessarily happen. While I do not view the DL degree with the same utility as a B & M degree for practical reasons, I take the prior poster's comments to heart.

    Here is my deal and I suspect others may be in the same boat. I'm torn between a more "academic" product like Nova vs. a fast-tract line Norhtcentral University. Holding one's aspiration for academia in any form constant, I beleive the job market appeal regarding a doctor education is inversly proportional to one's age and professional acumen. That is, the less experienced job applicant would logically need to rely more on the academic credential. For me at graduation from either program, I'd have 20+ years of professional managerial experience in the real estate development and valuation industry, an MAI and CCIM designation, and the degrees listed below. Thus, my degree purpose becomes more weighted towards the "credentialization" role just to "check a box". But, I have PhD friends who could facilitate my publication of some stuff, so I guess I could pick up a co-authored gig during any program, given the effort. Frankly, I don't think that a DL degree is going to get anyone into a full time B & M gig at a research university, but perhaps a good start would be a research institute on a campus, where adjunct teaching outside the institute could provide an inroad for future empolyment if one get's lucky. Most large universities have institutes and centers. I worked full time at one at Clemson and was already being offered adjunct work because of my experiance, and one departmetn offered me an assistant professorship after I graduated from the Ph.D. program I was in. Anyway, my point is that I am able to weight what I already possess heavily, thus I may go the "fast track" route.

    Your comments and willingness to read this long speach are appreciated.

    John
     
  20. intro2life

    intro2life New Member

    My 2 cents

    If deciding between the schools you've mentioned, I would consider Northcerntral. Although NCU is fairly new, they seem to be making a great effort to build and develop. To me this is a good sign. I would also add to the list Touro University International. While there has been recent issues discussed due to shift in accreditation from branch campus to full independent institution (do a search to read concerns about the accreditation transfer, voiced by other members), Touro always seemed to have a good overall reputation, and much like Northcerntral they are expanding. In fact, they are currently starting a new medical school in my home state of Nevada.

    A few offshore schools I would consider are:

    Henley Management College (DBA)
    http://www.henleymc.ac.uk/
    I don't know if their doctoral programs have a residency, or if they will suit your needs. I do however know they have an excellent reputation and offer a distance doctoral degree program in business.

    University of South Africa
    http://www.unisa.ac.za/
    Again, may or may not suit your needs, but they are a very old and well established school offering a wide range of doctoral programs at a distance. Perhaps they may have a program in finance that suits your criteria.


    Here are links to the other two schools mentioned:
    http://www.tourou.edu/

    http://www.ncu.edu/

    Neither school seems to have that many alumni who hold faculty positions in higher education yet, but they both seem to be growing. They may have a far better known reputation in academic circles in the coming years.

    I am not in any sense an authority on distance education and am simply offering my opinion. This said, I suggest that you gather as much information as you can before making a decision on a school. Many of the other posters here can give you first hand insight into many of the schools listed, therefore continuing to search the forum and reading posts might be a wise course of action. Remember, the school must suit your needs because you will be dedicating years of your time to a program in it, and carrying it's name long after graduation.

    Good luck, and keep us all posted.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2004

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