Abandonment by Charles Sturt University

Now that you Charles Sturt University has abandoned me and dropped me in the deep end to sink or swim after taking my money for the DBA, IGS has not found 2 supervisors to replace the list of supervisors I have already had i.e.:

Dr YC Leong
Professor Siow
Dr Cheong (heart attack)
Dr Mark Koh
Dr Anthony Ngering

I have now ceased operations and IGS management has absolved themselves of all responsibilities to look after HELP Institute and as I am flying solo, I like to award myself all the credit of getting a distinction for perseverance, ambition, dedication and commitment to a seemingly lost cause.

 

Whats the problem salami? I dont quite understand - are you a DBA candidate left in the lurch or an operator of an affiliated campus?

Cheers,

George

 

Salami,
Thanks for flagging Charles Sturat. At one point I was looking into that university. I now will take out the all too powerful magic marker and cross them off the short list!
best,
Gavin

 

George,

Salami told the whole story on http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15876 this thread: http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15876

Salami,

I wish you all the best in getting help with your problem!

 

Hi All,

I have no dog in this fight but my experience has been the same advisor for the last three years and good steady support from old CSU.

So this is not a universal situation. I will not weigh in again.

BAH

 

I think you are lucky because you don't have to deal with franchises like IGS and work direct with CSU. I think the issue here is that CSU is not monitoring the franchises in other countries. I also find unethical that they allow local people to supervise dissertations, what is the point to do a DBA from charles sturt when local people are the real supervisors and administrators of the course? At the end, CSU is only granting the degree but you are getting service from a local institution

 

The same scenario as IGS and CSU is happening at KLC Consultants and University of Newcastle, Australia. The latest news is that UNC has pulled out their MBA affiliation with KLC. Many students are affected and various complains have been made against KLC in the ministry of education of Malaysia.

I strongly believe that the cause of this is mainly the substandard faculty and supervisors used by local Malaysian institutions and CSU and UNC have discovered the true qualifications of these people.

It would be a great if Mr. Salami could shed some light on experience and qualification of his supervisor at IGS.

Peter Chin

 

My first supervisor was a London University PhD grad, my second one a professor at a local university, the third from a UK university, the fourth graduated from a management centre in UK that closed down i.e. not recognised, the fifth from a university in Toronto.

The complaint from two of them was that the franchisee did not pay them so they rather opt out. Thus leaving me dangling like a fried fritter.

 

I would like to know why are developed country institutions doing this to the developing world. Figures money!!!!!!!!!!!

 

As the problem becomes clearer - and Peter Chin's message underlines the appratent nature of the problem too - it strikes me that the universities concerned (Charles Sturt and Newcastle) are in breach of the most elementary quality considerations. This underlines what I suspected from previous references to some Australian 'DBA' programmes, namely that these are of dubious quality in their support from the sponsoring universities and severely lacking in infra-structure. My original qualms arose when looking at their fees structure, which were well below what we assessed they needed to be for a DBA programme.

There are, in addition, serious flaws in their structure apart from setting fees to recruit customers in conditions where a high drop out rate, cynically, still contributes revenue.

In the UK, universities are obliged by their Royal Charters and Ordanances to matriculate all students who are registered on their degree programmes, irrespective of where they are studying or under what auspices. If you study for a UK degree you must be matriculated, i.e., must become a full student of the UK university and not just subject to the criteria required for matricualtion, but also become entitled to all the privileges and protections of the university for your course and your fees.

This does not seem to be the case in some Australian universities and I suggest that students aggrieved by being 'abandoned' by their Australian university contact the relevant State's Education ministry/department, which is now under obligation to enforce registration by any institution, public or private teaching university degrees in the State to comply with many regulations in regard to their duties to students.

While these incidents happened elsewhere (Malaysia) the matriculation requirement still makes CSU and Newcastle directly responsible for the students continuing education under the degree programmes they have joined. If CSU and Newcastle (itself a subject on this board of reports of disgraceful 'grade inflation' of the fraudulent kind) do not have this matriculation requirement in place (and the same goes to any other 'university' without the requirement), then their so-called 'DBA' can only be regarded as of suspect quality and should be avoided.

Students attending reputable institutions or none at all are matriculated students of HWU and should their institutions fold, cease operating or drop below our quality standards, they will be seen through to graduation (assuming they pass our exams) whatever the circumstances. For example, we had the experience of a Bangladeshi 'agent' who ran off with the advanced fees of about 100 students. Under our regulations we had to teach them out to the completion of their MBAs at no charge to the students and at a cost of over GBP100,000.

In my letter to CSU I raise these issues. I expect I will be told to 'mind my own business' or ignored. In either case I shall report here on what they say, or don't say, as the case may be.

 

Salami
While I appreciate that you are angry at what has happened I am not happy that you write:

"I would like to know why are developed country institutions doing this to the developing world. Figures money!!!!!!!!!!!"

Turning an incident of this nature into a 'developed' country versus the 'developing world' is the ante-chamber of going down a route to generalisation of the dangerous kind.

This porblem is one that is in a part of an institution in a country, Australia, with many fine institutions in concert with an institution in a country, Malaysia, also with many fine institutions, including many as good as those in the 'developed' world (of which I would place Malaysia as close to joining).

The remedies for your problem lie in the Australian education system taking full responsibility for its students. Keep focused on that and try to refrain from rhetoric behind which those responsible can hide.

 

You are right Professor Kennedy I should refrain from rhetoric but I am very disappointed that even with the institution that Peter Chin mentioned, a scandal happened two years ago and the Australian authorities were going to investigate the matter. All I know is if there was really an investigation why is the institution still operating in this manner? The scandal was reported in a national paper and no feedback was given on the result of the investigation.

Thanks for your support Professor Kennedy and sorry that I acted on impulse with my remarks, but I can't help feeling the injustice of the whole issue of education which is suppose to be respectable from so called respectable institutions.

I had spoken to an education consultant that advertises in another local newspaper and gives free advice to prospective students on institutions that misrepresent. I was shocked to hear that it is so rampant and one came even from the UK from a university that I held in high esteem. The student's program was also aborted and his situation was no different than mine.

Are we suppose to take all this lying down or are these issues going to be unresolved?

 

Hi Salami

Universities are slow moving at the best of times. It can be frustrating, as I know very well after three decades working in them, and since EBS achieved autonomy within its University (Heriot-Watt) we have often been stuck in the sand of university decision-making when it took us a short time to decide, but we had to await the discretion of our peers before they said 'yes'.

Universities are collegiate bodies with layers of peers having the power to make or block decisions. This ensures concensus. It can be slow moving but it has its compensations in the form of well tried regulations, such as the one I have mentioned that all students must be matriculated and part of the body of the university.

How CSU got round this sensible regulation I do not yet know. They appear to have devolved their responsibilities to another institution, which must be dangerous. Apart from what has happened to you (and presumably others) it is dangerous for the parent institution as it is its reputation that is in question now. A DBA with five supervisors in a short time and with faculty passing by seems a very weak arrangement.

Doctoral degree supervision is not a matter of hiring a post-doctoral student. A DBA it is not just a cheap solution to an expensive proposition.

There should be a Research Committee appointed in the parent university and it should have the professors from the Business School on it, plus senior professors from the University (ours has the University's Vice-Principal chairing it). From the Research Committee there should be a Academic supervisor from the Business School and a local supervisor carefully selected with doctoral qualifications and proven competence in business research subjects. The candidate DBA should have undertaken a taught programme (can be DL) to MSc level and passed a serious programme in Research Methods from which the research thesis is defined, and approved by the supervisors and the Research Committee.

Now, if anything goes wrong - the supervisor quits, dies, becomes ill, etc., it is the University's sole responsibility to replace the supervisor. I think having local institutions finding supervisors, or even having a role in the programme, a matter of the gravest quality concern. It sound like a cheap 'franchise' and it would be unlikely to pass the UK's Quality Assurance Agency inspection. Of course, this raises the cost but it does not risk the quality of the DBA or of the University promoting it.

In the meantime, I must await the replies to my letter to CSU. It is possible that CSU has a valid explanation and I must not preclude that possibility. I accept what you have reported in good faith, of course, but until I hear from them, they have the benefit of the doubt under normal standards of equity and fair dealing.

Meanwhile, you could write to the Dept of Education in Australia and ask for their help.

Kind regards

 

When I was doing my Masters in International Management I was made aware that there were limits to international law and that jurisdictions were limited to country's boundaries. It would be difficult to make the foreign institution accountable for their actions as the law only goes so far. International law only covers issues between countries and not between individuals. The limitations present loopholes and to some an opportunity.

It is sad that this loophole is exploited by some educational establishments and as long as emerging economies long for an education this issue will keep on arising. Question is how do you make the buyer more cautious Caveat Emptor, we all know that, but without some form of check and balance this will continue. How many victims will there be?

I for one was told by this education consultant that as a culture we are too passive, we are told to never answer back in classrooms for fear of retribution. Rightly or wrongly it takes two to tango and yes, both parties in any agreement to take on any venture are accountable. Those parties who regulate are also indirectly liable if nothing gets done.

With admiration to people like Professor Kennedy and my fellow country education consultant are the few who dare reveal the rights from the wrongs I hope this world can be a better place for those who just want to learn. If the education arena is plagued with injustices what hope do we have for those who are the product of those injustices to set a good example to others that follow.

 

Salami

An interesting development here where an Australian University is washing its hands of a franchisee and the students involved on grounds of its 'protection' under international law, Australia being a separate country from Malaysia.

Yet, Australia, under relatively new Federal Law, requires all foreign universities and any private organisations providing degree programmes in Australia to register with the State's education department where they intend to operate and further, requires such foreign universities and private agencies to set up a legal company in the State ('XYZ Univeristy Pty., Ltd"), wholly owned by the foreign institution, so that it has legal responsibility for any students it recruits should it cease to operate before the students complete their programmes, or it fails to deliver to its students what it purports to charge them for their courses.

The foreign university must pay the State education department a fee to be inspected (legal foundations, financial standing, official recognition, faculty, premises, students, etc.,) by the department's civil servants in the sum of a) GBP7,000 or b) GBP30,000. The first fee, a) is nominal and most reputable and recognised foreign universities (certainly those in the Association of Commonwealth Universities) would pass through the inspection at no extra charge; the second fee b) is aimed at raising the cost for suspicious looking 'degree mills'.

Those institutions that fail to be passed are listed as non-recognised institutions to operate in Australia and any attempt to do so by them will be pursued in the courts against the people involved. Several well known names to Degreinfo.com have already appeared on the proscribed list. This is seen as a crackdown on degree mills and on reputable foreign Universities that do precisely what Charles Sturt University appears to have done to you in Malaysia!

By forming a registered legal company in the name of the foreign institution, the institution accepts legal responsibility, actionable in law in Australia and pursuable in the UK, etc. This reponsibility cannot be evaded.

Now, Malaysia has been moving towards similar laws of registration and I would think that you should pursue this with the Education Ministry in Malaysia.

Charles Sturt University, in common with all Australian state universities, is a member of the Association of Commonwealth Universities, and you may wish to write to them in London (Gordon Square, if I remember right - check the local British Council office in Malaysia for their address). You could also write to the Australian High Commission in Kuala Lumpur and raise some questions with them and write asking questions to the Malaysian Hign Commission in Canberra, Australia. These interventions would have impact (slowly, though).

Kind regards

 

Salami, if I were in your place my first action would be to bring IGS and HELP to court demanding not only the full refund but compensation as well for the time wasted.

It is very simple since you have paid fees to IGS and not CSU and its their responsibility to ensure completion provided your dissertation has been accepted by CSU.

Email me and perhaps we can work out some solution.

Peter Chin

 

I was informed that IGS now has not found me a supervisor and is asking me to find my own examiners and supervisors for the dissertation as well. Ironic, as probably my mother, dog and maid might make good examiners and my tax consultant might make a good supervisor for my DBA.

According to my education consultant friend Greenwich University Australia also did some students in by leaving them in the lurch, they took legal recourse but ended up having themselves taken to the cleaners. Apparently, things got physical and ugly.

 

Greenwich Australia was a degree mill shut down by australian authorities. They are not longer taking students and the australian goverment is not responsible for their operations.

 

The more I see it even if I did complete my dissertation IGS has been known to keep the dissertation until it lapses and further sums of money must be coughed up. Approximately, RM1000 per month penalty. Now that I know this fact from my education consultant friend one is never ever going to pass. Infact, the only candidate who stood a chance of passing is 80% towards passing that makes it 20% towards failing. Still does not make sense. The coin still has not dropped for some and dreams of completing it are ringing strong.

As long as dreams are made, there would be people like myself who would be taken in by institutions like IGS and CSU. I feel disappointed that CSU is allowed to operate carte blanche here creating dreams and turning them into nightmares when one realizes what is happening. I still have a DBA candidate classmate who is in a state of denial. Get your own supervisor, get your own examiners, if this were so I might as well set up my own university. I got sucked in by a whirlwind and it has left mightly blows in its wake. How long is this going to take, I don't know I am waiting for some savior to expose the truth. Even then with the truth known in the media, the institutions get away with it and the regulators turn a blind eye.

The legal system is uncertain and those with political clout make it difficult to vent frustrations. Many private colleges have this political clout and I am afraid some are turning into universities. Will the machinery to check their operations be efficient and effective enough?

 

Today my colleague at my college said to me that the colleges are merging and consolidating, the pool of students are shrinking as the population slowly grows, neighbouring countries have better known universities and thus the education industry will no longer be as profitable as in the early 90s.

I am getting out of the industry and see it as being mature and saturated. Lecturers in finance have to lecture management, lecturers have to do charity work act like beggars, the salary is nothing to shout about with 40 hours a week one can barely stand straight at the end of an eight hour continous back to back session. Heck even toilet paper was being restricted and students' assignments were recycled into photocopy paper. I was asked to write a distance learning manual for a Welsh university by the college and all liability for copyright falls upon the lecturer, what happened to vicarious liability by the employer???? I was told now after termination of the contract my manual will not be used and I protected my butt by writing a disclaimer clause just in case I were hauled up by the copyrighters within the duration of ten years.

There are no unions to protect us, no legal recourse and further more being a lecturer is being at the end of a stick. We supervise dissertations for some third rate UK universities that as usual don't bother about transferring expertise. One UK educator said that to mark a dissertation meant reading the front and the back and that was it. Heck they even tried to pass off as better than Oxbridge!