University of Surrey School of Management

Using the forum search, I have found a few statements about the MBA program offered by University of Surrey. Some consider it as reputable as well known UK b-schools such as Warwick, U of London (Imperial / Royal Holloway), Henley or Heriot-Watt.

I did some more research and found this site:
http://members3.boardhost.com/sems-sucks/

The UniS School of Management is a merger of Surrey European Management School (SeMS) and the School of Management Studies for the Service Sector (SMSSS), so the obvioulsy less than wonderful reputation of SeMS might affect the recognition of the UniS MBA.

I would be highly interested in some thoughts from UK members of this forum: Does UniS School of Management have a decent reputation?

Is someone here enrolled in their program?

Thanks,
dinz

 

Broadening the focus a bit: Am I correct in assuming that out of

Warwick
Durham
Bradford
U of London
Strathclyde
Surrey
Heriot-Watt
Henley

all are well respected universities with good MBA programs, with Warwick, U of London (Imperial College) and maybe Henley and Strathclyde slightly ahead of the others in terms of reputation / name recognition?

Thank you,
dinz

 

I think your guess is about right, although I think Manchester, Aston and Grenoble also belong in that group of top schools offering a DL MBA in the UK or nearby. Aston also offers a DL DBA or PhD, and Manchester and Grenoble offer a DBA via DL.

Double-check to verify my info, as Manchester may have dropped their program, not certain. Also, I'm just assuming that the above schools offer the MBA as they offer the higher degree by DL, but that assumption may be incorrect. Dr. Kennedy will likely come to your rescue and get you far more info on UK programs than I could.

Best to you!

 

Hi,

Where did you know about Manchester may have dropped their program? I think they are still active in Hong Kong at least.

Regards

 

I didn't hear it from anywhere, but the last time I tried to check DL DBA info on their website a couple weeks ago, the link was bad, although it could've been just a computer glitch in my system or their server.

Also, there's precious little about it on their website, and what's there is kind of cunfusing, not really specifically stating that it can be obtained DL--although I may be looking in the wrong place. They're listed on Jonnies website as offering a DL DBA, but I just wasn't sure that it was still offered, so I qualified my post. If it is still offered--and you seem to have some info on this--it's a fine school and I would think would be a fine degree to obtain if you're a glutton for punishment after having finished your UoL MBA--by the way, that Imperial school's a very highly-regarded one, congrats on your excellent choice!

 

The Manchester Business School web site says very little about any of the DL porgrammes. In fact, if you didn't know where to look, you'd think there weren't any.

Try http://www.mbs-worldwide.ac.uk/programmes/dba/default.asp instead.

Angela

 

Thanks, Angela, I've never seen this site, just sketchy bits of info and obtuse references here and there on their main site.

 

Manchester Business School is now just a department in Manchester University. Way back in the 1980s, I used to teach at MBS (an independent School within but not run by the University, which made it of world class standards, er, its organisational arrangements and not me teahcing there!) on a part-time basis (commuting from Edinburgh) and it had a great research programme, a solid executive programme and a UK renowned MBA (second only after LBS).

Then the University, seeing a 'cash cow' pile of money, took it back into the University, and its decline began. Some years back it hived off its distance MBA programme into an alliance with a university in Wales and its reputation in research took a dive (it used to be very strong in banking and corporate education, its Professors being in the 'First Division').

If it has dropped, or downplayed its DL DBA as a prelude to dropping it, I would not be surprised. Other British universities have done the same, the most recent being the University of Glasgow. The only way to run a distance DBA is not by means of a DT DBA (which is not scalable). I know of only one British Business School that has managed to launch a successful DL DBA and maintain high academic standards, but it would be invidious to mention it here...

Of the Schools you mention, Aston has been in DL (well DT) for many years (at least since 1981), Grenoble runs a DL DBA - I think 'Kirstie'8 enrolled there, but have not seen her messages to Degree.info lately) and Henley offers a DT DBA (awarded by Brunel University). Its DT MBA is excellent.

Warwick MBA is of excellent quality (but DT, with scheduled cohorts and 4 years to complete), as are Cranfield, Henley, and Durham. University of London via Imperial College is an excellent on-campus MBA but its DT version is shared with Royal Holloway and is not (yet) up to scratch (IMHO), though it uses two DL courses originally written for and used by EBS.

Strathclyde, which claims the UK's first DL MBA (I was the faculty Project Manager who set it up in 1982-3 for Strathclyde) is an excellent on-campus MBA, but it has been in some serious organisational disarray this past year (a repeat of the 1981-2 'turmoil' it experienced).

The Bradford MBA is reported to be fine, but I have no direct knowledge (is it DT or DL?). Of the bunch, the Durham MBA is closest to the DL model I often speak about here (imitation being the sincerest form of flattery!). I know nothing of Surrey's MBA, but knowing nothing of a university's programmes is no basis to make a judgement.

 

Professor Kennedy:

What would be your top 5 distance Business Doctorates in the UK? Or do you feel free to say? Why not tell us the best, whether it's a program with which you have affiliation or not, I value your opinion.

 

I am not a fan of 'rankings', especially those complied by journalists who are filling a feature page and are guided by unresearched pedagogy, also known as campus oritented prejudice. I also try to avoid giving opinions in debates over opinions (except in the important case of football - the real version not the handball imitation).

A number of institutions have recently started and then dropped their DBA programmes. This would reflect peer reviews conducted by their peers in other faculty departments and the imminence of visits by the Quality Assurance Agency in which the main -sole - goal of the institution is to avoid criticism and especially when it is avoidable in the case of new and risky innovations such as in DL DBAs.

Other institutions have started DBAs because they see a market in them, but lack the solid foundations upon which a DBA should be based. It seems to be a cheap way to money - sign students up and require them to write extended projects into 'dissertations' and bank the money. This usually reflects their poorly designed MBAs with their soft exams.

There are several well founded DL DBAs in the UK. Some follow the UK doctoral mode of 'thesis only' and others the North American mode of taught element (DL or DT) and thesis element.
I prefer for DBAs (but not PhDs) the North American mode: first a MSc level taught courses (by DL and examined by a rigorous regime) and then a 'research gateway' through which the doctoral candidate must pass before embarking on the thesis/dissertation. This is guided and assessed by the School's Research Committee (which should have senior members from the rest of the University on it). The thesis part should also be supervised at two levels - directly from highly qualified research oriented supervisor (can be located close to the candidate's region) amd a centrally lcoated senior supervisor who monitors progress. The dissertation when ready would be examined by the Research Committee and External Examiners from other Universities.

Now, if the DBA programmes in the UK conform towards the latter model, I would recommend them to candidates; if not I would not.
Apart from my own institution's DBA this would bring the Henley (Brunel) DBA into approved (by me) status. I am not sure we would get a 'top five' DL DBA group in the UK, but with the spate of new developments I would stand correction on this assessment. The Glasgow has wound down its DL DBA programme is disapointing as its reputation is very good. I have strong reservations about the DBAs from a few other places, though that reservation would nto apply to DBAs from LBS, Oxford, Cambridge and Warwick, because these Universities have such strong credentials and reputations that they would not risk either in a dubious DBA programme.

 

If my knowledge of this is accurate, you're mentioning Oxbridge/LBS/Warwick as examples of NON-distance DBAs offered in the UK that have good reputations by dint of the overall programs' strengths; you weren't claiming that they now offer or plan to offer DL, are you?--though I've corrsponded with insiders at Cambridge who cliam they may finally roll out a DL MBA after all.

You obviously have reservations about Manchester's DL DBA, and think highly of Henley, but what about Aston and Grenoble? You didn't really commit on them--and do you have any knowledge of Aston's PhD via DL? Would you recommend it? Obviously your employer rates high in your opinion--I'm sure if they didn't you wouldn't have stayed with them all these years--can you say more about that program? Were I to apply and be accepted in a couople years, would you be my mentor?

You are an outstanding ambassador for your school and for DL business learning in general; I appreciate your insight.

All the best to you!

 

Actually, none of those four offer a DBA at all.

What I believe Prof Kennedy is referring to is that there are certain universities in the UK who will not engage in any activities that might provide reputational risk, no matter how profitable said activity might be. From such a university, any programme will always be academically stringent.

Having been on the development team for Oxford's first online programmes, I can honestly say that I think the snowball in hell has got a much better chance than that of Oxford offering an online or DL DBA within the next five years.

If I had to bet on which one would, it would probably be Warwick, if only because they've got the experience from their MBA programme.

Again?

Angela

 

It's like Harvard over here, they don't care how many schools take the bait and go DL, they refuse to offer their MBA via distance--although they do offer a handful of courses online, although they involve videos downloadable of the lecture, essentially taking as much of the "Harvard experience" as possible and delivering it to the distance student. There are a lot of very prestigious schools over here offering DL degrees: Stanford, Columbia and Duke, for example.

 

Dear Prof. Kennedy,
I would like to ask you two questions:

1. What would - in your mind - be the 'weaker' DBA programmes in GB? (if you do not want to explictily post them because of your profession and affiliation, I would be very glad if you could send me a Private Message via the system). I would not want to enter into a programme that is considered as 'dubios' or have a low reputation...

2. Which universities in GB do offer 'thesis-only' (DL) DBA programmes?

Thank you very much,

best regards,

T.

 

mrw142

I mentioned both Grenoble and Aston earlier. Grenoble DBA is being undertaken by 'Kirstie8', a member of this board, but she has not reported recently. She tried to get into Henley but was put off by its application for AACSB status which was held up by the Henley DBA being awarded by Brunel University and not by Henley (a management college, not a university, which has a Royal Charter only for its MBA, previously awarded also by Brunel, a full British university with a Royal Charter). It was and is my view that it is only a matter of time before Henley receives an extention to its Royal Charter to cover the DBA. Try her Personel Messages to find out what as happened.

Aston has been in Distance Learning (well, actually Distance Teaching) for as long as I have (1981) and is a Univeristy with the usual official British accreditation (Royal Charter). I know of its MBA but not is DBA, if it has one in DT format. I know nothing of its DBA by DT (or DL!).

My School does not do PhDs yet, though this will be an inevitable development through 2006-8 as we develop MScs in Marketing, Finance, HRM in 2005-6. Alas, I am close to retirement and may not be fulltime by 2006-7, but who knows what services I may still perform while retired to France...
Kind regards

 

Angela

I agree with your assessment of the likelihood of Oxford putting on an online DBA and of Warwick probably been the first of that group to do so.

Warwick's MBA is strictly Distance Teaching not Distance Learning because it imposes campus type restrictions on its MBA (set intakes, fixed, slow, terms, etc.).

Chicago is probably typical in its reluctance to go into DL MBAs or DBAs. It is, in common with most 'top' Schools, unwilling to risk its highly lucrative campus programes and the wrath of its alumni who would be livid at what they would regard as a dilution of their branded MBAs by DL/DT. Let alone its faculty, cushioned by heavy endowments and 'star' performances for its high Gmat students and graduates who go onto to big jobs in US corporate life. We should always remember that not only the students 'network' for serious purposes!

Kind regards

 

Triggersoft

For obvious reasons I would not place on public record any opinions about other named Schools, let alone my own. Opinions are just that, and rightly suspect too.

I have long drawn attention to the criteria of exam regimes. If they apply to a School that you know of you can make your own judgement.

I have also drawn attention to the distinction between Distance Teaching (based on campus bias, mainly unresearched) and Distance Learning, which we have researched.

A problem for you is that many Schools have dubious pedagogies but this is not reflected in their reputations! This arises because campus dominated unofficial 'accreditation' agencies tolerate outrageous lapses in standards in a self-promoted set of criteria which they must all stand by in case it collapses.

Examples include (in DL) soft exam regimes (choice of questions, open book, non-independent even uninvigilated exams, continuous assessment and projects written off campus and out of sight, raising provenance questions as to who wrote or compiled them, grades for 'participation in class', even 'attendance', and grade inflation to ensure high completion rates to score well in 'rankings' written by journalists).

In addition, there is widespread 'economy with the truth' to meet unoffical 'accreditation' criteria (exaggerating faculty numbers, blurring the boundary between 'undergraduate and post-graduate' teachers, emphasis on inputs not outputs, and equating 'quality' with prior-qualifications with 'output' - when the statistical evidence suggests a weak causal relationship).

However, enough of me on my hobby horse. If you send me a PM with the name(s) of the Schools you are considering I will repond in kind on a strictly confidential basis with my opinions, and opinions are, of course, two a penny.

 

Thanks for everything; your opinion is worth far more to me than two farthings!

Regards,

Mike

 

Dear Prof. Kennedy,

that´s what I suspected, and it´s not a problem at all - though, still there is the question which British university awards a DBA degree by thesis only? (as you remarked)?

Thanks for your help,

regards,
T.

 

Wooohoooo! I have just received an offer of a place on the Warwick MBA!

Thanks everyone for your invaluable help in this thread and the forums in general!