University of London - DL LLM

Just checking in with Nosborne48.

My application to the UoL LLM program is pending, and I'm hoping for a favorable decision in the near future.

Am I correct that you have already taken your first two LLM exams? I believe they are normally offered late August, early September.

Any observations or thoughts you'd like to share about the experience?

Did you go it solo, or enlist the aid of a tutorial service?

Are exams do-able solo, or is a tutorial service really "mandatory"?

Although I'm certain you won't need it, wishing you the best of luck with the results of your first set of exams!

 

No, I am set to take the first half in August 2005 and the second half August 2006.

I signed up with law tutors online. I need a LOT more structure than the University program provides. Plus, the English approach is somewhat different than the American one.

 

nosborne48:
A few questions: how is the approach different in UK vis-a-vis US; how expensive is the law tutorial service; and why would want of structure be a stumbling block--in other words, you managed to pass through three years of law school and I assume the bar, are UoL LLM studies that daunting? I'm thinking if you managed to master the Rule Against Perpetuities well enough to get through Property Law, what on earth could be so intimidating about the London program? If it's that tough, I'm intrigued enough to consider enrolling after I finish this DL MBA.

Cheers!

 

The University offers no tuition. Therefore, I can't tell just what I should be studying. There is a LOT of material out there.

Also, the criminal law option is as much criminology as it is law. Criminology as a social science is not something I know much about.

Finally, I find it hard to work out concepts alone. It is much easier for me to bounce concepts off someone else than to simply memorize everything.

It HAS been a mind opening experience! I recommend it.

Oh, LTO charges about 650 pounds for two subjects. Not bad, really. The overall cost of the degree will still be reasonable.

 

$650 pounds--that's about $1000 USD, isn't it? If so, that's about only $2K USD for total tutoring and the degree's about $3K USD. So long as I'm right about the prices--correct me if I'm wrong--I'd say that's one whale of a value. That's a world-class university, and if you can run that gauntlet of four exams, kudos to you. Sounds al-in-all more rigorous than the average U.S. LLM program.

A couple more questions: so they give you virtually no guidance, just say "study away" kind of like the bar? Also--and this is just me being nosy--where'd you go to law school?

Best to you!

 

You're pretty close on the total cost, excluding textbooks.

I received my J.D. in 1986 from the University of New Mexico (total tuition for all three years together: $2,500)

I was admitted to the New Mexico Bar in 1986.

No, they give you study guides that are complete and well written but cover INCREDIBLE amounts of "must read" material. A great deal of it is repetitious but how do you KNOW unless you read it?? Well, by using a tutor, that's how.

 

How in the world did you swing that tuition? Was part of your education under a scholarship?

My wife almost went to the University of New Mexico for graduate work, it came down to that or AZ, we decided to go a little farther West. You've got 8 more years of atty experience under your belt than I do. Thanks for the info!

Mike

 

can anyone answer


1. what does getting the llm accomplish professioannly

2. how good is the reputation of univ of london

3. what is total cost of program. what is involved

 

Back in the mid 1980s, that's what instate tuition WAS. Well, they gave me a $1,000 grant, too.

The LL.M. will likely have no effect whatever on my career.

The University of London enjoys a good reputation throughout the common law world.

 

yankees98a

The UoL has a great reputation, especially with London being essentially the epicenter of the common law world. If nosborne can pass his four courses, he will have scaled quite a mountain and have serious bragging rights. As an external student with zero face time, he will nonetheless be held to the same standards with grading and testing as any regularly matriculated law student at the UoL--quite a feat, should he do it--I wish him the best!

Academia is the primary area where an LLM may help your career. Occasionaly, a practicing attorney will pursue one--I had a friend in law school who pursued an LLM in Taxation at Baylor. The taxation specialization is the most common one you see and can sometimes help you get a job in that field.

Generally though, nosborne's right, it's not a qualification that has a huge effect on most careers outside of academia; the dean of my law school even sneered at the LLM, said it was for those who hadn't done quite well enough in getting their JD and needed the additional qualification to open the doors to academia--reverse snobbery.

 

Nosborne - Just curious as to which four subjects you'll be writing exams in, for each of the two years. I suspect at least Theoretical Criminology and Juvenile Justice?

"Assuming" that I am in fact admitted to the UoL LLM program, I'll likely be taking Insurance Law, Maritime Insurance, Carriage of Goods By Sea, and International and Comparative Commercial Arbitration.

Did you find much difficulty in finding a tutorial service who would agree to offer the courses you were interested in? I'm a little afraid there might not be sufficient "demand" for the LLM courses I', interested in, and might be up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle.

 

Nosborne:

Just wanted to let you know that I do NOT agree with my former dean's assessment of the LLM; it's just a story I tell from time to time to illustrate how absurd snobbery can become: "Him, well, we all know about him, he was so inept he was awarded the more advanced degree."

badpenguin

By the way, what is your motivation for pursuing the LLM and adding to your rather impressive list of qualifications and soon-to-be qualifications?

Also curious--that's quite a handle, what's its origin?

 

Actually, excepting the LL.M. in taxation which is best thought of as a "second professional degree", I think the assessment is fundamentally correct.

If a young law student wants a career in academia, his J.D. should be from a top tier school and he should graduate in the top 10% or so.

If he really wants an additional degree, he should consider a Ph.D. in a law related field like sociology, law and justice, or political science. Personally, if I had it to do over, I'd have taken my bachelorate in a hard science or engineering.

I had no trouble finding a tutor for criminology, juvenile justice and crim process. I'll have to go to SPR for admiralty, probably. Semple Piggot Rochez.

 

If a young law student wants a career in academia, his J.D. should be from a top tier school and he should graduate in the top 10% or so.
___________________________________________

Unless, of course, his academic aspirations are to teach business law at a community college, in which case a pulse and a J.D. shall suffice--perhaps the pulse is optional!

 

MRW -

I suppose I am viewing the UoL as the proverbial killing of two birds with one stone.

I spent about six years in the reinsurance industry as a low-level corporate officer. For the "killing of the first bird", career advancement, while my colleagues decided to pursure MBA's, I went down a different path, the JD. My belief (perhaps incorrect) is that the analytical thinking skills acquired during JD study would be valued by Corporate America as equaling or exceeding that of the MBA.

Since a JD has no "major" per se, the UoL LLM allows me to take 50% of the degree coursework in insurance coursework, 25% in a maritime course (insurance/reinsurance certainly deals with the maritime industry), and 25% in an arbitration course.

For the "killing of the second bird", probably more for personal satisfaction than career advancement, I will likely continue on with the UNISA LLD, which also has a "major" in insurance law.

As for the handle, well... the "penguin" part has something to do with a Monty Python skit, and the "bad" part is attributable I believe to Mae West, with the "When I'm good, I'm very good, and when I'm bad..."

Nosborne -

When I become admitted (note the positive thinking!) to the UoL LLM program, I will likely try SPR as my first choice for tutorial services, and LTO as a backup. Let me know how your experiences with each provider go.

 

Have you looked into this DL LLM that's ABA accredited? A little more expensive, but from a very solid US school, can be completed via distance, specialty in Insurance Law.

http://www.law.uconn.edu/academics/ilc/distlrn.html

Best to you!

 

MRW -

Sorry for delayed response, computer was on "vacation" for a few days!

Thanx for the suggestion.

Actually, I had visited the campus with a colleague who was enrolled in the LLM program, at a time when it was not offered via D/L.

Good program. But after just $helling out big buck$ for the ABA JD, I think the only thing I'll really lose by selecting UoL is high tuition bills.

My JD is from Brooklyn Law, certainly not a "top 10" school, but still respectable. I believe that in going for the LLM, either UoL's or UConn's program would be viewed equally as favorable. Especially in light of it being a stepping stone towards a UNISA LLD. Or am I wrong?

Thanx!

Thanx!

 

badpenguin:

I think you're probably right. That UoL LLM is one of the best values anywhere--provided you can pull off passing all four units and get the degree. Brooklyn is a fine school, second tier, top 100, nothing to sneeze at by any means.

All the best to you!