Union Degree Titles-From OBR

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by RevRenee, Sep 2, 2004.

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  1. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    Dear President Sublett:

    This letter constitutes the Ohio Board of Regents response to your request regarding degree titling for Union Institute & University for students admitted to the Doctor of Philosophy in Interdisciplinary Studies in the Arts & Sciences degree program prior to the June 2002, reauthorization review. Your request is twofold: 1) in that there is a request to continue the past practice of titling the degree as "Doctor of Philosophy" only (again, for those students admitted prior to the
    2002 reauthorization review), and 2) to be advised of the appropriate listing of concentration areas on student transcripts.

    Prior to the 2002 reauthorization review, the Regents engaged the UI&U in several communications and meetings regarding concern over the Ph.D. degree title and the expanded areas of concentration in the doctoral program that were not covered under the Regents'
    authorization. In those communications, the Regents asserted the parameters of the Ph.D. degree authorization, which included the degree title and the areas of concentration for which UI&U had been reviewed and authorized. Collaboratively, UI&U and the Regents named the concentration areas as follows:
    • Interdisciplinary Studies in Organizational Behavior/Development
    • Interdisciplinary Studies in Educational Leadership/Systems
    • Interdisciplinary Studies in Psychology
    • Interdisciplinary Studies in Public Policy/Administration
    • Interdisciplinary Studies in Arts and Sciences
    • Interdisciplinary Studies in Clinical Psychology.

    Therefore, and in answer to the institution's first question, for students matriculated into the Ph.D. program prior to the 2002 reauthorization review, Regents' staff determined that the Union Institute & University may continue to title those degrees as "Doctor of Philosophy" only for the purpose of phasing out that degree title in an appropriate manner. Secondly, Regents' staff determined that the concentration areas listed on a student's transcript for the Ph.D.
    program i.e., for those same students matriculated prior to the 2002 reauthorization review, must also accurately reflect the authorization and the agreed upon names of the six focus areas of the degree:
    Interdisciplinary Studies in Organizational Behavior/Development, Interdisciplinary Studies in Educational Leadership/Systems, Interdisciplinary Studies in Psychology, Interdisciplinary Studies in Public Policy/Administration, Interdisciplinary Studies in Arts and Sciences, and Interdisciplinary Studies in Clinical Psychology.

    Finally, the degree title for students enrolled in the program after the 2002 reauthorization review will read as follows: Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) in Interdisciplinary Studies in the Arts and Sciences. Concentration areas should not be listed on the diploma and transcripts should accurately reflect the six agreed upon focus areas as noted above.

    We hope this letter has adequately addressed your questions.

    Respectfully,


    Jack Connell
    Assistant Director
    Academic & Access Programs
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The focus areas are news to me. It didn't affect me because I matriculated before the 2002 review. So I got to keep my concentration and specialization.
     
  3. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    Secondly, Regents' staff determined that the concentration areas listed on a student's transcript for the Ph.D.
    program i.e., for those same students matriculated prior to the 2002 reauthorization review, .must also accurately reflect the authorization and the agreed upon names of the six focus areas of the degree:


    Rich - read it again :(
     
  4. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member


    Yeah? Good luck getting those diplomas back so that they can be edited. :rolleyes:



    Tom Nixon
     
  5. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    LOL Tom

    I wonder though what the older diplomas actually SAY.

    Union claims that diplomas handed out before 2002 simply say PHD or Doctor of Philosophy. No field of any sort

    Anyone know if this is what their Union diplomas --ACTUALLY READS.

    I do not mean what degree you believe they promised and gave you.. I am askig about the actual wording on the physical document.

    I also suspect this could vary by

    1. Whether it was before or after 1998
    2. Who happened to be writing them up


    Rev Renee
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    My Union diploma just says "Doctor of Philosophy," which is not an uncommon thing.

    My transcript indicates a Ph.D. in Interdisciplinary Studies with a Concentration in Higher Education and a Specialization in Nontraditional Higher Education.

    No one, NO ONE has ever said anything about those 6 concentration areas listed in the letter you quote. I have trouble accepting this, since Union has not developed curricula around them, the "Blue Book" (Union's Learner Policy Handbook) says nothing about them, and Union's website has never mentioned them. (It seems the website has recently added some new progams, however.)

    I've been pretty involved with Union since first getting their materials in 1980. I've never seen these in print, and I've never heard any faculty members talking about them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2004
  7. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    I hear you Rich.

    And those who entered before 1998 never heard anythng about this "PHD in Interdisciplinary Studies " stuff..no less this wild 6 concentration areas stuff.

    In fact , the only mention of these six areas I have heard before this was in the context of the administration proposing to faculty that these be used and the faculty saying..No way LOL

    I do not think current students who DID matriculate in 2002 or later have heard of this..yet.

    I suspect my posting it and sending it to faculty will be the first for many if not most.

    Just to make matters MORE difficult..According to the NCA the Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences degree is fine but NOT "slipping in the professional degrees under that title"

    So when this all comes out UGh Ugh

    I think I said Ugh already!


    Here is a question. You graduated before 2002 and had a PHD in Interdisciplinary Studies with a concentration in X...(transcript)

    The Diploma just says Doctor of Philosophy ?

    I have seen lots of dissertation front pages and CV's and some transcripts of graduates but not Diplomas.

    How normal is it for a diploma to say just PHD and not what the PHD is in?

    R
     
  8. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator

    It routinely happens at the undergraduate and masters levels.
     
  9. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    Cool.

    Assuming that is correct..that Diplomas often list the sort of degree MA, BA, PhD

    What about Transcripts

    I am pretty sure mine simply says
    Degree: PhD
    Department: Philosophy
    And the same with My MA and BA Transcripts

    (The BA Diploma has the WHOLE Title of both Majors and even lists the sort of honors received...but the MA says Masters of Philosophy with Honors

    I'll find out what the PhD says in October-my classmates who already received their diploma's do not remember LOL)


    So it is sounding like just PhD on the Diploma is fine

    And also that a transcript can just abbreviate PhD. Field
    or PHD, Department

    and not state the whole title



    Ok assuming that is correct --that either the full or the abbreviations are perfectly kosher on Diploma and on the transcript

    What about on the Dissertation cover page?

    Mine and most I have read until recently stated "In partial Fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in FIELD" and School.

    However, I have a friend who will graduate the semester after me and the instructions at Penn State now simply state Doctor of Philosophy and The School or Department on the front page.

    Anyone know why this change in the academic world?

    Given the change it would be possible for someone's official records not to give any clue of WHAT field they earned a Doctorate .

    So for example if Rev Sedgwick (who was told by Union she would get the PhD in Religious Studies had a transcript that said

    Degree: PhD
    Concentration: Arts and Sciences

    and a Diploma : PhD

    and a title page that did not state PhD in Religious Studies

    She could actually still have a PhD in Religious Studies on her CV and not be lying...

    Heh or with the smae paperwork..she COULD be lying


    ####&&& Confused###****

    I like it the old fashion way..full degree title on the Diploma and coverpage

    I am confused about what seems to have changed in the last couple of years

    Anyone help sort that out?
     
  10. maranto

    maranto New Member

    My Union diploma (1997) just states Doctor of Philosophy, as well. Most of the doctorates that I've seen from other schools tend to do the same thing. I guess it depends on the school, but at least anecdotally, I've only seen a few that list the discipline.

    Cheers,
    Tony
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It is routine to have only the degree title and not the major.

    My B.A. diploma is this way, and so is my Ph.D.

    The transcript states the concentration and specialization. Transcripts are prepared by the learner and and approved by both the learner and the school before publication.

    The learner comes under the "Blue Book" in place when he/she matriculated. Up until at least 2003, no mention was made of the 6 concentration areas.

    Union learners are discussing these matters at great length on their Yahoo discussion group. Files related to this between Union and the OBR and NCA are also posted there.

    It's hard for me to get warmed up about this for two reasons. First, I've graduated. While I'd like my transcript to be less cluttered with this, it doesn't make any difference in the end. And in some ways, the emphasis on interdisciplinarity harkens back to what Union once was, which is a good thing.

    Second, I wrote a very long response to the OBR report and sent it to Roger Sublett about 8 months ago. (Of course, he didn't respond. He's in imperious nitwit who's going to crash this whole thing if others around him aren't careful.) In it I made the case, among many things, for non-Ph.D. doctorates--except for one in Interdisciplinary Studies. I made the case for developing competencies in several areas (education, business, psychology, etc.) to award the Ed.D., D.B.A., Psy.D., etc. That looks likely, according to Union's latest response to the OBR. If so, this will move Union more towards the Fielding model, which has proven successful. It will stop Union from trying to be all things to all people, and require both the school and its faculty to develop core capabilities. Finally, it would retain that one Ph.D. "wildcard" for those who want a learner-centered, research-based, Ph.D. in their area of choosing. They would give up, however, the power of having a major in it. I did not forsee, however, the limitation of concentration areas--but it makes sense.

    There are some changes I absolutely don't like. I don't like the idea that the adjuncts have to come from doctoral granting schools. This means we miss out on working with the true experts in our respective fields, settling for, in some cases, campus-based flunkies. The pressure was put on Union to build a core faculty with an academic--not practicing professional--record. But much is lost from this.

    I also don't like the changes to the Peer's role on the committee. While I like the idea that a Peer should already be certified, taking away that person's vote violates the purpose of the peers, which is to ensure ownership of the program. The "Peer" should become "Buddy and Silent Partner." I will be resigning my role as Peer on two committees if this goes into effect on those learners' programs.

    Other things I do like: requiring more residencies (6 seminars instead of 3), and tying them more to the degree program (which, unfortunately, hinders the interdisciplinarity they're striving to recapture). I also like not awarding academic credit for the 10 Peer Days, which I always found suspect. Finally, I like the two extra committee meetings (by phone) at crucial junctures to ensure learners have fully developed--and have gotten approval for--their PDE proposals. This was a sorely lacking point in the old design, a throwback to Union's original model of completing doctorates begun somewhere else (sometimes).

    The changes are good, but Rev Renee's point that the rules are being changed on learners in the pipeline merits scrutiny. I felt a little bugged by the changes in place when I returned, but at least I graduated under the same rules in place when I re-entered. I'd be pretty ticked if I started to earn a degree with my own concentration, only to find myself shoved into one of 6 pre-designated boxes.
     
  12. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    Hey Rich

    If you wrote a long report to that OBR Report...You must have the obr report :)

    If its the report from the reauthorization visit in 2002 or 1998...we REALLY would love to have it on the Open Union Listserv

    Please share :) I'd be greatful if you could either email it to me or post it on that Open Union List

    I don't know much about Sublett except that he doesn't respond to learners or their committees, seems hyper defensive and surrounds himself with people who do not seem real competent (By competent I mean really basic sort of doingthe tasks type competence)

    Where you and I may differ vision wise is the humanities and liberal arts versus the professional school model:)

    That also seems to be the crux of the differences between OBR and THe NCA.

    In either case I really find it hard to think anyone should go NEAR Union at this point. It isn't just the degree title..its that really they are doing nothing for the students and it is a total constant mess and heartache...

    One cannot even get a simple answer to a silly "what documents are required" type question without having to hold a major protest March and stage a hunger strike! LOL I am kidding..but only sort of kidding.

    My interest is the humanities. My ideal is more like the early days of Hampshire College rather than the old Union :)

    Boy do I love Hampshire. And while there were problems and battles with the administration..these were over ISSUES, CONCERNS and DIRECTIONS..not getting a form signed in less than 4 months!

    Best
    R
     
  13. jon porter

    jon porter New Member

    And doctoral -- mine says ". . . admitted to the degree of Doctor of Philosophy."
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    An interdisciplinary, learner-centered Ph.D. program was a great idea when the UECU was formed. It had the backing of the colloquium of schools and was very cutting-edge. It was this little thing, and each learner seemed to push on through to a high level of quality. But....

    As Union evolved (quickly) into a free-standing school (in reality, the Ph.D. program was techically always free-standing; the UWW programs were sometimes housed in their host schools), the problems really began to arise. They stemmed from academics, with little or no understanding how to operate a tuition-based school, trying to be administrators. The UECU was sued into bankruptcy court by students and faculty, which caused a major shake-up. Then the Union got itself on track (financially, anyway), but the "loosey-goosey, do what you want" approach that they got away with when they were small remained. The kinds of things the OBR and the USDoE complained about were known long before 2002, but previous administrations didn't address them. These kinds of things could have been finessed, but they were ignored and allowed to fester. And the school STILL doesn't understand about the need to have and use solid administrative processes. Then there's their inability to effectively desing new programs to meet market demands, as well as their inability to effectively promote the programs. Oh, and how about their inability to secure funding? They could have sought some deep=pockets benefactor and sold the naming rights to the school, for example, instead of choosing that stupid name (and wasting an opportunity. Hey, even at commencement--which is a good time to bring in donors and give them a degree--they brought in some guy with philosophical ties to UECU, but not with a big fat check. And so it goes....
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Q: So, Rich, you've ripped Union pretty hard. Didn't you graduate from there?

    Yes, and I'm glad I did.

    After all you've said about Union's mistakes, why do you say that?

    Because of several reasons. First, I got to work on my field of choice (nontraditional higher education) in a school that represented the whole idea (Union). Second, I got to work with the leading expert and author in the field, John Bear, someone whose books I'd read, but with whom I never would have had occasion to collaborate otherwise. Third, I got to learn an awful lot about my field and my place in it. (That one is very much a work in progress.) Finally, I received a good, accredited, Doctor of Philosophy degree. That's damn nice. :cool:

    And what about Union? What's in their future?

    Well, I suspect the bachelor's and master's programs will be just fine. But the doctoral program has to change. I suspect they'll do what I asked them to do--without ever having considered what I wrote, of course. They'll water down the Ph.D., allowing learners to still design programs the old way, but getting a degree that doesn't quite have the same oomph in terms of concentrations and specializations. I don't think that will hurt too many people, though. And then they'll develop specific programs in education, business, and psychology to award the Ed.D., D.B.A., and Psy.D., respectively. I suspect they have--or can acquire--sufficient core faculty to cover these.

    Do these things obliterate what Union was? To some extent. But what it was cannot be, administratively, financially, even academically. When Union did it, no one else was. But with Fielding, Nova Southeastern, NCU, Walden, Argosy, Capella, Touro, and others in this field, Union can no longer claim the high ground. Those other schools developed alternative delivery systems while maintaining traditional curricular structure. It will be hard for Union to justify their need to remain as they are. So they won't (except for the funny little Ph.D. in Interdisciplinary Studies, which will also have much of its content already provided to the learner).

    Rich Douglas
    Ph.D., Union Institute and University
    MBA, National University
    BS, BA, AA, The University of the State of New York
    AAS, Community College of the Air Force.

    Rose are red
    Violets are blue.
    I'm a schizophrenic
    And so am I.
     
  16. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    Hmmm

    Well the UIU administrative incompetence is well known. Although the new administration DID want to change Union to go with the market (professional degree focus versus Liberal Arts focus)
    I do not think they would disagree with you there.

    The faculty would of course :)


    Rich, your post sound to me like a suggestion that alternative schools need to simply go with market forces.

    A bit part of setting up our educational system was JUST the opposite idea --

    That to really create a meaningful educational system there needed to be a certain amount of distance from the market forces so that the _educational_ mission could take priority.

    With the cutbacks of federal funds and the push toward bringing in money through departments of business and applied degrees the university which preserves the thinking and training at its center has been religated to a smaller and more elite population.

    The administrative issues have existed througfhout Union's history, and the uneveness of degrees (I have seen some of the best from Union and some that would not pass as essays from my college freshmen) als existed throughout its history.

    What is new is the professional school attitude and approach to learning.

    Methodology to Union now means empirical research and statistics. engagingthe Literature of ones field-- now means a "literature review". Real intellectual inquiry in humanities is labeled "old fashioned pure academics" and a balance of theory and practice means practice with a smattering of liberal ideology and political thought.

    The study of "ancient egypt" means studying "alternative theorists" whose suggestions fail in light of actual egyptological findings and scholarship..and the idea that the Learner doing such "scholarly research" and supporting the idea needs to engage the actual scholarly literature in accepted field or fields related to thier claims and not JUST the alternative theorists is dismissed. New Age is in..go to any Bookstore and you will see:)
    Rev Sedgwick started with a core faculty member who sitting across from probably the most famous Africanist Scholar in the US and a highly respected older religion scholar insisted that the Ancient Egyptians actualy came from outter space and other easily refuted new age nonsense. In order to not be required to consider such nonsense she and the doctoral committee had to *argue* with a Dean that it is NOT a lack of "Interdisciplinarity" to refuse to consider or include such mateial in her research!
    The Dean has a professional degree and no clue about how traditional lierasl arts fields operate
    The faculty who ARE solid in liberal arts like Susan Amussen and Elizabeth Minnich etc...have left.

    This pleases the administration as it opens up faculty lines to hire folks in leadership etc (You can read this in some of the documentation posted at the Open Union forum on Yahoo

    Union HAS gone with the Market.
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    A tuition-based school that ignores the market (where the tuition comes from) is doomed.
     
  18. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    Agreed.

    Yet school driven by the market fails to be an institution of higher education:D


    So, the trick for serious liberal arts oriented schools is to pay attention to the Market in a way that allows ITS agenda to lead the Market rather than the other way around.

    There are always niche markets. Perhaps the desire to be the huge University rather than the high quality graduate institute is a part of the problem.

    I think of all the community businesses that instead of maximizing their unique role AS community busnesses try to compete with Big Corporations. I worked with some small specialized bookstores. They could have thrived by setting up a niche for their unique gifts and really capitalizing (no pun intended) on the community in which they lived and their psychology, philosophy and religion specialty.

    Instead of developing that they went with some plug and play system that allowed them to order more books and look like an Amazon.Com.

    :(

    They closed. Many colleges are fsaced with a similar choice. Union is right there now in my opinion..and making the wrong choices
     
  19. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    True. Only my Associate's diploma lists my major, the other ones just say "Bachelor of Arts" and "Master of Arts".
     
  20. RevRenee

    RevRenee New Member

    This is interesting.

    While not directly or solely related to Union situation.. I went and checked out different schools practices on the main page of the dissertation submitted to UMI

    These also vary --A LOT

    A penn state the diploma reads just PHD
    regardless of ones field

    THe main page of the dissertation used to have the full degree title but now does not ..it only states the degree and the school or department granting the degree

    So PHD Graduate Schoolof Liberal Arts Penn State University

    Penn State DOES list a MAJOR on the transcript

    However some schools do not at all.

    So then if you get a diploma that says PHD, a transcript that does not list the full degree title and don;t list it in the title page of the dissertation...

    errr.. how does anyone verify anything about the degree you actually hold?:confused:
     

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