Accis

Hi.

Are there anyone who actually earned a degree from this school and have used it for upward mobility in the working world?

If so, please post all negative/positive replies.

Thanks

 

Can't speak to that directly, but I *can* tell you that there are many, many options that are much better for less money and don't carry the stench associated with ACCIS' reputation.

This school, up until the very day it received DETC accreditation (which, in itself, was issued in violation of DETC's own written guidelines) proudly advertised accreditation from a completely fraudulent accreditor. When asked about this, ACCIS' president stated that the decision to intentionally defraud prospective students was a "marketing decision"

Then, the school changed its name in order to try and get away from its shady past.

If the school was willing to do this up to the moment they got accredited, what would reasonably make anyone think that they're not just as shady now -- albeit with some semblence of credibility from an accreditor who violated its own policies to grant accreditation?

 

ACCIS is a school moving in the right direction.

Chip, you totally forgot to refer the original poster to TUI or UI&U.

Just like the aforementioned schools, ACCIS is a properly accredited DL institution. The only difference is that, unlike TUI and UI&U, ACCIS is in good standing with their recognized accreditor.

Your DETC bashing is getting old. If you criticized the RA schools I just mentioned, then at least you would be consistent. Hmmm. Hypocrisy??

 

We don't know Mr. or Ms. Learn's intention for using his or her degree.

If it is anything in the academic world -- teaching, or going on for a higher degree -- then Chip's warnings have validity. The evidence is clear from the research I did in 2000 and presented to the national registrars convention that year, that DETC-accredited schools that have NOT gone through the ACE evaluation process have a vastly lower acceptance level than regionally accredited.

Roughly 20% of regionally-accredited schools regularly accept DETC degrees, another 20% sometimes, and the remainder don't. Needless to say, 100% of RA schools accept RA degrees.

If ACCIS elected to go through the ACE process, that would be admirable, and would increase their acceptance.

 

I disagree. I believe that things have changed since your presentation. DETC is probably viewed in a more favorable light than is was before. Quite a few RA schools have even changed their position towards DETC accreditation.

But even if I am wrong, DETC acceptance isn't really the issue here. In spite of their accreditation success, ACCIS has been regulary bashed. On the other hand, RA schools with suspect histories are given free passes by members of the RA only crowd. And this, Mr. Bear, is not fair or just.

I disagree here as well. RA status in no way guarantees academic acceptance. For example, RA business schools that possess the highly over-rated AACSB accreditation, may not recognize RA-only credentials. Further, law schools with RA and ABA approval, will never recognize transfer credits from RA-only law schools.

Law school admissionss may even be one area where NA degree holders could actually have an advantage. Many (if not most) ABA approved law schools will admit those with NA undergraduate degrees. In fact, DETC 'course work' degree holders would probably fair better than RA 'test-out' degree holders in the law school admissions process.

Here we agree. I have always felt that, until legislation is passed(if ever), DETC schools should submit all of their courses for ACE CREDIT review. Those who fail to do so are doing their student bodies a great disservice. I have written letter after letter, to no avail.

There is reason for DETC schools and students to remain hopeful. The McKeon proposals, if passed, will forever put an end to the NA discrimination engaged in, and sanctioned by, elite RA academia. If the proposals fail, however, DETC schools will no longer have an excuse to avoid the ACE process.

 

Chip's long standing bent with ACCIS is not specifically because it is DETC accredited. Chip has a legitimate complaint that, immediately prior to being awarded DETC accreditation, ACCIS was claiming bogus accreditation from one of the often seen worthless "accreditors".

I have the fullest of faith in the DETC accreditation processes, policies, and guidelines...but I must say that this particular ACCIS concern of Chip's did leave a less than warm and fuzzy feeling in one's stomach at the time. I have reviewed their programs and they seem sound. But their pre DETC accreditation claims are, understandably, what stick in Chip’s craw. The standard comments regarding utility towards intended use is a reasonable point for consideration.

 

I have to agree that ACCIS has had some serious issues that DETC ignored and they accredited ACCIS in spite of the fact they did not meet their own written criteria. It put DETC in a very bad light at the time.

I am not sure what fuels Bush04's anti-RA stance. If I remember correctly, Bush04 is the gentleman who got a DETC AA degree before going on to a RA school and then being admitted to law school. Certainly DETC accreditation is better than none, but not nearly as useful as RA. When is a DETC accredited degree acceptable when an RA one isn't? Answer:never.

 

Re: ACCIS is a school moving in the right direction.

Perhaps Chip didn't mention those schools because wanttolearn wanted opinions on ACCIS. He/she requested "negative/positive replies" about ACCIS, not about irrelevant schools that happen to interest you.

Here's some questions for you, Mr. "Bush04":

1. Do you believe that it's ethical to claim accreditation by a phony accreditor? If so, why?

2. If not, do you think that explaining the choice to do so as a "marketing decision" justifies it?

3. If the management of a school made false and misleading marketing claims in the past, do you think that history has relevance when considering the credibility of marketing claims that are being made in the present?

Frankly, I have no personal knowledge that ACCIS ever did these things. But assuming that what Chip says is true, it does sound rather damning. I might still decide to enroll in ACCIS despite this information, if I believed that it offered a good program and that its history wouldn't detract from the utility of its degrees, but I would certainly want to consider this information when making my decision.

 

John Bear
Needless to say, 100% of RA schools accept RA degrees.

Mr. or Ms. 04:
I disagree.

John Bear
I was not appropriate precise in my choice of words. 100% of RA schools will accept an RA degree as meeting their general degree requirement. They may well have additional requirements regarding courses, majors, grades, and so forth. And, from the year 2000 research, 80% of RA schools do NOT routinely accept DETC degrees that have not been evaluated by ACE.

Mr. or Ms. 04:
I believe that things have changed since your presentation.

John Bear:
My sense of things from going many sessions at the subsequent registrars' national conventions is that they haven't. But I would welcome more research. (I spent more than $3,000 out of pocket on the 2000 research and am disinclined to do it again, but I wish someone would.)

Since it was my view that the DETC's own survey of their acceptance, published in 2001, was even more negative than my findings, one might expect them to say more if they had more positive evidence.

My brief comments on their own report was reported in this forum. I'd be glad to fax my longer commentary to anyone who wishes. ([email protected])

Brief comments: http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=61495&highlight=detc+survey#post61495

 

I am not anti-RA at all. I think that all of the recognized institutional accreditors do a pretty good job. However, I feel that my DETC experiences better prepared me for traditional law school.

Well, for the most part, you are right. However, the law school admissions scenario I mentioned above could be one exception. For example, all things being equal on the LSAT front, DETC course work would probably be viewed more favorably than RA test out? This is especially true if the RA degree was lacking on convertible credit hours.

 

Knowing this, why do so many DETC schools avoid the ACE process? I don't get it? According the ACE, it costs the school about $1,000 per course. This seems pretty reasonable; especially in light of the utility gained.

 

Mr. o4:
Knowing this, why do so many DETC schools avoid the ACE process? I don't get it? According the ACE, it costs the school about $1,000 per course. This seems pretty reasonable; especially in light of the utility gained.

John Bear:
I have wondererd the same thing often, at the same time I wonder why more of the unaccredited schools doing go through the $250 Oregon "take me off your list" process.

About ten years ago, I shepherded one school's courses through the ACE process: the Open College in the UK, which I believe was the first non-US institution to gain DETC accreditation. ACE was an intelligent, sensible, straightforward process.

The only answers that come to mind are:
(a) they don't know about it [unlikely]
(b) they don't appreciate the value it could have for them, or
(c) they believe they would be unlikely to be successful.

As far as the latter goes, perhaps they have tried. I suspect neither the school nor the ACE would publicize failed attempts.

 

At one point, I asked CSU if they would ever submit their courses to ACE. In doing so, I pointed to the increased acceptance and utility successful recommendations would bring. I argued that this would benefit current students, and maybe attract more students.

CSU said they would not utilize ACE CREDIT. They also disagreed with me by arguing that ACE reviews would not increase acceptance within the RA community. I responded by pointing to the CLEP exam process. CSU agreed that CLEP exams are widely accepted by RA schools. Therefore, I reminded them that CLEP exams are ACE recommended.

The ACE issue has been my biggest criticism of DETC. While I firmly believe that DETC member schools do a great job educating their students, I often get the impression that some treat their students more like customers. These schools would benefit more by making their students feel like they are part of something important.

Ironically, some of the DETC schools regularly praised on this site do not participate in the ACE CREDIT process. On the other hand, a couple of the DETC schools regularly criticized do participate. I never understood this, so I challenged the much loved (at least here) President of a DETC school on this issue. I received the expected "why should we?" response.

So, overall, I am a big DETC supporter. However, I feel that many member schools are failing to take measures necessary to increase levels of acceptance. They could be doing many things to ensure student success, and increase their appearance of legitimacy. Revised websites and catalogs, complete faculty lists, student and alumni email systems, and ACE recommendations are just a few examples of what should be done.

 

Also, Dr. Bear, have you heard anything with regards to DETC and Title IV eligibility? Do you think full financial aid eligibility would increase DETC acceptance?

I think that if all DETC schools 1) submit all of their courses to the ACE CREDIT 2) begin accrediting academic doctorates, and 3) become Title IV eligible, their acceptance levels will drastically increase.

 

o4:
I think that if all DETC schools 1) submit all of their courses to the ACE CREDIT 2) begin accrediting academic doctorates, and 3) become Title IV eligible, their acceptance levels will drastically increase.

John:
I totally agree.

I gather things in Washington are a bit more murky and arcane than usual, with regard to higher education. The higher education act is traditionally totally "reauthorized" (rewritten) every five years. This gives every every politician, lobbyist, and special interest group in the galaxy on every side of every issue the opportunity to press their causes. The verbiage (and the dollars) cascade in abundance. The deadline for reauthorization was actually in 2003, but when no one could agree on anything (it seemed), an automatic one-year extension kicked in. Congress must do this at the next session, revisiting every aspect of higher education.

Here's what seems to be an impartial and very recent summary of the situation:
http://www.policyalmanac.org/education/archive/crs_higher_education.shtml

 

I disagree. I believe that things have changed since your presentation. DETC is probably viewed in a more favorable light than is was before. Quite a few RA schools have even changed their position towards DETC accreditation.

If you have a shred of evidence to support your claim, please bring it on. But my guess is, judging by your wording, you have no evidence at all, you just either *wish* it were true or are conjecturing without fact. In the absence of factual evidence to dispute John's findings (as well as recent reports from conferences and places where registrars and others making these decisions congregate), anything else is just a guess... and it isn't wise to base major career decisions on a guess.



But even if I am wrong, DETC acceptance isn't really the issue here. In spite of their accreditation success, ACCIS has been regulary bashed.


And with good reason. I won't restate what I said above, but I will say that, as a member of Lloyd Clayton's family of unwondeful schools, ACCIS comes from the same shady base as all of the rest. I find it somewhat interesting that ACCIS goes a long way to avoid mentioning Clayton's ownership in their materials. Most likely, this is because they (correctly) realize the guy is a sleazebag, and mentioning him doesn't help market their school.


On the other hand, RA schools with suspect histories are given free passes by members of the RA only crowd.


Actually, this isn't the case at all. There are several RAs that have been the subject of significant criticism here, including one or two RA schools that we consider as having such a high degree of complaints that we have repeatedly refused to accept advertising from them.

Referring specifically to Union, if you have evidence, bring it on. If you have unsupported conjecture, nevermind.


There is reason for DETC schools and students to remain hopeful. The McKeon proposals, if passed, will forever put an end to the NA discrimination engaged in, and sanctioned by, elite RA academia.

That would be a tragedy. While I believe there are a number of fine, academically rigorous DETC programs, there are most definitely a number of really shoddy, second-rate ones with outdated curricula, poor oversight, and other serious problems. While among the six regionals there may be a few bad apples, the number of bad apples in the DETC pool is much larger, judging from the research and comments that many have made here. And this stands to reason; each of the regionals puts a significant number of RA schools on warning, probation, or takes the action of revoking accreditation. Every time they meet, the regionals publish a list of these actions. I've never seen any list of any sort of disciplinary actions or accreditation revocations by DETC. Why? Well, I don't know, but it certainly seems as though DETC is more interested in the fees generated by accreditation than in maintaining the rigorous standards that its guidelines call for.

 

So did anyone answer the original post?

 

First, I would like to thank everyone for sharing their opinions BUT I was trully looking for people who had actually earned a degree from ACCIS and have used it for upward mobility.

To answer the general question is that I am a male living in the Washington, DC area who have three years of college credit from a RA institution. There are so many advertisements from collegiate sources about the 'success' of this school's programs that I really wanted to 'converse' with one of these students.

I will go back to college soon but now I am taking the 'CLEP' route, this forum has contain vast amounts of information leading me to complete a degree in IT very soon.

 

Doubt it!

[/QUOTE] Rich: That would be a tragedy. While I believe there are a number of fine, academically rigorous DETC programs, there are most definitely a number of really shoddy, second-rate ones with outdated curricula, poor oversight, and other serious problems. While among the six regionals there may be a few bad apples, the number of bad apples in the DETC pool is much larger .......... [/B][/QUOTE]

I disagree. I can think of several RA schools in my area alone that currently offer shoddy, out of date, second-rate programs taught by underqualified and overpaid faculty. I can think of other RA schools that allow unqualified faculty members to take sebaticals, and then, make students pay for it by increasing tuition. There are even more RA schools that purposely recruit and admit academically unfit athletes and URMs for all the wrong reasons, and then allow these mental midgets to slide through with passing grades.

 

In response to the original question...

In response to the original question...

I am currently attending ACCIS (have been there for appx 1 year).

In the past I have attended Thomas Edison State College and Strayer University, along with a local community college.

I can tell you first hand that ACCIS has a great program. Not only is the course work demanding, but the staff has been very responsive to inquiries and any needed student assistance - many times much more helpful and quick to respond than the RA schools I've attended.

There are many on this forum that will never give kudos where kudos is due - no matter what - for whatever reason. They harbor some kind of mystical force which allows no acknowledgment unless you fly the RA flag.

ACCIS is accepted at the school I would most likely do my Masters - University of Phoenix Online - an RA flag flying school.

Weigh what you need/want out of your degree. For me, ACCIS is a perfect fit. I do not listen to other people bash the school for things that happened years ago...granted, I'm not proud of their prior items of mention, but I am satisfied that they are where they need to be for now, and into the future.

You can look at many Ivy league (RA) schools too, and find many "questionable" practices, scandals, and probably illegal and/or discriminatory activities.

In any case - ACCIS is a great program - if you have questions - let me know. I will give you a non-bias/prejudicial opinion.

Thanks!