DETC Doctorate: How Soon?

Does anyone have a guess or inside information (Mary?) about how soon DETC might do a pilot project doctoral degree accreditation? I would imagine any school or schools initially approved will be flooded with applicants.

 

Rob --

With some DETC-accredited schools (University of South Africa, Leicester, etc.) already offering doctorates, I'd imagine it'll be pretty close to instantaneous. As far as U.S.-model doctorates go, that couldn't come a moment too soon as far as I'm concerned; I regularly get emails from folks who don't really think a Commonwealth research doctorate is for them, but want to do a distance learning doctorate anyway. Since Touro is facing an accreditation issue and Northcentral is way too expensive for most folks who ask me about such things, DETC doctorates could fill the gap. I'm sure many DETC school administrators know (a) that the niche exists and (b) that there's a good chance the DETC will be accrediting doctorates soon, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are already folks drafting curriculum requirements.


Cheers,

 

I think Mary has offered her opinion on this already.

 

Hi Rich - Yes, Mary has, but will do so again since I think there are still misconceptions.

I do not think anything about it will be instantaneous. There are many details that need to be worked out and while I have no way of knowing, my best guess is that the pilot will involve US based schools not international schools.

When we know, it will be published and then everyone will know. Right now all we know for sure is that the commissioners will vote on the standards in January.

Mary A

 

One has to know his limitations--I struggle with this. But when it comes to DETC, I'd carry Mary's luggage anywhere.

 

Thanks Rich - If I knew my own limitations I probably would have left this business a long time ago!

Mary A

 

You know....

I know I will get a lot of flack for saying this, but I hope that a DETC Doctorate NEVER Exists. Not because of the DL aspect, but rather because of the NA vs. RA. I am against the concept of NA Schools, and I think that they are a hindrance to students who don't know better that attend them. RA is the highest form of accreditation, thus I think that Masters and Doctorates should only come from RA schools. I'm partially OK with Baccalaureate degrees, but the graduate level needs the highest level of commitment, and accreditation that I do not think can be validated by NA status.

Let the hate messages begin.

 

Nobody needs to be a hater.

There are some programs in DETC world that are great. For example, AMU offers a lot of outstanding graduate degrees and certificates that are not found anywhere else in the DL world. Then again, this may not be a great example since it in the midst of its RA certification.

BTW - Are you a UM or UMUC alum?

 

University College, a fine school too might I add. Being a marine, I went to UMUC in Asia, then I finished up in VA while stationed at Quantico. I took 7 classes at UMCP the last 2 semesters as well, and the professors I had taught at both schools.

After the Marines I worked for UMUC for two years in their military outreach program in VA/DC. I liked the school a lot and It is basically a "grown up" version of UMCP. It has a beautiful campus (in college park), a world class online program, and it has Associate, Bachelors, Masters, and Doctoral Degrees. I love the school.

By the way, the correct terminology for a U of M is the 4 letter description. There are five schools you see:

University of MD, University College: UMUC
University of MD, College Park: UMCP
University of MD, Baltimore County: UMBC
University of MD, At Baltimore: UMAB
University of MD, Eastern Shore: UMES

Oh, and for all you terp fans, UMCP is not the "Real" school. UMAB was the original UM school, and that is why it is the only one, who's diploma says simply "University of Maryland" with no campus distinction.

Just a little UM info and history for you.

By the way, the DM is now online!

http://www.umuc.edu/grad/dm/

 

To the best of my knowledge, the Department and Education and CHEA don't claim that RA is the highest form of accreditation. I don't think even the regional accreditors make this claim.

Is RA higher than ABA or AMA?

 

According to these folks it is:

http://www.chea.org/Commentary/core-values.cfm#foundation

http://www.jonesinternational.edu/studentLife/faqs/accreditation.php

http://iwuonline.com/faq.html

http://www.universities.com/Distance_Learning/University_of_West_Alabama.html

http://thedistancelearningexpo.com/

http://www.coursemate.com/E-Learning%20Links.html

http://www.checkouteducation.com/Distance_Learning/University_of_Florida.html

http://techrepublic.com.com/5102-6228-1049266.html


Additionally, when I spoke with the MSA accreditors for UMUC in 2003, they made it very clear the regional accreditation was the highest. Also, most businesses will now make sure to state the degree of the applicant must be "regionally" accredited" rather than "accredited," and if one loks at the military websites, one needs an RA degree now to be commisioned.

Whether it is because of reputation, myth, or percieved notions about RA vs NA, I will always go with the former. I beleive in RA, and that is my opinion. That is why I really would frown upon a DETC doctorate. That's my opinion, take it as it is.

 

Sorry but I still couldn't find anything on the CHEA link you provided that said RA was the highest form of accreditation.

If your argument is that RA is the most recognized form of accreditation I would agree. But highest, no.

For RA schools to claim their accreditation is the highest is no surprise. But I've seen the regionals sign off on many distance education Masters programs that would never meet DETC standards.

By the way, I think your choice of Northcentral University is a good one. NCU administration has a long history in distance education, something that most regionals can't claim.

 

I did find the CHEA article interesting in that the regionals seem to be getting away from what Dr. Eaton defines as their core values.

“The Foundation: Core Academic Values of Regional Accreditation

Six core academic values sustain regional accreditation. They are the valuing of:
· Institutional autonomy;
· Collegiality and shared governance;
· The intellectual and academic authority of faculty;
· The degree (whether associate, baccalaureate, professional, master's, or doctorate);
· General education; and
· Site-based education and a community of learning.”

With respect to institutional autonomy, many regional schools are owned by publically held corporations where collegiality and shared govenance may exist on paper but not in practice.

The authority of faculty? How many tenured faculty members work at the University of Phoenix or Jones International?.

Site-based education? No comment necessary.

With respect to distance education it looks like the regionals are moving closer to DETC standards which concentrate more on student learning outcomes than "core values."

 

Hmmm. Regional accreditation the "highest." I dunno.

Isn't RA the oldest? And it's certainly the most common and widely-used. That, I think, might make it appear to be the "highest;" but whenever one hears those in-the-know make the argument against fake accreditors -- you know... the ones created by diploma mill operators -- they almost invariably point to USDoE/CHEA-approval as the salient ingredient that makes an accreditor valid.

Regional accreditors are but one kind of USDoE/CHEA-approved accreditors. To call regional accreditors "higher" suggests that USDoE/CHEA sanctions varying degrees of accreditation. Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose.

Obviously, from accreditor to accreditor there are philosophical and methodological differences -- and, of course, smart and well-meaning people may argue about which are marginally better or worse. But clearly they all meet or exceed certain USDoE/CHEA minimums -- said minimums (not that which exceeds them, but merely the minimums) being more than adequate to ensure that accredited schools all offer quality educations.

The issue is commonnes and acceptablilty... and maybe a bit of tradition mixed in there, too. You can't throw a rock and not hit an RA college or university. All other institutions accredited by USDoE/CHEA-approved agencies are not just less common, but somewhat less common. That's precisely the sort of thing that could easily give the illusion that RA is "higher."

 

This topic has been debated earlier, with several members referring to RA as the "gold standard" (which would indicate ranking, IMHO), and have also used words in ranking accreditation as "highest", "lowest", and "ranking". Here's an example:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11706&highlight=gold+standard

So, I think there might be a concensus among some on this board that RA is the highest ranked. Now, I don't think that necessarily means the "highest quality" -- such a description would necessarily have to be explicitly defined. However, I do think you could rate RA as "highest" in terms of utility of the degree.

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

"Oh, and for all you terp fans, UMCP is not the "Real" school. UMAB was the original UM school, and that is why it is the only one, who's diploma says simply "University of Maryland" with no campus distinction."

No offense but you are very mistaken. While it is true that the Medical School in Baltimore is older than College Park, my boss got an undergrad AND MBA from the University of Maryland's Top Ranked Robert H Smith School of Business (What you refer to as UMCP). His degrees say simply "University of Maryland" as do the degrees of all graduates of what you refer to as "UMCP".

What you refer to as "UMCP", is the only undergraduate and graduate university in the system that may refer to itself simply as the University of Maryland. On the other hand UMAB may as well, but only because their programs are different, and further because UMCP does not house Law or Medical School. However no other school (UMUC, UMES, UMBC, BSU etc) in the system may do this.

UMAB, which has always been a graduate school in the Health Sciences and Law only, is primarily the Medical and Law school arm of the public system, sort of like UCSF is to UC Berkeley. They offer degrees UMD does not. In other words, their degrees do not conflict with UMCP, therefore are permitted to be the only other degree granting institution in the system that uses the phrase "UMd." on their degrees -- but only for Law and Medicine which are both top ranked schools.

UMUC on the other hand is a completely separate university from either. Technically it does not have a campus, but a building located not in College Park, but in nearby Adelphi. Also, UMBC, a fine school, is located in Baltimore County as well, but is a completely separate University from UMAB, just to clarify.

From "UMCP"'s website

http://www.urhome.umd.edu/newsdesk/media/identityguide.pdf

 

Another point. You say you earned an undergraduate from the University of Maryland, but the only school that offers undergraduate degrees from the "University of Maryland" is what you refer to as "UMCP". Not UMAB, not UMBC, not UMUC -- UMCP.

Since you actually went to UMUC, you should proudly state so in your tagline. It is a fine school in its own right with fine faculty -- many of whom got their PhD's from UMCP.

 

It is interesting to note that technically their building is within College Park postal jurisdiction, but they use the Adelphi address to keep from stepping on CP's toes. From this side of the nation it is all rather amusing. For most part anyone over here would call all of it University of Maryland.

 

IMO "regional accreditation" is written into many policies because the author is attempting to differentiate between recognized accreditation and false accreditation ("regional" being something of a generic) without really understanding the topic as defined by the US DOE. I would hope that anyone who is in the position to write policy clearly understands that the US DOE recognizes NA, RA, professional accreditors, and NY State without placing them on a scale.

 

And that would be about as accurate as calliing the Univeristy of North Carolina at Pembroke UNC.