NCU PHD or EBS DBA or ??

Greetings,

I am looking for a doctoral degree by DL in business (management / strategy).

Why?
1. I enjoy learning.
2. I would like to teach - adjunct/online faculty while working would be most likely.
3. I am interested with strategic consulting for small businesses in the community (NW Washington State).

What I need:
1. Very little or zero residency (due to work and family obligations).
2. Federal financial aid eligible.

Which program would you recommend and why? Any cost / rigor / flexibility / teaching opportunity comments would be especially appreciated.

Thank you.

P.S. My academic background: BA Seattle University (AACSB on campus 1996); MBA CSU-DH (online, expected 2005).

 

Capella U.

I am quite happy with my program at Capella U. in Organization and Management. There are different specializations you can choose from (HRM, Leadership, IT Management), or you can take the General track, which offers more flexibility in terms of focus.

My classes so far have been challenging and rigorous, and I've been allowed to focus my research requirements for each class on topics that will be helpful later for my dissertation.

The residency requirements are manageable. You are required to do 3 one-week residencies during the program; these are held at different times and different locations in the U.S. throughout the year. Given that your program will take 3-6 years to complete, it's conceivable to only have to do one residency a year. At the minimum, you would have six months between each one; they must be completed before the dissertation process.

Capella is expensive, like most DL Ph.D. programs in the US, but federal financial aid is available.

Hope this is helpful. I'll be glad to answer any specific questions you might have.

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

I would pick Grenoble.

You are eligable for financial aid
AACSB accredited
Residency 1 week to France, on the 6 months to New Orleans for a weekend.
Very respected and active faculty
3 years
9K per yeara for 3 years

A FT professor at the school I want to get on FT's daughter went to Grenoble for her doctorate.

I can't say enough at this point. It is MUCh more difficult than I thought, but it is worth it thus far.

 

Of the two you mentioned I would choose NCU. They seem to be up and coming plus they're building a campus on 45 acres of land they recently acquired in arizona.

They're also far less expensive than most other for-profits (Walden, Capella, Argosy)

 

Aston University (UK) (PhD or DBA)
Manchester University (UK) DBA
Henley Management College (UK) DBA
University of Maryland-Univ. College (DBA)
Indiana State University (PhD Technology Management)
Case Western Reserve University (EDM - Executive Doctor of Management)

Aston, Henley and Manchester are three of the top biz programs in the world, would rank in or near the top 50 here were they scooped up out of England and deposited in the U.S.--for proof, see the world rankings of business schools listed online by The Economist magazine. Also, Aston--like Grenoble mentioned by another poster--is AACSB accredited. The UMUC degree isn't accredited at the highest levels, but is a legit part of the U of Maryland system, shouldn't look ugly on a CV. Indiana State offers a somewhat peripherally-related PhD that emphasizes technology, but could be focused in such a manner to likely suit your needs, as they have 5 different emphases in the program. Case Western is an outstanding school, the Weatherhead School of Management is very well-respected, although the DM (or, more accurately, EDM) that they offer requires some fairly intensive residencies in addition to distance studies--I think along the lines of 6 weekends per semester--and in any event, it's not cheap, and the students accepted typically have extensive industry experience (10 years +).

Out of curiosity, why the doctorate? If you're just looking to consult and teach PT, your MBA--or even 18 grad biz credit hours of it--should be sufficient to teach at the levels you described. Now, if your aspirations are to eventually transition into FT teaching, to shoot for a tenure-eligible position or the like, then the Doctorate is perfect, otherwise, perhaps too much time, money & effort for the return.

 

NCU continues to make very positive strides. They are a participant in the federal DL project and are now able to offer financial aid. The reasons that I picked NCU were money, you can pay by course rather than some of the methods others use, and class compliment for my concentration. NCU makes changes as they digest student and regulatory input. The single biggest comment I can make is that you are responsible for active learning and participation. I have not found any US based schools that offer the same flexibility as NCU.

My short list included several of the schools mentioned. I also recently noticed that Colorado Technical University offers a Doc in CompSci without a dissertation. I don't have any information but it may also be an option.

Nova Southeastern University has some good offerings.

There a re some good masters available including the Harvard ALM-IT. They recently added another tract in technology but the program does require some residency.

Good luck...

 

I vote EBS DBA

I have a PhD from Capella. The experience was great--and although the overall benefit is learning to write academically, and to research--I found the coursework to be a re-hash of MBA subjects, and IT courses from a general management perspective. It was "lightweight" stuff.

I am now doing the EBS DBA. I find the coursework to be rigorous, interesting, and just what I need at this point in my career. (I should let you know I have an EBA MBA, so am already familiar with the format.)

The key question for you to answer is "Can I handle EBS?" It is a tough tough lonely business--not for the timid.

 

Re: I vote EBS DBA

Hi Jim,

I thought I'd pipe in here and let you (and everyone else) know that they've changed the course content in the School of Business at Capella. Whereas the MBA and Ph.D. courses used to be the same for some (IOW, both MBA and Ph.D. students were in the same course), this has been revamped, starting Summer 04 (i.e., now). The Ph.D. courses are now doctoral seminars, and are not open to MBA students at all. I'm finding them quite challenging, and certainly at a more theoretical and scholarly level than the MBA classes I took at an AACSB b-n-m school. I'm sorry you didn't get to experience that, but I'm pleased that the quality and rigor at Capella is continually improving and increasing.

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

Thanks for the update...

Don't get me wrong--my Capella experience was memorable--I learned a lot, just didn't get that much out of the coursework--except for the research courses....

 

If you want to teach as an adjunct or online. I would say that NCU would satisfy your needs. I have met few people that work as adjuncts with a PhD from NCU and seem to be doing fine. If you are looking for a full time tenure track position at a AACSB accredited University, the EBS DBA would be a better asset given its accreditation. However, this depends on your field, if you are in fields of high demand like accounting, you probably can still stand a good chance if you have a CPA license and experience.

 

I want a doctorate for self fulfillment. I don't think it will hurt my crediblity to teach/consult. I think I can at least recoup the $25 -$30k cost.

Does anyone know if Aston has residence requirements?

My program needs to be virtually residency-free.

Thanks.

 

Re: Re: NCU PHD or EBS DBA or ??

I notice that EBS has the equivalent of RA in the US, which is what NCU has. Are you saying that EBS has a superior reputation in the US with the academic community? If I had the chance to get into a full-time, tenure track position with my local AACSB university I would be elated. I just figure I don’t have a shot without a strong AACSB doctorate. I just don’t find the AACSB doctorates to be flexible enough with residencies for me.

 

Re: Re: Re: NCU PHD or EBS DBA or ??

In light of much of the discussion of the advantage of an AACSB doctorate, I want to share a discussion I had with my research mentors in an AACSB Ph.D. program in Texas a year ago. Please, keep in mind that this is anecdotal, and I certainly wouldn't claim that this is a universal truth; however, I'm sure these two profs are not the only ones that would feel this way.

When I was still in Texas, I was accepted into an AACSB doc program in Organization and Management Studies. Before enrolling, however, I spent a year taking MBA classes in preparation, and worked very closely with two well-respected full professors at the school (who focus on HR and strategic management). However, due to a lot of reasons, my husband and I decided to move back overseas to the Middle East. At this point, I withdrew from the Ph.D. slot in Texas, and began to search for an appropriate DL Ph.D. program.

I was aware of AACSB accreditation and its importance, so tried to find programs with this. Of course, I couldn't find any in the U.S., but did find Aston's program, and with its OB research, it looked perfect.

I brought this up with my two profs, and asked them about future tenured teaching possibilities with this degree, since it is AASCB. They said that if they were on the hiring committee, they would discard my application immediately. I was quite shocked, and asked them why. They said that just because a business school is AASCB is not enough. The fact that it would be a DL degree would mean that much of what they look for in a faculty member, such as teaching and research assistantship experience, developmental awareness and experience in the traditional Ph.D. environment, networking, etc., would be absent. They said that if such a DL degree came from somewhere like INSEAD or Oxford, that it probably wouldn't be thrown away. However, a lesser known 'overseas' degree (remember, this is a common American myopic viewpoint, despite rankings in the Economist), particularly earned through mainly research, without the other trappings of the 'normal U.S. -- Ph.D. model', would not be considered an indication of a strong candidate, even if it is AACSB.

Again, these profs' views can't be considered to be representative of all U.S.-based tenure-track hiring committees; indeed, let's hope that more such committees will hold more enlightened views towards non-U.S. degrees than at this school. However, my gut tells me that this viewpoint is probably not that uncommon. I just wanted to bring this up, as it's something to consider regarding the AASCB issue. This is one reason why I chose learning format over accreditation; Capella is RA, so that's fine, but I prefer the U.S.-structured format of courses/comps/dissertation than the U.K.-based research model, and so gave up the AASCB accreditation for a learning format through which I thought I would more greatly benefit.

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

I do not believe the Aston DBA or PhD requires residency.

However, in light of what the other poster Ms Brooks has said, I would carefuly investigate whether a doctorate via distance from an overseas school would be effective in the U.S. before you expend all your free time and cut into the lion's share of your career for the next four years.

If you do intend to teach at the university level, even online or adjunct, it would benefit you to take the steps Ms Brooks has taken and ask some faculty members in U.S. schools what they think. I'm sure that the viewpoint she observed isn't universal, but judging by the nature of committees, it need not be to effectively rule you out of many positions--it only takes one ignorant yet determined member of a committee to torpedo a candidate. And doesn't it seem that the most ignorant and jingoistic among us also seem to the most stubborn--the two go hand-in-hand.

Astonishing that Aston, Manchester and Henley are not commonly known and highly regarded in U.S. For example, in the world rankings of business schools Henley is perched squarely between Berkeley and MIT! Aston ahead of Georgetown, UT-Austin, USC, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Carnegie Mellon! Manchester beats out Purdue, Rice, Case Western, Oxford and Cambridge! And yet, U.S. B-school faculty--at least two in Texas--choose to remain ignorant of these fine schools, or at least ignorant of their educational value, distance or otherwise. Aston, for example, is ranked among the very top eschelon of research universities in the world--there may not be 5 schools in the U.S. that best it in that important category.

Ah, time will change these things, as those of the old school move on to a much needed retirement. I have 9 years of traditional on-campus college under my belt, I spent the better part of my twenties in the ivory towers, went to a top tier law school. And yet, I've found in my brief encounter with online education (UMass MBA program) that I'm learning much more, internalizing the material better than I did sitting in any classroom. Why? Online classroom discussion forums give you more time to reflect than the classroom; when you post, you've generally thought out your comments better than blurts in the classroom. You can read and reread posts of the professor and fellow students until you understand them and they can do likewise with yours--iron sharpening iron. You have to keep up with the reading and discussion forums, you can't procrastinate (at least under the UMass model). I've found it a highly effective means of learning, simply outstanding.

And for that matter, this notion that one need have all that face time and the traditional "PhD campus experience" to be an effective professor is becoming perfect sophistry in light of the trend towards online at the grad and undergrad levels. For goodness sakes, Stanford, Michigan, Purdue, Duke, Harvard, U of London, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, NYU and Columbia all offer DL graduate degrees, several of them PhDs! Couldn't it be said that the traditional PhD experience is beginning to become anything but traditional, and that students with DL graduate degrees should be favored over more traditional candidates because they have some experience with the new brand of learning?

 

In my case, I am not in academia (though will soon teach on-line). I am a president of a product development organization within Panasonic. My Capella doctorate has served me well in my career. Since education is a company benefit--I will continue to study--and will eventually obtain a second doctorate from Heriot-Watt.

Why? I enjoy it, and when I get toward the end of a long, moderately successful career in business--I will eventually find a way to squirm my way into academia and perhaps consulting somehow.

I got to where I am non-traditionally. I figure I can do whatever I want if I put my mind to it.

Oh and BTW--I never met a traditional academic I felt I couldn't lick if it came down to it...!

 

FYI, Aston requires as much as three weeks per year of residence while in the dissertation phase. I think it is a nice program if you live locally, unless you don't mind spending your next 6-7 years holidays in England. I do. Everything else looks great, including the price.

Greetings

 

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Oh and BTW--I never met a traditional academic I felt I couldn't lick if it came down to it...!
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DRMarion:

I'll bet you'd eat the traditional academic for lunch! I've been on both sides of it, in and out of the ivory towers. Spent my younger days being "put in my place" by traditional academics at dinner party conversation, but I now have amassed a bit of education and gained a bit of experience in life--and a few battle scars--and I can see through the whole facade: they don't know anything more of value than us, sometimes academics and experts are the last to see through to the truth--ask Copernicus.

When they try to squelch me now, I simply say: "Have you ever produced anything, sold anything, contributed to the economy, met a quota with a team of sales reps as I did when a sales manager; have you ever really DONE anything"--causes a real hitch in their rhetorical step, takes them up short. I believe those like yourself who've been on the outside and seen what it's like in industry would make the very best academics. I know of a business department head at a small college who received his PhD from Walden, so it's possible to get there from here, just takes more intestinal fortitude--which you apparently have in abundance.

Best to you!

 

Re: Re: Re: NCU PHD or EBS DBA or ??

The perception of academics about schools like UoP, NCU, Capella is not exactly high reputation. However, there are lot of people teaching at reputable places with these type of degrees. I think the more the experience as a professor, the less people will care where the PhD comes from. I have attended classes given by PhDs from NCU and people would care less where the degree was earned since the instructor was excellent. EBS can open more doors for you, but I don't know if the time and money would worth the effort. I think that you can teach part time with your master's while you earn a PhD and take it from there. The teaching business is about getting the right degree at the right time, if NCU is all you can afford and you want to teach, you will find your way as many people have done it with degrees from less reputable places.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: NCU PHD or EBS DBA or ??

I have been told the same thing, however, a PhD would open you doors for post-doc positions. A good way to gain this type of experience is to get a post-doc position at a better university. Post-docs positions are normally paid and will help you to cover all these points that are missing because of the DL PhD.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NCU PHD or EBS DBA or ??

RFValve,
Securing a postdoc appointment is an excellent idea, and you're right, it would help gain that missing "face time" experience in DL programs.

I wanted to caveat my above post by saying that the two profs (and Ph.D. program) to which I'm referring are at a Carnegie rated research-intensive school, and would probably reflect many attitudes at that category of academia. However, we already have evidence that at tier II, III, and IV schools hiring attitudes are not so, erm, uptight, about DL.

Also, in reference to mrw142's posting, I've noticed in several faculty ads in the Chronicle this year that experience in DL is a plus, although there's a good chance they are referring to teaching in DL, not necessarily studying. However, given the increase in DL even at b-n-m schools in the U.S., I would think that a U.S.-based DL program would be a favorable asset for candidates for those universities that intend to expand their own DL offerings.