DETC Doctorate

http://detc.org/downloads/FINAL%20Policy%20on%20Doctoral%20Degree%20Programs%20-%20June%2020.pdf

Hi all,


I'm not really in touch with the higher education world on a day-to-day basis like some folks. I would like to know if the link above means DETC schools are going to start PHD or some other type of Doctorial program soon? If this is a repeat i'm sorry.

S/

 

Bad Link

http://detc.org/


First link on the the scroller.

s/

 

Hello - DETC is considering accrediting schools that offer doctorates beyond the first professional level they are already approved to accredit. The standards are out for comment and the commissioners will vote in January. Following the vote, assuming it is a positive one, a pilot will be conducted. During that time a few schools will be offering doctorates - no word on which schools or which doctorates. With a successful pilot the Ed Dept would likely approve DETC to accredit schools that offer doctorates. That said, soon is not an adjective I would use for when DETC schools will be offering doctorates.

Mary A

 

As distance learning has evolved from correspondence to highly interactive online and video-based education DETC is also evolving. Not too long ago, the idea of accredited doctorates via DL was brushed off by many as not even worthy of consideration. Accreditation of doctoral programs seems to be a logical direction in DETC's evolution.

Personally, I am all for accreditation models that go beyond the current regional accreditation system. I like the idea of having competition for the regionals (makes them more responsive). I also like to the idea of exploring whether accreditation can be done better than it is under the current system. If this is to work, however, the U.S. Dept. of Ed and CHEA would need to make it clear that when they officialy recognize an accreditor, they would expect that this recorgnition would be honored by the other recognized accreditors as well (no more of this multi-tiered system where Accreditor X does not recognize Accreditor Y's schools).

Still, I wonder where DETC fits into a system where doctoral programs delivered primarily at a distance are currently accredited by the regional agencies. Would there be any reason for, say, Walden or Capella to seek DETC accreditation if they already have accreditation by North Central Association? Will schools with DL programs need to get accredited by both agencies (akin to getting APA accreditation for a school's psych program)? What value would be given to a regionally accredited school that would justify the expense and hassle of going through an additional (DETC) accreditation. What would they gain that they do not have already with regional accreditation?

On the other hand, if DETC is just an "easier" option or alternative to regional accreditation for schools that have DL programs, will DETC accreditation be relegated to the status is inferior accreditation (e.g. if you can't get regionally accredited, you can go with DETC). This type of branding would, utilmately, hurt DETC accreditation.

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino

 

Hi Tony- Thanks for your comments and insights. I want to comment on the issue of whether or not DETC might become an easier alternative. First, the disclosure, I am president of a DETC school and a big supporter of the DETC. I worked on the standards proposed, with a great committee made up of mostly Ph.D.s earned at RA schools. One of our guiding principles was to create standards that would hold up to the scrutiny of those who do not want DETC to enter this arena. I think we did a good job, perhaps going overboard in some cases, but that is, in my opinion, a good thing - better to be too demanding than too lenient.

I also want to comment on why would an RA school consider DETC accreditation - I don't know that they would. I do wonder why a DETC school might consider RA if there are more options available for their students to transfer into doctoral programs and if DL becomes eligble for financial aid. It is going to be interesting to watch.

Best,
Mary A

 

With the already saturated market of PhDs in business, what is the real value of a DETC doctorate? Would a graduate with a PhD from a detc school be able to teach at the University level at a RA institution? Why would someone choose to do a DETC doctorate besides personal satisfaction? I know that DETC doctorates could benefit many countries outside the US where PhDs are still not a dime a dozen but I wonder if this would be of real value for american students.

 

Any legitimate doctorate would benefit those already teaching at the K-12 or community college levels with a masters degree.

 

This is also true for those with administrative positions at K-12, community college and many universities. I have noticed that there appears to be greater concern over where higher ed faculty receive their doctorates than where administrators receive theirs.

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino

 

The value of a DETC Doctorate? Well, I certainly can't speak for all students and their varying needs. However, I will say that for me and my circumstances a DETC Doctorate is ideal. I'm over 50, have an accredited BA from a State University and now working on an MBA and hopefully a PH.D., neither one of which is from an accredited school but they are state approved. I have no intentions of teaching, but perhaps publishing and speaking on subjects of which I have authority (MBA, PH.D or not). Working full time does not afford me the opportunity to physically attend school.

I suppose that distance learning schools will become the norm in the future and throughout the world as education becomes more accessible. Walls only inhibit and limit the numbers of students who simply want to learn, grow and evolve. Yes! We do need standards, measurements, accountability and various other safeguards. Thats a given, just like getting a driver's license, etc.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that doctorates and distance learning should not be two exclusive endeavors....if done appropriately. For me, the sooner DETC advances this concept the better off we will be.

Just my opinion!

 

The weird thing is, people with UNACCREDITED doctorates sometimes manage to enter the academy, at least at the community college level. The explanation usually given is that their other work plus an accredited Masters degree got them the job. Occasionally, a school will state that it examined the candidate's actual PhD work and decided that it was equivalent to what an accredited program would have required.

There really are no absolute rules, I guess.

 

DETC and New Draft Doctorate Policy

Mary A

Thanks for your insights. It was kind of you to share information on DETC plans for the future. I noticed that the draft plan calls for Doctorate applying schools to be at least 2 years accredited with DETC. On one hand, I can see the logic; little or no history of accreditation, no participation in the pilot. Was this one of the standards required or requested by those who have raised concerns? Its actually not a bad idea to get a little accreditation history behind one before one leaps to the next level. On the otherhand, there are legitimate schools out there who have a credible history of offering "real doctorates with dissertations and coursework" who after receiving accreditation might want to be in the pilot. Just a thought.

 

Re: DETC and New Draft Doctorate Policy

And a good one! But there aren't too many of these schools (unaccredited with a history of offering doctorates) that seem to be knocking on DETC's door. SCUPS didn't make it. CCU might. Southwest and Andrew Jackson did. Century didn't get a sniff, as did not the Louisiana schools (like Orion). It would seem DETC would rather pilot the program with school with whom they have a successful relationship. It seems to me those schools would be more likely to succeed, rather than some applicants whose quality seems to vary much more widely. Just a thought.

 

Hi Oscar and Rich:

As I've already indicated, I chaired the committee that worked on the standards. I was not alone in wanting to ensure that pilot participants had a good solid history behind them before launching into delivery of doctoral programs. Candidly, I want the standard to read that a school must have gone through at least one reaccreditation before it can be eligible so that we have a pretty good idea that in addition to getting accredited, the school knows how to stay accredited. That was not a popular idea, and I recognize it comes with lots of administrative issues, but I still think it is important. We have seen, as Rich pointed out, several schools who offer doctorates who could not secure accreditation. I want schools who can do both (offer good doctorates degrees and be accredited in good standing) and my personal bias is that if you have managed to stay in good standing through at least one reaccreditation cycle there is a resonable expectation that you will continue to operate within the standards.

Mary A

 

If DETC is in point proving mode in the trial phase, perhaps even a Union doc is a better bet.

 

Congressional Investigation on Diploma Mills

Does anyone have any feedback or reasonable speculation on where the Congressional Investigation is headed on the issue of Diploma Mills?

 

Re: Congressional Investigation on Diploma Mills

May I respectfully suggest that you start a new thread?

 

Re: Congressional Investigation on Diploma Mills

To a slow, quiet death.

Maybe we'll get a list of accredited schools out of the deal, but that's already provided by CHEA.

 

Originally posted by Oscar
The value of a DETC Doctorate? Well, I certainly can't speak for all students and their varying needs. However, I will say that for me and my circumstances a DETC Doctorate is ideal. I'm over 50, have an accredited BA from a State University and now working on an MBA and hopefully a PH.D., neither one of which is from an accredited school but they are state approved. I have no intentions of teaching, but perhaps publishing and speaking on subjects of which I have authority (MBA, PH.D or not). Working full time does not afford me the opportunity to physically attend school.

There are many authors and others (e.g. television and court "experts" and religious leaders) who have found that their goals have been well served by non-accredited doctoral degrees. Some better known examples are authors Jim Gray, Barbara DeAngellis and Walter Martin. Being able to add "PhD" to the end of one's name adds credibility. Now, whether the person truly has knowledge equivalent to an accredited PhD is another matter entirely.


Originally posted by nosborne48
The weird thing is, people with UNACCREDITED doctorates sometimes manage to enter the academy, at least at the community college level. The explanation usually given is that their other work plus an accredited Masters degree got them the job. Occasionally, a school will state that it examined the candidate's actual PhD work and decided that it was equivalent to what an accredited program would have required. There really are no absolute rules, I guess.

You are right about there being no absolute rules when it comes to hiring at different institutions. In my own experience as a member of hiring boards for several community college personnel (faculty and administrative), we had a number of candidatres with non-accredited doctorates. Some we hired, some we did not. Those who were hired:

--Possessed accredited BA and MA degrees (the positions did not require a doctorate)
--Were paid according to their accredited degrees. Those with doctorates from accredited institutions were given doctoral pay. Those with non-accredited doctorates were not given doctoral pay; they were paid at the masters level.
--In official college literature only their accredited degrees were listed.
--In general practice, those who possesed non-accredited doctorates were not referred to as "Doctor So-and so" by college personnel.

At my former institution, there was a sad instance where a couple of full-time faculty earned doctoral degrees (including defending the dissertation) at a non-accredited university, only to have their petitions for professional advancement denied.


So, I have seen instances where non-accredited degrees can be either a help or a hinderance.

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino

 

To the question of just what is the market for a DETC doctorate, I happen to think it is quite large. Years ago a Bachelor put you into an elite crowd. Then as Bachelor degrees became more common, Master's degrees began to take the place of Bachelors as the degree of prestige. There is also a very practical issue here as well. Teachers used to be able to live their entire careers without feeling pressured to get their Masters. Then came a push to urge teachers to move on towards a Masters degree and this came with an increase in pay. I believe that the same momentum will push those with Master's degrees towards doctorates. It is only the logical natural progression of things.

Those already in academe, whether K-12 or higher Ed, that will be seeking a legitimate, CHEA and government approved doctoral program will have a DETC program to include in their list of choices. It is reasonable to figure that DETC choices may have some cost benefit associated with it.

So, a ready made market, a lower cost alternative, a legitimately accredited doctoral program...I think it all fits together. Time will tell, but for those already employed in education, it seems a legitimately accredited doctoral program will likely serve their purpose and a DETC PhD will be just that. I think it will all hinge on the bottom line cost differential. Perhaps 20 years from now, a BS will be the equivalent of the high school degree of 20 years ago and an MS will be as common as BS degrees of just a few years ago. There is only one place to go for all those MS degrees and that is to a PhD. The future market is huge, for many it will be a dollars and cents decision. If this is where DETC schools choose to position themselves, it may pay off for them. Keep I mind that those K-12 teachers in Georgia that paid the price for going the SRU route demonstrate the market is there.