TUI - Copy of Accreditation Status Report

The Middle States Commision on Higher Education mailed the “Statement of Accreditation Status” on Touro, which I received hard copy today. First, let me say, that I will fax this to anyone (within the US), who wants it, just PM me a fax number. Here is what it says WORD FOR WORD (sorry for it being long, but I didn’t want to remove anything in the section and make it seem out of context).

Section 3:
Accreditation Information
Status: Member since 1976
Last Reaffirmed: 2004

Most recent Commission Action: In June 2004, the Commission acted to remove the probationary status, to reaffirm the institution’s accreditation, and to affirm the inclusion of the branch campus in Germany within the scope of the institution’s accreditation. The Commission requested a monitoring report by October 1, 2004, documenting (1) implementation of a staffing plan for faculty at Touro University International (TUI), including a list of new full-time faculty hires since fall 2003 for all academic programs by degree level; (2) current TUI students enrollments for each academic program by degree level, including number of dissertations students; (3) consistency in credentials of TUI faculty mentors; and (4) further development and implementation of TUI faculty load guidelines. The Commission requested that the institution inform the Commission, prior to implementation, of plans to establish any new programs at TUI.

The Commission requested an additional monitoring report by March 1, 2006, documenting (1) development of measurable institutional goals and objectives states as outcomes; (2) institution-wide and coordinating planning process, with faculty involvement, which links long-range planning to the budgeting process; (3) evidence of methods of assessment of institutional effectiveness and student learning at the instructional, program, and course levels; (4) development of an institutional-wide faculty hiring plan, consistent with stated institutional goals and objectives; and (5) development of a plan for student support services, including steps taken to provide online registration. A small team will follow the submission of the report. The periodic Review Report is due June 1, 2009.

The Commission has determined the Touro University International (TUI) and Touro University California (TUC), branch campuses, are separately accredit able institutions, and directs Touro College to seek accreditation from the Western Association of Schools and College for both campuses. The Commission will continue to include TUI and TUC within the scope of Touro College’s accreditation until such time as the California-based branch campuses have secured candidacy or accreditation from WASC, but no later than June 30, 2005. As of June 30, 2005, TUI and TUC will no longer be included within the scope of the Touro College’s accreditation. During the interim period, TUI and TUC must continue to comply with the Commission on High Education’s requirements and standards.

The Commission acted to include Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine – Nevada, provisionally within the scope of Touro College’s accreditation, pending a joint review and site visit by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education and the Western Association of Schools and Colleges. The Commission noted that the Nevada campus will cease to be included within the scope of Touro College’s accreditation once TUC has secured candidacy or accreditation from WASC.


Section 1: Institutional Information (enrollment #’s, degrees offered, etc.)
Section 2: Institutional Locations: Names and addresses (TUI included in list)
Section 4: Brief History Since Last Comprehensive Evaluation: (Summary of the above).
Section 5: Definitions (3 defined)

 

Thanks.

 

Should I continue?

I am taking my 6th Ph.D. B.A. course with TUI. Should I request for stop-out until TUI gets accreditation from WASC, or should I continue with the study? Any advice???

 

address your concerns to the TUI Administration and ask them what their plan is to address your concerns. I have a friend attending TUI and he is in a similar situtation. The reply will speak volumes about where the school believes it stands. I would also make inquiries for transfer credits into another school. Don't expect more than 9 credits to transfer, and this number may be high.

Good Luck...

 

the time is now

We've all waited for this moment. Now we know that TUI and TUC are having problems. I suggest those who are thinking about attending TUI and TUC find another DL school. I started to apply for TUI in the beginning bu found out through degreeinfo.com that they were having issues. So don't waste your time and money. My heart goes out to the students who are currently enrolled at TUI this is a very hard blow. I hoped we have all learned from this situation. I just wish that TUI was more honest with the situation!!!!

 

Interview with TIU this Year

I had an interview for a Ph.D. position with TIU, Cypress, CA this year on-campus and no mention was made of this situation. However, I do not consider it serious since I see the school has very credible and was most impressed with the faculty and administration.

 

Like you can get into TUI (PhD)

For the last year, I've repeatedly tried to get into the Business PhD program. Its always full and there is a waiting list - which I can't find any way to get onto.

Well... I can take a hint. Good Luck TUI. My fully reimbursed tuition and 4.0 are takin' a walk.

Any suggestions? I'm looking for a regionally accredidated business PhD program with minimal hassle and real depth of learning.

 

Re: Like you can get into TUI (PhD)

There are many other options in the US. Among them are as follows:

1. Nova Southeastern University (DBA)
2. Capella University (PhD)
3. Walden University (PhD)
4. Union Institute & University (PhD)
5. Argosy University (DBA)
6. Northcentral University (PhD)
7. University of Phoenix (DM & DBA)
8. Pace University (DPS)
9. Colorado Technical University (DM)
10. Fielding Institute

For more info on US and foreign doctoral programs, you may visit Jonnie's Distance Learning Page.

 

Thanks for the info. I am surprised that no one has tried to put a spin on this.

 

I was emailed Han's post on TUI this morning by a colleague since I do not routinely browse this forum during active class sessions. I decided to browse this forum for some latest take on the subject as usual.

As for me, I am continuing full speed ahead with TUI program. I am convinced that when Touro’s Western United States branch campuses seek WASC accreditation they will get it. I do not see any problem at all with the issue. I think Touro main campus ought to allow the branch campuses to seek regional accreditation as suggested by MSA.

This is not a problem. To any one graduating on or before 2005 this should not be an issue. To those of graduating beyond that, it is not an issue as long as Touro is actively seeking accreditation at the candidacy level. Accreditation often takes as long as five years but with a fully developed branch campuses such as TUI and TUC there should be no issue.

Full speed ahead as far as I am concerned. I will leave the issue to the specialist at Touro College/University System to handle. There is no way TUI and TUC in California will not get accredited by WASC is they have already gone through such scrutiny by MSA.

I have said before that if I were searching for school at this moment with the waiting list at TUI, I would simply go somewhere else. To those already in the program, the issue is simply a growing pain which will go away soon.

I have not spoken with TUI or the main campus in New York over the issue. I will do so soon and will likely post their response.

Disclosure: I am a TUI student.

-oko

 

I would recommend that TUI students continue to monitor the situtation but not panic. But I also wouldn't under estimate the problem.

IMHO, TUI needs to formally comment on the situation and inform students and applicants of what progress they have made with WASC (or any other regional body). I say another regional body because if I was in their position I’d be packing my bags for an NCA state.

If TUI remains silent for more than a few weeks, I’d be on the phone to Northcentral University. Silence would be telling me they don’t have a viable business plan in place.

 

I am not so convinced. As has already been pointed out, TUI will have to make several changes to its doctoral programs if it is to be akin to other short-residency programs WASC has accredited. The alternative will be that WASC will change its expectations and allow 100% non-resident Ph.D. programs at TUI. I'm betting on the latter.

So, does TUI get accredited by WASC? Maybe, if it makes the changes, probably not if it does not. And that doesn't take into account all of the other changes (like building an adequate administrative/managerial infrastructure) TUI must develop and implement, plus all of the other standards (like financial viability) it must meet. Perhaps it meets some or all of these standards; we'll see. If I was a continuing student, I'd graduate just as soon as I could. If that graduation date was sometime after June 2005, I'd be concerned. And if I was considering entering the program, I might wait until candidacy from WASC is secured.

Note: If WASC accreditation was so achievable, why didn't Touro University International go get it in the first place? Why go through the ungainly process of being included in Touro College's MSA accreditation? Was it easier? Or was WASC out of reach?

I think MSA has decided that a school without doctoral programs in those disciplines shouldn't be operating a branch campus with such programs. And it certainly looks like MSA would like out of the situation it created. It has found such an out. I hope the students and faculty involved will see a successful transfer.

 

Rich, these are all educated guesses on your part and everyone else. I think we ought to wait and see what happens than to spew out guesses that are likely to be wrong.

Just yesterday, I was holding a conversation with my boss who used to be an MSA accreditor. He said TUI and TUC would have to seek separate and WASC accreditation because of their growth. He said that was the rule. This was just yesterday when I have not even read Han’s post. This morning, a colleague emailed Han's post to me.

I called Touro and this is what they said. Any time a branch campus is more than 50% of the number of students of its parent campus, it must seek independent accreditation. TUI and TUC therefore are sufficiently viable enough to do so. According to the individual I spoke with, TUI has begun the process of WASC accreditation since last year.

I have no reason to doubt Touro's response to my call. I look at the world from my surroundings. Of the three schools I have earned degrees and certificates, two are (were) branch campus. One is by law remains a perpetual branch campus and the other became a campus its own right way before I got there. They both are independently accredited from their main campuses. For some reasons though not consciously, I just gravitate to branch campuses.

WASC accreditation should not be harder to get. Every regional accreditation is about the same in the United States. The issue of why Touro has not souhgt WASC accreditation has been a matter of speculations in this forum. If anything MSA accreditation should be harder since they accredit Ivy League schools and WASC does not. Well that is just targential to our discussions.

Two or three days or even a week or two residencies does not add value to educational experience. I think that has been the issue here in this forum about schools with no residencies vs. schools with short residencies. People have been obtaining University of London and other European degrees for years without ever stepping into Europe. These people have gone on to be world class statesmen. One of the reasons I chose Touro is 100% no residency. I do not need it. The live class requirement in more than 50% of its classes basically all of the core courses were just enough for me.

Touro has already revamped their program since I started in the last Fall of last year. Some of the changes I do not like because it makes the program harder for me personally with less flexibility but I am too far gone to make any changes now. As far as the program and the professors are concerned it is a world class program.

It is wrong to speculate that one accrediting agency would not accredit a school based on speculations and when one does not possess school accreditation experience.

Let us not forget that TUI and TUC are new campuses less than ten years old, perhaps less than seven years old. They have done incredibly well and they have grown well in such a short time. It speaks to solid program they have put in place more than any thing else.

Speaking for myself, it is full speed ahead. I see no reason why Touro College/University system should not overcome any issue of these issues.

Regards.

oko

 

TUI accreditation

Hi Everyone:

First I would like to thank Han for the post concerning the specific statement that was submitted by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education. As a current TUI Ph.D. student, I discussed the concerns of the accreditation with academic administration members and they have full confidence in the procedures and challenges that are ahead. As a student of business, I have to look at these challenges in its innovative business oriented view. TUI has been a cutting edge institution by breaking new ground on distance learning non-residential Ph.D’s. They were faced with a large challenge in it’s last accreditation and revised and fulfilled the discrepancies completely. They have revamped the Ph.D. program with additional scholarly-based full-time faculty, a more structured curriculum, and more rigid research courses (which I can attest to that). I feel the probable WASC accreditation is a complement to TUI and TUC. It stated in the report that “The Commission has determined the Touro University International (TUI) and Touro University California (TUC), branch campuses, are separately accreditable institutions”. This means that the institutional structure and effectiveness provides it the opportunity to stand on its own. To me that is a complement. I feel there are many bricks & mortar schools that are active today that can’t provide as good results to stand-alone. I am going to stay confident and look at the glass half full instead of half empty. I have enjoyed an excellent education at TUI and look forward to completing my Ph.D. studies.

 

It will be great for the West Coast schools if TUI can get WASC accreditation! This will really open up some new possibilities.

John Sperling gave up, describing WASC explicitly as "predatory and unethical."

But hopefully they've changed.

Otherwise the track taken by Sperling and Hecht may be the best path forward.

 

OK, I wanted to put in a few comments / questions.

I think that it is obvious that TUI will be going for WASC, and it will be pushing the edge to do so, but they have pushed the leading edge in DL for sometime. It seems from the comments of students, that they are fulfilling the concerns of the accreditation agency, but here are a couple of my concerns:

1. Why is TUI not discussing this issue at all, no mention on the website, no public announcement at all? This concerns me that they are scrambling at this point, rather than taking the proactive approach to squash rumors. Again, only my opinion, but I think they are getting everything taken care of before they start accepting students again, which is a good plan. I just think they should explain a bit more, but I think this is a problem with all of academia, not just TUI.

2. WASC e-mailed me, upon my inquiry, that TUI has not approach them about accreditation. This actually does not concern me as much, as I think they will be on a fast track type situation, being it is a transfer, rather than initial accreditation.

3. Similar to 1, TUI is not discussing this issue with anyone outside the institution. (E-mails received, but “we will get back to you” answers, not to be returned). It is feeding to the issue, in my opinion. I don’t think anybody who is educated on the subject would not take an answer like, “We are working our accreditation issues and will put forth a statement in the near term”. That is better, in my opinion than not returning e-mails, and the “we are at capacity” statements. I am not saying to reveal more than they can legally, but since they are releasing statements to their students, why not be that up front with others? Maybe it is for legal reasons, not sure.

Time will tell if they can get the accreditation quickly, and what ramifications it will have. If they get WASC, it will be a big step for DL, if they don’t, couldn’t they relocate to another area, being the program is completely DL?

 

I can no longer believe any information that is coming from TUI anymore because of the following reasons:

1. When Touro College of New York (TC) was placed on probation, we were told that the probation had nothing to do with TUI but that’s a big lie. We know now that the probation had everything to do with TUI.

2.When accreditation was restored eventually, we were told that it was restored unconditionally. That’s also another big lie. MSA included TUI conditionally in TC’s accreditation.

3. Now that it has been revealed that MSA told TUI explicitly to seek its own accreditation from its region of operation, we are now being told that TUI will achieve RA in a record time, and that it will (definitely) secure RA from WASC in 9 months. Yea, and you think that I will believe that? No way.

4. Last year, some people were almost convinced that TUI could secure AACSB accreditation in two or three years. It’s happening again. We are being told that securing RA is a piece of cake for TUI.

Despite what I have said or written about this matter, I am inclined to believe that TUI will eventually achieve RA but major changes have to come first. TUI’s 100% DL will be discontinued, otherwise, it will unlikely secure RA in WASC jurisdiction.

 

Actually, that’s not entirely true. When I inquired, Dr. Gold was very quick to return my call. We spent close to thirty minutes discussing the issue, and he was extremely forthright about their accreditation situation.

I’m assuming they’re not going to answer questions when they feel they’re being ambushed, or if they feel the information is simply going to be picked apart in a public forum. Most distance learning institutions are also businesses, and as such they may not release as much information to the general public as some might like. The administration is VERY accessible to students, if they have questions, I would encourage them to call the school and ask. The fact that they are not releasing information to the general public at this time is a businesses. While we can question the wisdom of that position, it is still their decision to make.

 

Are you a student? I said they don't seem to be talking to others outside the institution, more clearly stated, the non-students or administration. I would assume you are a student, if they spoke to you, but you said that I was not accurate in my statement, so if you are not a student, I stand corrected. If you are a student, I don't see where the statement is incorrect.

There would be no ambushing, if they had nothing to hide They may not want it discussed at all, so are not releasing statements. Like a few students have said "Let's not discuss it and see what happens". They may feel ambushed, since it seems (from one of the postings here), that un-truths were told to some of the students. Oh what a tangled web we weave.........

 

I stand corrected, I misread your statement in regard to students being given information. Also, I use the term ambushing very loosely. What I am referring to is the poor “investigative reporting” tactics I see on this board from time to time. The fact that someone doesn’t want to give you information doesn’t necessarily mean they have something to hide. They may be trying to prevent outsiders from spinning the situation. I personally think they should address the situation publicaly, but I also understand they have practicle business reasons for not doing so. As often happens in public forums, facts can be muddled with speculation and conjecture by posters who may not be intimately familiar with the facts. If it were my business, I’m not sure how willing I would be to share that information.