The Dantes site lists the pass fail rates of Military members for its exams. Some of the pass rates are really low. Does a high percentage of members of the Military just take these exam with out any study because they are free, and fail. The CPA & Law Bar exams have higher pass rates than these exams. What could be the reason for the low scores? If you could only take one type of exam (as a whole), would you take all cleps or all Dantes?
CLEP's all the way I prefer CLEPs all the way. You find out right there, no waiting. they are also multiple choice. The only problem is that Dantes and Cleps have different subjects, so we need both. I wish that Dantes would join the 21st century and go on computer. i hate having to wait 3 weeks to find out my score. CLEP's have seemed to be a bit easier from my experience. As for the military pass rates, a large percentage of the military come straight out of high school with little or no college. they also have little or marginal work experience. this all bodes well for low pass rates. If the military is reporting a high passage rate, you know it's easy. i love Lawrie Millers site www.bAin4weeks.com ; as he also has a difficulty index which seems to be a bit more accurate than is the military scale.
Re: CLEP's all the way Ultimale, what are you basing the above statement on??? Do you even know anyone in the military? You are way off target on that one. Mr. D
Re: Re: CLEP's all the way I was in the Army, and I concur, in general, with Ult's comment. I joined at 17, and the vast majority of the people I served with were in the same boat. Officers are an exception - they already have college. But for enlisted, I would estimate that 80-90% of the guys I served with had no college, and very little work experience outside of the military. Why? Because we weren't old enough to have had that yet Some older enlisted fellows had a bit of college, or maybe even a degree, but they were in the minority. His statement isn't a slap at people serving in the military, its just simple fact. Remember, most kids join the military to earn college money ... Cheers.
Re: Re: Re: CLEP's all the way Well, that's true. I am teaching my platoon on Fundamentals of Web Development...Most of them don't have any experience in computer or basic of web design. Even though some Officers. Most of Military Active Members don't seek college until getting out of the service. Me? I am working along my degree, and hopefully leave the service with B.S in Computer Science, A.S in Management, B.S in Business Administration.....then continue for Master degree when I am out of the service.
Re: Re: CLEP's all the way Mr D, Yes, I stand by my statement and it is based on the following: I was in the Navy for four years (92-96). I still have many friends which are Chiefs, officers, in all branches of the military. To enter the Navy, I was required and subsequently scored a perfect score on my ASVAB (99%). This indicated that I tested the highest possible score (there is no 100%, don't ask me why) I was then selected to lead (RCPO) what turned out to be the largest company (150 recruits) in Naval history to the status of Hall of Fame company(only 77 companies in over 11,000). Then proceeded to set the all time record for highest GPA in Hospital Corps school (99.87%). I was selected sailor of the Quarter for the entire WestPAc, and finished 2nd in sailor of the year. I later became the training petty officer for my department and career counselor. My job was to counsel sailors on obtaining their degree. This is where I learned about the specifics of distance learning, and what education statistics sailors really had, their scores, etc. 9/10th of the military is enlisted with no college degree, so that leaves less than 1/10 (officers) that has obtained a Bachelors degree. So whether it was my personal background, my training, my job descriptions, I wasn't talking about theory, but reality. It was not a slam, I love the military and anyone who serves, but the reality is most don't have a degree or real life business experience. The average age of a E1 is approximately 20 years old/ How much business experience could they possibly have? And what type of job can you obtain at age 18,19? Fry cook at McDonalds? Certainly they are not a CEO, VP. Many go into the military to get the Gi bill to earn a degree, or obtain technical training, direction, discipline and a variety of other reasons. I'm not sure what you would be thinking by saying that I am off base, but this is a free country, and you're entitled to your opinion. That's what makes this country, this board so great. Good luck
Ultimale, For what it's worth, I was in the navy for six years (1995-2001) as an ET and I agree with you. Although I am proud of the time I served in the Navy and think the military is an honorable career choice, the fact of the matter is that the majority of junior enlisteds are immature teenagers who aren't at a stage where they take higher education seriously. Also, I think that some of the low pass rates on the CLEP and Dantes exams can be attributed to the junior enlisted personnel who take them casually. For example, as we all know CLEPS and Dantes are free for active duty military personnel. When I was stationed in Diego Garcia, many people took the tests to simply get out of work for one morning (CLEPS and Dantes were offered on the first Thursday of the month). Also, even for the people who took the test itself seriously, many didn't study; they just wanted to give the test a shot to see if they could pass. Now, I don't want to sound as if I am attacking the junior enlisted people. But, the reality is that many military personnel don't take college seriously until they are either a) ready to separate or b) career-designate trying to move up in rank. I am not trying to generalize based on my experience, but in my specific case, I wasn't serious about college until I had one year left on my enlistment. Until that point, I was more interested in working out and meeting girls.
Great point! Rob, Great point. Because the CLEP, Dantes were free for sailors, many didn't study at all, and would just show up take it. Sometimes they would tell me their main motivation was simply so their LPO would give them higher evals since they were pursuing a degree. We had a few who really took advantage of the opportunities provided (very few) and these were the hard chargers. They usually ended up winning awards, commendations, fast promotion and recognition like SOQ, SOY, etc. The Navy tries hard to provide education for the sailors, but most just didn't take advantage of it. When it was time to study for advancement, that was another story. I don't feel that you post came accross as attacking junior enlisted, I think it is accurate. Most it's the first time away from home, the first time they had a consistent paycheck, responsibility, etc. The Navy is a great place to start (sounds like a commercial ) When I was 18-20, I was pretty much the same way. It's nice to see your plugging away on your Masters as well. keep up the good work. I wish I finished mine while I was in the Navy, I taught people how to finish their degrees, tuition assistance, but procrastinated on my own. Cost me many thousands of dollars. At least i have the GI Bill.
As a former member of the USAF, my personal observation during my time on active duty was that many simply did not bother to crack a book prior to sitting for the test.....I assume that's because they did not pay a fee to take the exam; they could try it out, get a feel for what is on the exam and retake it again 6 months later. Disclaimer: this is nothing more than my personal observation!!!
Ultimale / Unixman / Tekamn / Rob L Great response form everyone. Let me clear up a couple of items that got my blood pressure up. Ultmale “If the military is reporting a high passage rate, you know it's easy.” The CLEP and DSST exams were designed to satisfy the requirements of a 2-4 year degree. That would put the difficultly target level at the 18-24 year group. Also, the DSST test at Naval Station Jacksonville is the same test that is at XYZ testing center in New York. “A large percentage of the military come straight out of high school with little or no college.” For the Navy that would be 40,450 per year out of a work force of 365,900. However, only 11.2% of the 18-24 year olds in the United States has a Bachelor’s degree or higher. So the same could be said about the other 88.8%. About 162,000 are 1st termer’s (1-4 years) of which 34% stay Navy. That puts a very large amount of the workforce in the “high work experience” category. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that when you compare Military to Civilian its a wash at best.
Absolutely correct. The military is built upon by civilians looking to serve, get money for school, get training, etc. The majority of the military exam takers are young and inexperiecnced. The military shows the pass rates, unfortunately, there is no equivilant in the civilian sector. If we could find a civilian 17-20 year old civilian eqivilant, I'm sure that the numbers would be very similiar. Distance learners however are not normally 18-20. The average DL is approximately 35 years old, 10-15 years in the work place and is going back to school to take his career to the next level. Therefore, the DL learner is a more focused, experienced, purposeful learner, than an 18 year old whether military or civilian. So one could deduce that they would test higher than the military equilivant. Cheers
I think everyone involved in this thread made intelligent observations. However, one thing I would like to point out is that although the military pass rates may not mirror the pass rates of civilian test takers, they still serve as an excellent guide. For example, exams with high pass rates (such as the General Cleps, Intro to Business, etc) tell a prospective test taker with significant work/life experience that he/she will probably only need a minor review of the material to pass the test. For exams with extremely low pass rates (Business Law for example) indicates to the test taker that he/she will have to seriously study in order to pass the exam. Also, the more I thought about the topic of this thread, I wonder if the military pass rates differ that much from the civilian pass rates. Although many of the test takers (especially in this forum) are older, mature full-time workers, many civilian test takers are college kids trying to "test out" of a required class. I don't know for certain if young college students are as serious as junior enlisted military personnel when it comes to approaching the exams, but I would venture to say that many young college students take the tests without studying. So, it could be possible that the military pass rates can be an accurate sample of the pass rates at large.
LOL. Except me. I am a distance learner for over a year; and I just turned 21 years old within a month. hehehehe
YOU ARE WAY AHEAD of the game TEKMAN, You rule! You are definitely the exception. You are way ahead of the game. My nephew is going to go the DL route now too. SO that makes a total of 2 DLers under the age of 30 worldwide. I wish I knew about DL when I was 21, if I did, I would have 3 PhD's by now. I was BORED to death in B & M. I felt like it was high school for young adults. At least with DL, I can learn at my own pace, which was always faster than the B & M would teach. Tek, how come you went into the Marines? ALL top DLers know Navy is the place to be!
