Discouraged, is DL really not good enough ?? seeking encouragement !

I must admit, the talk of DL degrees,these programs being either worthless, or diminished in value has depressed me a bit. So heres my story, maybe I am a little stressed with some finals and projects, but do the College HR people really discount DL and
real world accomplishment that much, or are there several scrooges here.??

My story

A year and a half ago I bought a book about degrees, thank you Dr. John Bear, I found Lawries Site (thanks). I decided I wanted to teach, and get my degree so I enrolled at Excelsior on a cold day in December. I also started taking DE and face to face classes for a program that allows you to be certified to teach, including "student teaching" at a public school. state certification etc.

Started January 6th
In one year I will have completed the following:

Degree from Excelsior BS Psych Focus Education 3.55 GPA
Degree from Excelsior BS Business School (human resources)
Within 90 days I had enough to graduate with the first degree
so I started tweaking.would have been done much faster but I needed (decided) to wait for a face to face (B & M) course
Completed (insert Major College) Teacher prep program for
Elementary Education and Secondary Requirements 32 credits in Education face to face and DL

First degree requiremnts are complete as of June 15th, second by
October30th My student teaching and state certification will be bestowed including all Praxis requirements for both Primary K-9 and secondary (social sciences (6-12). I am in the process of enrolling at USQ, in a DL Masters of education program which
I will start before the year is out.

I will have gone from 19 credit hours to:

2 degrees and a teaching certificate (in elementary, middle and secondary )in one of the most demanding states in one year.
All regionally accredited. I will have started a Masters degree and should complete it within 10 Months. I will start teaching full time and persue a PHD and even an MBA.

NOW I read that my degree is not well thought of: It is a bit depressing that I have made this progress.

WEll, if you were an employer and saw this on my resume, would it be impressive or would you pick someone who has spent Seven years doing their B & M Masters and PHD.


Here is my "Life" track record with 19 college credits,

I have had failures as well along the line, these are the highlights

I started working with various businesses when I was in college and moved up the ladder to upper middle management in distribution, sales and management.

I then started my own retail computer company out of a garage
that grew to 6.5 million in sales and 22 Employees I sold part of it.
it is still going fairly well.

I turned an interest of collecting old cars into a profitable portfolio
and small company. providing fun and excitement. and a decent amount of money.

I remarried a wonderful woman who is an elementary teacher/specialist and have 2 wonderful children 5 and 9.



Gmund48

 

Good grief, what are you complaining about?

It sounds like you taken the bull by the horns. I see nothing wrong with what you've accomplished. It appears to be a great achievement. Go forth and prosper.

 

And your problem is...?

 

It's not clear to me who is saying these negative things about DL. Certainly not anyone on this forum. There will always be naysayers in the world, people who will sneer at any innovation. Don't let them discourage you. You have set yourself up for an excellent career. Once you are hired no one will ever wonder where your degree came from. They will only judge you by your job skills.
Jack

 

My Two Cents

Sir, believe me when I say that there are people out there who would have some type of 'nay say' or discreprency (if you will) about the B&M school and B&M degree you have chosen to complete at that B&M school. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong but I do not believe you degree certificate, or your transcript indicated your degree was taken through DL. I hardly see how or why that would be an issue. As long as your degree and your school is an accredited one, and is recognized by the US Department of Education, who cares? Just so you'd know, some of the school you would consider 'high classed' offer distance degrees/classes/programs too. If I'm not mistaken, I think Harvard offers some type of online class and I think Stanford does as well. Thing is, distance degree learning is catching on like wildfire. Sooner or later, those who you think care about how you 'earn' your degree (and you did earn it even through distance) a few years from now, would be surfing this same forum looking for a distance degree program too. Frankly speaking, with the invention of distance learning, I doubt I will ever step foot in a B&M school ever again.

Just my two (three or more) cents.

 

Hi,

Whoever is spouting stuff to you about excelsior/regents/DL not being "well thought of" is either disgruntled, snobbish, or just mis-informed. You should be extremely proud of yourself and your educational accomplishments, I believe they are extremely admirable. Excelsior is regionally accredited, recognized by the NY board of regents, and very well known in adult education, don't be discouraged. I know quite a few teachers with degrees from there, and their credentials have never been questioned.

 

Jack,

You stated that nobody has animadverted DL on this forum. You also expressed the same view on another thread. No, I respectfully disagree with you. You probably assume that people merely expressed their honest views about DL but what you failed to ruminate is that expression of views may be regarded as criticism?

What is the meaning of the words ‘criticize’? According to Oxford Dictionary, the word, ‘criticize’, means ‘to express one’s views as to the merit or demerit of; especially, to animadvert upon; to find fault with; as, to criticize conduct’; to disapprove of something; to say what you do not like or think about something.

Did some forum contributors find several faults with DL this week? The answer is yes. Did some forum contributors focus on the demerits of DL and almost disapprove of DL? The answer is yes again. I am not in any way suggesting that criticism is a bad thing. I am only saying that I am in full agreement with the initiator of this thread in saying that DL has truly taken some beatings on several threads this week. The initiator of this thread is absolutely correct.

 

Ike: You used "animadvert" correctly. Not that you wouldn't, but almost nobody does. You made my whole day. Happy happy happy...

ANOTHER BLOODY TRIUMPH FOR DISTANCE LEARNING.

LOOK ON [OUR] WORKS, YE MIGHTY, AND DESPAIR!

CRITICS, LEAHY YOURSELVES!


Oh. I better go to bed now. Noapte buna, guys.


(exits right, falling over furniture)

 

Gmund,

Some of the people here have a habit of focusing only on the empty part of the cup, and to try to get extra attention, they try to make the cup look completely empty when it isn't. In addition, uncalled stereotypes of DL learners as "never able to make it into B&M schools" further adds to the heat. Posters like these are few but their one-sided threads start a lot of heated debates, and I think we are all guilty of paying too much attention to their comments. I think DL already has enough critics and doesn't need to be extra-slammed the way it has been over the last two weeks.

None of the DL schools are without faults and some still have room for further improvements, but overall most are pretty decent and some have very promising programs. The same can be said of B&M schools.

That being said, your credentials look very good and your education is accreditted so you should be very proud of yourself.
DL is still made of a small community of people, and its great that it is made of accomplished individuals such as yourself.

-S

 

Re: My Two Cents

Most degrees and transcripts don't say that the degree was earned by distance learning. However if you see a resume and the individual that earned an MBA from a Boston school in 1999, but in the work background section it says that they worked full time for a company in Toronto from 1995-2002 you would have to be an pretty big idiot, if you right away don't come to a conclusion that the degree was probably earned by distance learning.

 

Re: Re: My Two Cents

One can mitigate this, for the most part, by simply omitting the date your degree was conferred from your resume. You will have to eventually put it on a job application, if you get that far along in the hiring process, but by that time, it probably won't matter.

Cheers.

 

Hi Gmund48

I trust your 'depression' about DL has been cleared up by the other contributors.

I do not recognise the 'debate' on rigour and DL from your (and others') responses. Unfortunately, though the debate about the rigour of degree courses was focussed on DL programmes, exactly the same problems alluded to feature widely in campus degree programmes. In fact they originate there.

Many of the bad habits of academic assessment (or lack of it) are widespread on campus; some of these bad habits are re-appearing in some DL programmes (especially of the Distance Teaching or DT variety). Hence, it is not something unique to DL at all. Of course, some DL programmes have invented their own versions of dumbing down - on line examinations, unproctored exams, continuous assessments, choice of questions, non-validated grading - but let me stress most of these are more widespread in campus degree programmes.

Andy was concerned largely about PhD level entry standards and offered the astonishing (to me, anyways) information that he knew of institutions that are 'afraid' to fail poor quality performing students, and worse, believed the problem would be solved by raising pre-course entry qualifications (GMAT, GRE, GPA, etc.,).

But there is no point raising pre-entry standards if there are no post-entry examinations which fail failures to perform. The assumption that evidence of ability is enough to ensure a zero or near zero failure rate is problematic. More than half the people EBS fails have first, and sometimes second, degrees from reputable universities and many have good GMAT scores too. The entry input is not a guarantee of an exit output.

Again, this has little to do uniquely with DL. All the evidence I have seen is that there is no significant diference in performance between DL and Campus Taught (CT) graduates. This is endorsed by our own statistics (8,000 MBA graduates, sitting up to 9 final exams or over 70,000 separate examinations) in which no statistical test we can devise enables you to predict whether they did their degree programmes by DL or CT (or, indeed, DT) modes of study.

In time the evidence for the quality of DL will be widely understood. As for 'snobbery', well, that will take much longer to change, if ever. Members of 'in-groups' in all walks of life, from Street Gangs to Academe, disaparage the 'out groups'. It's human nature.

Keep the faith; as we say in the UK: 'You done good'. In fact, doing your DL programme the way you did, you done better than good. Congratulations.

 

Well Ike, I don't read every thread and so it's entirely possible I missed something. At the same time, I'm aware that there were some threads regarding the rigor of DL in which suggestions were made about how rigor in DL programs, or the perception of rigor in DL programs might be improved. Are these the threads to which you are referring? If so, then I'd say that it was my opinion that the postings that were critical of DL were made with the intent of making DL better and not simply to bash. Because nothing is perfect, it is possible to criticize anything or anyone. If the criticism is made in a constructive, not a destructive manner, then it should be seen as an effort to make things better. It is widely acknowledged that DL degrees raise eyebrows and lead to "further questions" in hiring interviews. It is generally said that a DL degree makes a full-time, tenure track academic position more difficult to acquire. Wouldn't it be a good thing if, because of some honest, constructive criticism, DL degrees, or the perception of DL degrees, improved to a point where this was no longer the case?
Jack

 

That's fair enough. I am for any kind of constructive criticism than can help improve the image of DL.

 

Congratulations!! . I think you misuderstood some of the discussions, the issues were raised mainly for doctoral programs. Doctoral Programs in DL are quite new and there are some rigour issues that were raised but I don't think it applies for most of the cases. DL degrees from accredited universities are as useful as any other degree for industry positions since it is really the experience as skill that matters.

The issues raised were mainly for academic positions requiring a PhD, the main issue is not really the DL component but the fact that most of the full time B&M PhDs prepare students better for scholar work since students are required to publish in scientific journals before graduation. They also get to teach in B&M schools before graduation making them better candidates for faculty positions. The other issue is that competition for faculty positions is quite tough and part time DL doctorare have many clear disadvantages.

 

Certain trolls with personal agendas like to attack me because I took 3 degrees from Excelsior's predecessor, The USNY, in 21 months. They take that as an indicator that the program is somehow easy, flawed, or "barely accredited." Well, bull.

Excelsior (and its predecessors) has been operating for more than 30 years. Its accreditation has never come into question. Further, its nursing programs are accredited by the NSN, further testament to its quality. Similar statements can be supported regarding TESC and COSC. The notion that degrees from these schools are somehow less valuable is rubbish. There is no evidence that such a situation exists. But there is a great deal of anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Graduates of Excelsior (and its predecessors) have been accepted to law schools, B-schools, even medical schools.

We'd all like to go to Harvard. But don't be put off by naysayers who want to drag you down to their level. There is a huge--HUGE difference between schools like Excelsior and less-than-wonderful schools like those promoted by the trolls.

Rich Douglas
A.A. (Liberal Arts) The University of the State of New York
A.A.S. (Education Administration and Methodology) Community College of the Air Force
B.S. (Business) The University of the State of New York
B.A. (Sociology) The University of the State of New York
M.B.A. (Business) National University
Ph.D. (Higher Education, specialization in Nontraditional Higher Education) Union Institute and University

All regionally accredited. Is there a problem with that?

 

DL RULES!!!!!!



DL RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes indeed. That was an associate's degree and two bachelor degrees in the best part of two years. The performance requirements in the GRE subject exams Rich used in earning his degrees, have gone from a very comfortable 35 - 40 percentile to above the eightieth percentile, today.

Yet, still the affected “concern”. What disappoints are not the "trolls with personal agendas", but those among the self-appointed cognoscenti who profess to know better yet regularly indulge their prejudice at the expense of those, like Rich, who have done something extraordinary.

.

 

Re: DL RULES!!!!!!