Conversations with HR Managers

Based on conversations with a couple of HR directors within my corporation, for the most part DL degrees (any DL) are considered less valuable than indentical degrees achieved traditionally. I have asked point-blank whether there is a difference between identical degrees earned from the same institution where one was attained traditionally and the other through DL and the answer was surprisingly -- yes! From their point of view the DL degree was considered inferior because so much of business is conducted face-to-face. They feel that DL students aren't groomed in the fine art of appearances, listening, teamwork and leadership -- characteristcs that are desired by business. Of course they agreed that often they don't know that a degree is DL and so they are prevented from applying bias.

While I think they have made this generalized notion about DL degrees based on the requirements for applicants with business degrees, they also seem to apply this bias to technical degree applicants! What I find interesting is that when asked about characteristics that DL would better groom the applicant (written communications, computer skills, organization, self-motivation, etc.) they did not seem ready to concede that DL applications would be better at these things. Needless to say, these discussions can be quite frustrating.

BTW, I think these individuals had no idea that I was working on a BS degree by DL. They are the big wigs and my tuition reimbursement is made at a lower level. Therefore, I think they were being more honest with their "feelings." What even may be more confusing is that they both seemed to agree that DL was a good way to train the existing workforce! (Did I mention frustrating?)

 

Vault.com did a survey of HR managers in 2000 that concluded the same thing. The comments made, however, revealed much about HR managers' ignorance and very little about substantial reasons why they felt the way they did.

 

I think this is the case for HR, but my experience is that HR is one step removed from the real world workings (no offense to HR people here, but I have had some really bad experiences).

Interstingly, we had a team that was located in 4 sites around the country, one reason I was selected was that I earned me MBA online, and we did most of our work via team based projects. Web ex, video teleconferencing, etc were something I was seasoned. My boss needed someone with my experiences and understanding of the problems.

By this, I think HR might see it as inferior, but those situations that aid the team members, I think the "real bosses" are beginning to realize the added value.

I disagree that everything comes down to face to face. Globalization is happening, and you can't travel to China everytime you need to talk to your Chinese supplier. Those who think face to face is the only way needs to get with the times, or they will be in a bankrupt organization.

 

My Thoughts on HR Directors

After reading your post, it confirms to me why I tell students NEVER to apply to the human resource department of any company. They should be treated for what they are: order takers. You make your pitch to the highest official you can find, then let THAT person tell H.R. "hey, get this guys application!"

 

I could potentially understand if this bias was applied to 21-year old candidates with no previous work experience, but I have yet to see a B&M program or course on "grooming"...and I personally know someone with a prestigious Oxford undergrad and master's degree who fails in most if not all areas that you reference above.

What would really scare me is if the HR director screens out DL candidates without meeting them first. Many people with years of work experience and proven credibility are going back to school via the DL route because of time/family constraints and the need to put food on the table.

Seems like another example of "don't ask, don't tell" with respect to HR! Thanks for posting this...

Cheers,
Mark

 

Re: Re: Conversations with HR Managers

ME TOO!!!

I wish there was a way to educate people in these positions about the value of a distance learning degree. Since the higher ups seem only to be involved when hiring executive management, I'm guessing that we won't see any VPs with DL degrees any time soon.

 

Re: Re: Conversations with HR Managers

This is slowly starting to change, as the lines between schools that grant DL degrees and schools that grant B&M degrees is blurred.

Not to be too negative here, but recently, I was in attendance at a regional high-tech job fair. At one point, I was near a booth for a contingent IT recruiting firm. A potential candidate was standing there talking to the recuiter, and she mentioned that she got her BS (or whatever) from UoP. It was surreal - but it was like the old E.F. Hutton commercials. You know, "when E.F. Hutton speaks, people listen". Everyone sort of "froze", and it got real quiet. The recruiter sort of stared at her for a second or two, then quickly hurried up his conversation with her so he could move on. I felt bad for her. Had she stated that she got her degree from some other school, not necessarily known for DL degrees, she may have garnered a different reaction.

Nevertheless, as more and more B&M institutions offer DL options, we should see a marked improvement moving forward. Especially since the vast majority of the B&M schools are being very careful NOT to list "online" or "web" or "distance" on the conferred degree. But it will take some time ... I doubt anyone will argue the merits of a "BS in Business" from most state or regional schools - distance or not.

Cheers.

 

Re: My Thoughts on HR Directors

Very , very true, and vice versa. I have seen some when hiring on a person do all the research some databases, find the candidate, have him phone interview with the pertinent people, once ready for the final interview (face to face, with travel involved), get HR involved. The HR person needs to "screen" him, but just a formailty at that point. A win / win. The HR person feels they have done their part, and you get a good candidate! Otherwise too many get screened out for unimportant reasons.

 

I thing the point approaches irrelevance. My own experience in large companie has been consistent. In not a single case where a job was posted within my area of hiring purview did HR have any more input than that of initial filter to ensure at least the minimum level of degree was attained and requisite experience was verified. I have never been in a hiring experience where anyone at any level in HR would have even had the power to decline a candidate based on where the degree was acquired or by what means. Once it was verified as meeting the criteria (accreditation) they were out of the loop.

I think his is the overwhelming norm. HR can have whatever opinions they want, but I think most of them are moot when to comes to specific hiring decisions.

 

Don't be surprised if you see a change in this way of thinking in the not-too-distant future. I'm a seasoned HR veteran and, like many of my colleagues, 'stumbled' into HR from another area. Quite frankly, my guess is that most HR professionals in their mid-to-upper 40's and beyond do NOT have a degree in HR.

In looking at my closest HR friends, none of us came with a degree in HR, yet we all are in very senior HR roles (VP, Director, etc.) in our organizations. I came from audiology, another came from criminal justice, another from healthcare administration, the fourth from nursing and the fifth has a sociology/psych background.

All five of us are now enrolled in MBA or MS in HR Management programs -- and all five of us are enrolled in online programs. 2 of us are at Amberton, one is at U of P, one is at UMUC and the 5th one is in a distance program offered by one of her local state universities.

We're not alone. We all know that in order to continue to be taken seriously in strategic and senior management teams we need to have a business background and, with our busy and stressful jobs, we certainly don't have the time to take off and go back to school.

That said, I suspect that if you were to poll HR managers/directors/leaders a few years from now the results would be quite different than the polls taken in the past.

 

It shouldn't matter what HR directors say about distance learning degrees. You shouldn't go through them anyway. I've always considered my friendly HR office as having more of a delivery boy function. You get hired by THEIR bosses who tell HR to "get you the paperwork to fill out."

HR people are also in CYA mode. They all want the Harvard, Stanford, Yale grads.

Frankly, I wouldn't put much stock in what HR directors say.

 

As the author of one of only two studies related to this (the other done by Vault.com in 2000), I'll weigh in with my opinion: I don't think so. Nothing seems to be changing. Furthermore, the literature in the HR field never, ever addresses this. Finally, it is not a subject taught in HR classess and textbooks. Other than publicity (which comes and goes--it's hot right now), where's the change agent? What will make a difference?

 

It depends on whoyou talk to.

I have several friends who work for various large corporations, in the HR department. i asked them what they thought about DL and non traditional degrees, and each and every one said they were impressed with the caliber of student that obtained their degree via DL. Their only concern was whether the degree was accreditted. They felt these graduates were MUCH more motivated, experienced than their B & M counterparts. A DL graduate generally has much more real life experience, and makes a better candidate.

I made some calls to some friends of mine that are high level recruiters, each makes in excess of $400,000 per year by placing professionals at fortune 500 companies, and asked them the same question. Each of them also said, an accreditted DL BS was justas saleable as a B & M degree. The exception would be harvard, stanford, and other high level schools. They all said the major issues are interview skills, and work experience. TO say that DL learners can't interview or speak as well as BM schools is just ridiculuous simply because the average DL learner has been in the real world for an average of 7-10 years, not chugging beers at a frat house.

To ask a HR person who doesn't know anything about DL, their answer will probably be less than favorable, since they are ignorant to it. This gets back to the old, studies say............ and research proves........... This is nonsense. The phrasing of the questions will ALWAYS determine the outcome. Using presuppositions, leading questions, loaded questions will always elicit the desired response.

The top paying positions are generally going to be placed by a high level recruiter, who will groom and assist in t he obtainment of the job. Just my .02

 

Good post, JoAnnP38,

As some have already stated, there are plenty of people that are uninformed about DL. The crack down on degree mills has IMO raised their suspicion on DL, but I suspect that this will change. And I say this because I met so many working professionals in HR at the Capella residential colloquia who are getting their DL degrees. Basically, almost everyone was older than me, about 38-55 yrs. old, with over 10-20 years of experience. And a large number of these were HR directors, VP of some companies, Deans of 4 year colleges, etc. In sum, very accomplished individuals.

I also came in contact with a former CEO of a huge healthcare company (don't remember what it is, but you can look it up on the net), I believe his name is Kevin B. Piper, a former Capella student.

With so many people on top getting DL degrees, it seems that the probability that DL will gain more acceptance is high in the foresable future.

Maybe you could provide those HR directors with some of the information discussed in this thread. I don't think you'll change their views, after all they are supposed to be the "experts", but you might help them clarify some of the myths about DL grads.

Just a thought.

-S

 

Phooey

Well, phooey. Unfortunately, this fits in with another thread I started about a nontraditional California lawyer.

What is it, anyway? Prejudice? Superstition? Or an easy way to eliminate candidates to make the hiring decision easier?

 

Re: Phooey

I think it's the older HR person's memory of matchbook covers with ads on them that said things like, "Get your Degree from Home!" and that sort of thing. It's an old dog/new tricks sort of thing.

 

I have been working for an Italian translation agency as a Technical Translator for approximately 1 year. I have neither seen them face to face, nor spoken to them on the phone. Nevertheless, I do listen to them carefully and need to keep up business appearances. I do so via email. It's worked so far, as they keep coming back. All forms of communication have their place and make the interaction richer. IMHO, so do residential sessions in DL.