Hi, I am a DL student with a school in CA. I find it difficult because I don't have the classroom interaction, but convenient because it fits into my work schedule. HOWEVER...I live in NY and my state does NOT accept this type of degree! So I've been asking myself WHY? am I doing this? I have ALWAYS wanted a law degree but from reading information on DL schools, it is NOT very encouraging because the majority of them are NOT accredited! So am I wasting my time or gaining an education even though it is not from an ABA school (when I finish will I be able to work on the east coast???) Thanks
Sure you will be able to work, but probably not as an attorney. You could possibly get a paralegal-type job with a degree like that and some relevant experience. There are all kinds of para-professional jobs associated with law offices and public agencies where some legal background would probably impress employers. I think that you need to investigate what it takes to be admitted to the bar in NY and in any other state you consider practicing. Almost certainly a non-accredited CA distance law degree won't be enough. And if it isn't enough, you will need to rethink your plan. That means that you probably should consider attending an in-class ABA-accredited law school, at night if necessary. Your current studies certainly won't be wasted. You have been studying law, right? If you really did learn the material, then you have a great head start that will allow you to advance more rapidly and confidently.
Someone correct me if I am wrong. I think that the University of London distance law program that will allow a person to sit for the NY bar? If I recall correctly, there is a lady who is doing this program now and has a webpage that discusses it. I don't have the URL offhand. Bing
According to the New York State Board of Law Examiners website at http://www.nybarexam.org/barexam.htm According to my copy of Bears' Guide, all states where apprenticeship is possible require evidence of four continuous years of law study and some (including NY) require that one of those years be at an ABA-approved school. ------------------ Kristin Evenson Hirst DistanceLearn.About.com
New York rules specifically exclude correspondence study. Neither a DL LL.B. from U of L or a J.D. from a CA DL school are acceptable. Christopher
I found the page I was thinking of: http://www.malet.com/deborahm.htm. This lady completed here LLB from University of London. An excerpt from the page: "Some additional benefits are that I have been able to join the Middle Temple, one of the Inns of Court in London, the International Bar Association, and have completed the MPRE pre-bar examination for the United States. I plan to sit for the New York State Bar in about two weeks." So, if you cannot do it via a distance degree how can she sit for the NY bar? Bing
Bing-- I do not know. The regulation is very clear, and I invite skeptics to look it up. Visit http://www.nybarexam.org/court.htm. Part 520.3 (c) (3) states, "No credit shall be allowed for correspondence courses." I'd love to do a U of L LL.B. and sit for the NY Bar. But unless I moved to the UK, did the requisite vocational training after receiving the degree, qualified for admission to practice, and actually practiced law in the UK, I do not believe NY would let me sit for the bar. The person in question was admitted to practice in the UK, presumably after completing the requisite "vocational" training. Furthermore, U of L offers attendance as well as DL degrees. As other portions of the malet.com site disclose, a residential U of L LL.B. is accepted by the NY bar, while the identical DL degree is not. It is possible, under 520.14 (same web address as before) to apply for a waiver of the rules. I have never heard of anyone with a DL degree only, and no practice experience, getting a waiver. I would like to hear from anyone who has obtained such a waiver. I'm currently in my 3rd year of a CA correspondence JD program. Realistically, I do not expect to qualify to sit for the Bar anywhere except California, without full-time practice experience. Christopher
Nope. Note that 520.3 (c) says and an "approved law school is defined as: So part (c) is only addressing study in ABA approved schools (the ABA allows some very limited DL study AFAIK, if it forms a minor part of the degree) 520.6 discusses foreign legal study and has no such requirement: While the first part requires the "duration" of the program to be equivalent to the US programs, english common law basis, qualified law degree in the jurisdiction where the degree was awarded, (b) 1 (ii) states: note that no admission to practice elsewhere is required (admission on the basis of practice elsewhere is listed as an alternative to 520.6 b 1 (i) and (ii) in 520.6 b (2). So as far as I can see, get the London degree (even the London Graduate degree which is 2 years full time for people who hold an undergrad degree already) then get an American LLM (contrary to what I've heard before, many top tier law schools cater to foreign LLBs in their LLM programs (Chicago for example) and you can probably take the NY bar.
Gerstl-- Interesting interpretation. If you are correct, and the correspondence limitation only applies to ABA and not foreign schools, one would still need a year of instruction in an ABA school. I would strongly urge anyone contemplating the course you recommend to get a written statement from the NY Bar affirming that doing so would qualify them to sit for the Bar, before investing 3 or 4 years of study. Christopher
This is kind of an old thread so I don't know if anyone will read this BUT I do have two observations: 1) I would recommend seeking an opinion from the state Bar Association before embarking on any but the straight ABA route; and 2) Most states do allow California lawyers to take the bar exam after from three to seven years of practice regardless of whether that state allows correspondence study. Texas is a notable exception.
But old threads move up to the top when there is a new posting. Intriguingly, a man named Herb Vest, Texas tycoon and very well connected in the Republican party, is currently involved, I believe, in legal action to try to require the state of Texas to recognize his California correspondence (Taft) law degree. (I was on Dr. Vest's Ph.D. committee at Nova Southeastern, and have great respect for things he seems able to accomplish.)
yeah...herb vest. looks like he does solid things for the community and entrepreneurship. "Principle is reflected in Herb's steadfast advocacy of education. Because he appreciates the power of education in contributing to his success-Herb has four master's degrees, a doctorate, a JD, and numerous licenses and designations-he desires to help those who have the ambition, if not the resources, to succeed. Herb has been active in supporting the YMCA, children's television, the Salesmanship Club of Dallas (which provides money to underprivileged children for educational expenses), area schools, and Southern Methodist University (SMU). He also initiated the Herb D. Vest Scholarship Program, which gives 20 $1,000 scholarships annually to high school seniors."
Mia, the London DL LLB degree is a 'qualifying law degree', giving exemption from certain stages of Legal Papers and Exams. Basically that means in the UK that this LLB is the same as any other LLB, whether it be from Cambridge and so on. And an LLB in the UK is the same as the JD in the United States, as has previously been explained on this forum. It is up to the individual school there of course, but a 'qualifying LLB Law Degree' from here would go a hell of a long way for Law school there. It's recognised more so because of the difficulty of the traditional LLB and in the UK, if you do a Law Degree (3 Years), you can then do 'Articles' (2 Years) and you are a fullt fledged Lawyer, just as qualified (though alot would argue that you would be more qualified) as those with a Doctorate in Law from a Law school in the US (due to, as mentioned, a JD there being no higher than a LLB here) If you want to practice Law, you should think about a change in course, due to the unaccreditation of yours. Nevertheless, as a degree, it's worth keeping it going and is not totally useless. It all depends on how far you want to take your career path in Law? That address that Bing gave is a good one to check out. Hope this helps Cheers Dan
I think I know what school you are referring to. What that degree really qualifies you for is to sit for the bar in California. So, you could become an attorney in California. Some states offer what is called reciprocity. California, however, is its own planet, and its reciprocity scheme is convoluted.
Each state's laws are different, but it is particularly difficult for practicing California attorneys with non-accredited DL JD degrees to be accepted in some states (and impossible for others). Bears' Guide (14th) is a good starting source for information. But even the authors recommend one gets the current ABA rules regarding taking the Bar in each state. Rich Douglas
