Any Update on Touro

Anyone have any update info on Touro (I looked at their site and MSA but could not find anything).

I realize that the probability is that they will come out of the situation fine since they are relatively good size and have a medical school and law school, etc but since my joyous experience and narrow escape from ACCS (prior to ship sinkage)........I am leary.

North

 

Apparently, there is no news about Touro's accreditation battle.
I just recently received an e-mail from them saying that their PhD programs are at capacity and not accepting any new students. Said to check back in a few months.

North

 

According to the Middle States accreditation web site, a decision will be taken this June. We are still in June. Touro is not going away any time soon. A college with a law school, medical school, Physician Assistant School, with campuses in at least three countries is not going to fold away and disappear overnight. That makes its online branch campus as solid as a rock.

I once had responsibility as a hospital accreditation specialist. Hospitals experience similar type of things and you don't hear about it and even when you hear of some it does not and it should not stop people from going to that hospital.

If anything, it should be positive for Touro.


oko.

Disclosure: I am a Touro Health Science doctoral student. My association with Touro has no influence in my statement. I am a fan of accredited college preferably a regionally accredited college period.

 

Godwin:

I am still unacquainted as to why Touro University International would not seek regional accreditation from the Western Association of Colleges and Schools (WASC). TUI is in actual fact a West Coast institution. Although it is a branch college of Touro College (TC), it's nonetheless bigger than its main campus. Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools (MSA) lists Tuoro College as a master’s college but TUI (a branch campus of TC) offers (or used to offer) several doctoral programs. If they had applied to WASC, I am inclined to believe that accreditation will be granted. TUI programs are perhaps solid but I don't think that MSA is very happy with TC’s current arrangement with TUI (This is a speculation anyway).

 

Probation is never a good thing, but perhaps a good "learning experience", excuse the pun.

 

Han! Han! Han!


On a serious note, I have to say that I concur completely. Another issue is that TUI appears to be deceitful about their current predicament. Why would they continue to tell prospective applicants that their doctoral program is at full capacity, even when the truth appears to be (from all indications) that they are not allowed to accept new doctoral students by MSA?

 

Ike,

So, "they are not allowed to accept new doctoral students by MSA", doesn't that mean they are at full capacity? If MSA is limiting the number they can have in the doctoral program and they are at that number they are "at capacity". I see no "deceit".

But who am I to argue with a PhD?

 

I agree with Ike on this one. The day the announcemnent came out about probation, they stopped accepting applications, and have never started again. Several (some on this board) had their applications in with them, and it seems that everything has been halted..... They say they are at capacity, but I think it is not a far streatch to think there is something else going on.

 

All these speculations about Touro are nonsense. Again, I have done accreditation for hospitals and most hospitals including the one you probably go to have one or two things to fix almost always and probation or conditional accreditation is always a way accrediting bodies get the attention of administrators to make changes - sometimes- needed changes. Some of the changes often have nothing to do with quality.

Ike, I have no way of knowing why Touro campuses in California did not seek accreditation from WASC except to say that it is not illegal or unusual for a branch campus to be accredited with a parent body. The ultimate responsibility for managing TUI and Touro School of Medicine rests with Touro College, New York. MSA reports on TUI and the College of Medicine is pretty specific. They have few things to fix and I trust they will fix it. Why the fuss?

True, MSA listed TUI as branch campus of Touro. They listed Touro as a Master awarding institution but they also listed Touro as s Doctoral awarding institution as well making me to think MSA may have made typo error. Check the web site again.

AACSB listed Greenoble as accredited for Masters -MBA - only but there are those that think that includes the doctoral program. The last time I checked, the web site was specific and listed Greenoble as accredited for Master level MBA NOT the doctoral. My point here is accrediting bodies do make mistake including AACSB.

I am getting a great education from TUI. I love the Professors who are first class quality against any school - I MEAN ANY SCHOOL. The quality of students at least in my program is also first class. These are cream of the crops in their professions. Touro’s probation status is inconsequential as long as they are taking steps in correcting them. As at today, Touro is accredited - period. Until they lose their accreditation which is VERY UNLIKELY, I have no reason to be concerned. They will overcome whatever it is they need to fix and all these speculations will be moot.

Only Touro can explain why they chose to locate what I may call their flagship branches away from New York to California.

TUI has great faculty, excellent live class delivery system, first class response rate from professors; incredible rigor in their program which I think may be excessive because I am putting too much time forcing complaints from my wife. A complaint from my wife was the last straw that has now forced me to register one class only per session for the remaining part of this year. I cannot afford to lose my wife for a doctoral program. My target is to finish the course work within two academic years and the face dissertation.

Accreditation body can recommend slow growth. TUI doctoral program was incredibly successful in its short history. In order to maintain quality and rigor growth must be controlled to maintain student/professor ratio comparable to similar program in other schools. TUI is not falsifying information by stating they have reached their capacity. They have for now and they are placing people on waiting list. Why wait on a list? If I were looking for school, I won’t wait I will simply move on to another school as long as it is regionally accredited. At the end of the day, it is not where you went it is how you perform. If you went to Ivy League and you are not performing, you will get fired in my work environment. There is only one advantage in attending an Ivy League school – the initial break and contacts. Once you get past that the sky is the limit for everyone. Studies after studies ( I have posted a couple on this board in past) have shown that at the end of the day graduates of Ivy League and none ivy league schools on average make essentially same amount of pay with ivy league edging out about $10,000 more. In some professions, the non ivy graduates actually make more. Gosh- Only in America. All the talks about tiers, top 20, top 50 AACSB, ICABE and others I read on this board are meaningless as far as my friends, family and I are concerned. US News and World report is ill equipped to rate schools. They are also ill equipped to rate hospitals which they do as well. They do these ratings to sell papers. You can’t possibly rate schools and certainly, you can’t rate hospitals either.

oko

Disclosure: I am a doctoral student at TUI. My comments have nothing to do with my association with Touro. If I felt the school was delivering a bad education, I will vote with my feet.

 

Han and Ike, you have reached your capacity when you are told to slow growth or when you are told to correct certain issues before you continue admission. Every school has passed through this process. There is nothing wrong with being told to slow growth in order to maintain quality. These accrediting bodies’ looks out for the students just like hospital accreditors look out for the patients. Humans are greedy. If Touro is perhaps not told to slow growth, they may keep on admitting to a point they probably could not handle if not correspondingly matched with growth in faculties and staff.

 

My guess is that WASC would be less likely to accredit a DL-only school (as a separately accredited TUI would be) that offers 100% non-resident doctorates. That's why North Central University had to move to Arizona.

I'd speculate that's one the primary reasons why Middle States is concerned.

Touro College is/was a small and obscure New York City school. Somehow it budded off what in effect are entirely new universities clear across the country in California: Touro University International and a major development at the former Mare Island Naval Shipyard which includes historic 19'th century buildings and which is rapidly growing into a new full-service university that's now calling itself Touro University California:

http://www.tumi.edu/

While all of this ambitious growth is admirable in one sense (Touro is probably the fastest growing private university in the United States), it's all being done with Middle States substantive change procedures. Procedures that are normally used to add a new degree program to an existing college are being used to open what in effect are entirely new universities thousands of miles away that dwarf the parent institution.

Some might argue that this kind of stuff is an abuse of the substantive change process. There are probably concerns whether the procedures allow MSA to properly monitor all of this activity. And WASC probably resents the big-time intrusion into its territory and may well have complained.

I'm just guessing, but MSA might tell Touro to get TUI and TUC separately accredited by WASC. If that ever happens, TUC will probably have few problems, but TUI might have to change its format quite a bit.

 

Wouldn't be cheaper to move to New York? If WASC is complaining about this, TUI can easily move to NY since all the students are DL learners and the place wouldn't be a main issue.

I believe the issue is about the doctoral program. Perhaps they will change it to make it a bit more rigorous in order to avoid future problems with MSA. I noticed that the MBA is a lot more rigorous that it was before, some of math and finance courses that used to be optional are now mandatory.

I would like to see the PhD program with some majors instead of the general business PhD that they presently offer.

 

I might be wrong, but I believe that AACSB only accredits at the master's level.

 

TUI is on probation for performance issues, as I read in the report, not growing too quickly. I understand your passion about the program, especially if you are having a good response, but I think it is not correct to say "If anything, this should be a positive for TUI".

Hopefully they resolve this soon.

 

On a side note, I always thought Ike and Oko were the same person..... I know now, this is not the case.

 

Han, how do you know that Touro is on probation for performance issues? Performance on what? You are simply making a wild guess and you are incorrect. Why don't you just read all about it on MSA web site or call them for update. You can obtain any school accreditation status from an accrediting body. If you have bothered to read the document you would have found out that TUI, TUC and the parent campus all have issues to clear with the MSA. Of the three, TUI has the least. Change is hard to take. Those who are opposed to DL education use hospitals every day. Most of today's continuing education credits are done through DL, there is Telemedicine - that is DL - a doctor and a patient could be hundreds of miles apart and diagnoses are made. I wish I could tell you more of what DL medium are used for today for Americans in certain parts of society but I am constrained.

I am not sure that TUI is bigger than its parent school which has its law school on its main campus. Again - I know enough of accreditation process albeit hospitals not to be concerned for administrative procedures.

Even if it was performance (and it is not), it still would not bother me one iota because I know what I am getting having obtained all my degrees from B&M, I should know a good school when I see one. Unnecessary speculations are unhelpful at this time since we are not educational accreditors, it is best to allow MSA to do their work. In the mean time, I continue my studies full speed ahead.

At the end of the day after obtaining my degree, I should be able to compete with any one with similar background and experience from any where. I have already demonstrated that with non ivy league credentials.

Disclosure: I am a doctoral health science student at Touro.

 

No Han, Oko and Ike are not one and the same. You see; that is why speculation is not always a good idea. We are originally from the same country.

 

TUI enhancement

Hi Everyone:

After reading your posts I think some of everyone’s thoughts and theories are correct. TUI did grow incredibly fast with its Ph.D. program. Primarily, from its innovative and flexible delivery programs. As a current Ph.D. learner at TUI, I know first hand the fine support and encouragement of the faculty and fellow students. But, whether whatever the issue the school entered probation status, TUI has made huge changes in the Ph.D. program. They have enhanced the research classes tremendously and designated certain courses as research oriented, they have added a number of new Ph.D./research qualified faculty to the program, and they have added more stringent grading and proficiencies to the courses. I feel all of this added to the previous rigorous and quality programs TUI offered. I’m sure the accreditation will be continued.

 

Re: TUI enhancement

Good to hear they made some changes, hopefully it will get them out of probation status, as I remember, this waws the program targeted in the report for changes.

I always have heard good things from their students. I don't see them losing it, butif the parent does, does anybody know how long it will take some time to make the transition to their own accreditation?