Trinity's Doctoral Programs

I thought it would be helpful to look at the information from Trinity's catalogue itself.

We can all say a doctoral program should contain such and such to be up to an arbitrary certain standard. That is why Bricks & Mortar schools can look at distance learning doctorates and call them inadequate, American PhD programs (extensive debate here at one time) can look at research doctorates and complain about adequacy of intereaction, etc. I remember the PhD's programs I looked at in Canada (years ago) appeared a little more exacting than some I have seen in the US, etc. There are always counter arguments.

So what are the Trinity Doctorates attempting (specifically the DA):

DA is to produce scholar-practioners (academic and professional Emphasis applied to ministry)

****Page 28 Says The D.A. is distinct from the ThD and PhD where emphasis is on research and languages, which trains research scholars and university level educators.

DA in Biblical Studies (page 57 of catalogue):
(note there are doctorates in Conflict Mgt etc but this one seems to be the one exciting some folks)

Purpose: Designed for those who are desirous of becoming scholars and education leaders in various fields of Christian ministry.

Learning Competencies:
i) Acquire an enhanced understanding of the nature and contents of biblical books.....
ii) Masters basic biblical issues associated with the background, chronology, interpretation, and theology of selected protions of scripture.
iii) Compare carefully the various interpretative options in regard to the message, literary features, and themes of various biblical books....
iv) Will analyze key themes and charactersitics within various biblical books and explain their significance for Old and New Testament theology.

Unit One

Biblical Theology of Chrisitan Education: In Depth Analysis
Comparative Analisis of World Views
Assessing and Applying Appropriate Teaching Strategies
Doctor of Arts Professional Learning Agreeement (no credit)
Contemporary Biblical Hermaneutics
On Line Research and Communication
Preliminary Examination

Unit Two

Issues in New Testamant History
Extended Readings in Old Testament
Extended Readings in New Testament
Comparative Studies in Old Testament History
Electives in Biblical Studies (6cr)
Biblical Studies Qualifying Exam (no credit)

Research Unit

Bibical Studies/Theology Internship
Biblical reseach Methods for the Doctoral Student
Doctor of Arts Dissertation
Comprehensive Assessment (no credit)

-Apparently it does what it is designed to and received candidacy. It is silly to become overly excited trying to fit the doctorate program into a mold it was not designed for. I guess it was designed for what they chose it to be designed for and accomplishes that.

North (who for the record is not enrolled at Trinity)

 

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Neither did the TTs PhD in Bible in 2001 require the Biblical languages!!--



Are you saying that Trinity is saying that

1) one can be a Biblical SCHOLAR

2) and have an ENHANCEDunderstanding of Scripture

3) and be thoroughly prepared to teach Scripture at a UNIVERSITY

but have no ability to use the best tools for Biblical research, interact with the difficult concepts, and not even meet the language requirements of a little old Mdiv from most evangelical seminaries? North a Western MDiver can do MORE that a TTS DAer!! Right and Liverpool means unparalled excellence too! Man---all you pastors, pack your bags, were all goung to be UNIVERSITY SCHOLARS---hahahaha!

North, do you yourself REALLY believe this horsepucky??



Bill (who for the record will still like North even if he goes to Trinity)

 

I am saying that apparently Trinity's program does what it sets out to do what it was designed to do and that is why it got candidacy.

"DA is to produce scholar-practioners (academic and
professional Emphasis applied to ministry)

Page 28 Says The D.A. is distinct from the ThD and PhD where
emphasis is on research and languages, which trains
research scholars and university level educators. "

Maybe you should suggest to them that they reorient their program to meet your requirements. They might appreciate that.

Doctoral programs are designed to do certain things. Do I think that Steve's PhD in Religion and Law gave him exhaustive knowledge about either subject. Not on your life. But did he earn a PhD in an area he was interested in and designed his program around...sure.

You are an expert in biblical languages (and hair splitting). You could out pace most seminary educated pastors I know with regard to biblical languages. More power to you...I am sincerely impressed. But...why become upset over a doctoral program doing what it is designed to do even if it is not what you think it should be designed to do

It is not a ThD nor does it make claims to be. My best advice is that if it will not meet your needs then.....don't enrol.

North (not enrolled either but would if it accepted GI Benefits)

 

Consider this post in the largest screaming all-caps known to the race.

It's not a real DA. No pedagogical element. No design for community college and undergrad teaching. No differentiation between DA diss and, say, course+diss PhD diss. Check the NDAA website if you wanna know what I mean.

(Back to normal font size and capitalization)

And they're still corrupt.

 

North

I'm not upset. We are not the issue! Trinity does not do what it says it does. That program will not make scholars!

But, I give up at least for now. You may say whatever you will. You just will NOT believe that it is not personal with me. It just CANNOT be ,IYO, that I justifiably think that ANY doc in Bible should be rigorous.

So, go on and believe, and go on and spread whatever you will. I neither will enroll nor will criticise you if you do.

 

Eis polla eti, Beel. I kiss you hand.

 

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without passion there is no progress

 

Good God almighty Bill. A little obsessive aren't we hmmmmm....
It verges on being a rather ridiculous myopic obsession.

I have pointed out reality to you in terms of Trinity's program, and possibile criticism of other programs. This has been going on for ever in regard to DL programs as a whole in terms of what they purport to accomplish especially in comparison to their B&M counter parts.

I think I put more faith in the PhD's from the Regional Accreditor in determining whether Trinity's prgrams measure up than your views. You are an intelligent guy, probably could do well in designing a doctoral program. Trinity states what it is designed to do and that is that...apparently ti does it. If it added languages you would then find something else to pick at.

It is a doctorate not even a PhD or a ThD just a doctorate in either Religious Studies or Arts.

Whumppp.....Whummmppp....Whummmppp........ the carcass of the dead horse you keep beating is getting mighty thin.


North

 

Bill my friend,

Complain about ad hominem if you like. You are master of the *innocent* ad hominem (witness several of your posts to others),

Comparison of TTS's DA to others?? So what! Doctorate is designed differently. I am not sure that Steve's PhD in Religion & Law would stand up to comparison to other PhD's in Religion or in Law from Bricks & mortar schools. Would your DTh? Let's compare yours to Dallas Theological Seminary equivalent doctorate. Bill...homey...they are doctorates all of them desgined to meet requirements determined by the school and the standards of their regional accreditors (or international equivalent).

What do you call a graduate of Trinity after it becomes accredited ......"Dr." (with an RA doctorate no less). What will I call you with your DTh ......answer="Dr.".

I am not going to engage you in debate about Trinity anymore. I am not enrolled...you are obsessed..enjoy it. It is your hobby....bueno suerte. I bet in church when someone mentions the Trinity your blood pressure goes up.

As I have mentioned before, I have tremendous respect for your intellectual prowess. You enjoy debate and I have seen you fire questions on this forum before in lawyer like fashion as you lay out seven or 10 things you demand the other person answer. You are a bright man.

Actually, I am considering Touro U as I have to use up VA Benefits.

The point is now moot as far as I am concerned and as far as my discussion with you (on Trinity) mute

North

 

North, why keep bringing in Levicoff's PhD as a comparison point for TTS's so-called DA? There happen to be received standards for the DA degree deriving ftom its recent and artificial development. TTS is not even in the ball park. They're offering a kind of PhD lite and falsely calling it a DA. Bill spelled out very thoroughly what a real DA entails.
I'd rather you'd get the DRS which iirc Jimmy Clifton has started at TTS. I'm not sold on the degree at all, but it's sui generis and the only question of corruption is whether or not it "deserves" to be called a doctorate,* not whether the product being sold as goat meat is actually filet of rat.
At the risk of hurting your feelings, which I don't want to do, after your experience at ACCS, where you can't even get your lousy diploma piece of paper, why would you go with a school which still ONLY has candidacy and where even its defenders must admit that doctoral programs come and go and get replaced with the tides and seasons?
Or shaky Touro?
If it were me, the hairbreadth escape would have worn thin by now.







*yes, if, say, a DMin does

 

Hey Unk.,

I figure Touro has little likelyhood of losing RA. It is a bricks & mortar school with a osteopathic medical school (IIRC), and on and on. Kind of like Nova losing RA. I expect they will come out of it.

As for the diploma...I sure hope to get it some day. You do not hurt my feelings. Part of what makes me leary of Trinity or any candidate school is my experience with ACCS.

Incidentally, I know a guy at work who earned his doctorate through U of Phoenix. Some other higher ups were joking that since he was getting a PhD.com maybe U of P would just e-mail him an icon so he could print out his own diploma. Unfair joke..maybe but it was cute.

North

 

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Fine! Spoil my fun! I'll go harass Russell then

 

Actually, I did enroll, submit one unit, and began working on three major papers.

As I looked ahead, I saw I would be writing major papers for the next two-three years. Each course would have required about three to four major papers.

I have written a total of more than 80 papers at GSST and CCHS. I am tired, I am exhausted, I am literally spent.

So, I attempted to withdrew but TTS told me they would just place me on an inactive list that could be reactivated whenever I chose.

I will not reactivate. I had to take a long, hard look at myself and all the time, energy, and monies invested in GSST and CCHS. I also had to question the benefit of a DRS.

What could a DRS, besides having an RA doctorate (if TTS received RA, that is) actually do for me? I am currently successful as a pastor with a church that continues to grow and I have been successful as a psychotherapist.

The time, energy, effort, and money are not worth it to me at this juncture in my life especially with escalating bills due to my wife's recurring medical problems.

So, I will just have to be satisfied with an RA bachelor's, an NA master's, and a state-approved/licensed doctorate.

 

Thanks for the update, Jimmy. Best wishes on your wife's health. I can certainly understand academic weariness and just wanting it all to go away. My break with my old doc program years ago occurred under circumstances vaguely analogous to yours. I too put my family's health first. I didn't regret that choice. You won't regret your choice either.

My point stands that the TTS DRS--mostly since it's sort of a homemade doc offered only by unaccredited schools, unless TTS actually does get RA--is at least a real thing of its kind, while the TTS DA just is not a real DA, judged by the "industry standards" (which really do exist) for the doctor of arts degree.

 

Thank you for your kindness, Uncle Janko. She goes in for surgery on the 22nd. Would appreciate everyone's prayers, thoughts, and meditations.

 

Greetings to all,

I thought I would weigh in on this discussion, since I am a student of Trinity College of the Bible.

I just got off the phone with one of my academic adivsors at Trinity and I asked her why the Doc of Arts in Bibical Studies did not require the study of one or both of the Bibical langauges?

Her answer was this, "Trinity allowed each student to personally specialize his/her Doc program to meet their owns needs, depending on how they were going to use their degrees and what type of ministry the Lord would lead them to."

If one was going into a major research ministry, the study of the of Hebrew or Greek would be a must!

However, with that said, this is about to change!

She also said, "That because Trinity is seeking/going for RA accredation, Trinity will be at some point in the near furture will be raising the bar (so to speak) of the Doc level degrees and making it mandatory to study at least one of the Bibical langauges of the Hebrew or Greek." Which is probably a good thing?!

I know some people still might not like Trinity, but they seem to be up grading their programs in the right direction!!

________________________________________
Rich "is" enrolled in Trinity, and I hope no one dislikes me?! hahaha!!

God's blessings to all,

Rich Hartel
A.A. in Theological Studies, Triniy College of the Bible (present)