Is there a Conspiracy in American Online Engineering Education?

Did you ever wonder why their is a lack of online Baccalaureate level engineering programs in the American education system?

Do you think that other countries are developing substandard engineering programs or is their a problem with the American engineering education system?

 

Yes

 

Online Engineering Degrees

See my website article "Low Tech Engineering Education For Americans" for my perspective:

http://www.angelfire.com/de3/electronicbsdegree/

 

I have an undergraduate chemical engineering degree. I can't see how such a degree program could be completed online since it required so much hands-on lab work.

 

How it can be done.

At home chemical kits, interactive computer simulation, video demonstrations, and live two way teleconference instruction can all be used together to create an effective lab environment.

 

Re: How it can be done.

The infrastructure required to do electrical engineering is likely to be very costly. Some (many?) EE programs give students the chance to design (and fabricate) integrated circuit chips. In my experience, circuit simulation is an invaluable design tool, but not a replacement for the headaches of resolving the remaining problems of a board which had looked fine in simulation. And, as with chemical engineering, there are serious safety (and liability) issues.

G

 

A local community college can host lab settings for the many university programs.

Short duration on-site labs can also be used to supplement activities that are found ill-suited for alternative methods of delivery.

 

And whilst a specialist engineering degree will need some residential component do do the labs, there's nothing stopping anybody setting up a general engineering degree. Over here, the Open University's BEng and MEng undergraduate courses are accepted as qualifying degrees for Incorporated and Chartered Engineer status and were designed in consultation with the Engineering Council and the Institutions, so they can hardly be described as substandard.

Angela

 

I think one of the major problems would be its (high) cost. To set up those labs could be very expensive, specially in areas like chemical or materials enginering. It would be much more complicated than to prepare a course in Freshman English to put an example. But, as Angela pointed out, I don't see a reason why a program in Industrial or General Engineering couldn't be completed online.

Cordial Greetings

 

In maetallurgy and material science, the setting up of the test sample and doing the prep work is as critical as actually doing the tests. The equipment for a simple stres test can cost over $1,000,000 whihc way beyond most comunity colleges.

The general lab courses (chemistry, physics, etc.) can and are avialbe through the community colleges. but the specialty advanced labs require very special equipment and personnel to set up and maintain. This is where the problem starts occuring.

IMO one of the reasons you do not see more undergrad DL enginering programs is that there is not a high demand for them which there is for the graduate level. The grad level engineering courses I have ben taking have between 10 and 15 DL students (Colorado State requires a minimum of 7 DL students to offer a course). Show a school that they can have 10+ students in a DL course on a regular bsis and they will offer it.

 

Re: Online Engineering Degrees

I noticed you listed UF in your article and that it's taking forever. From what I've heard around campus (I'm a UF student now) the problem is with the ABET certification. They won't approve a 100% DL Engineering program.

 

Conspiracy or Old Fashion Superstition

edowave,

That doesn't surprise me. We all loose with narrow minds and big pockets in education.

ABET probably thinks computers are the work of the devil too.
We have people driving horse-&-buggies running our education.

 

Foreign Engineering Accreditation

Tell the UF officials to get an UK Engineering Council (EC) accreditation from the Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE) or Institution of Electrical/Electronic Engineers (IEE).

They have a regional accreditation, they don't need ABET.

Think outside the box.

Paul

 

Re: Conspiracy or Old Fashion Superstition

Interesting thought... ABET does accredit Computer Science programs so I doubt if they believe computers are the work of the devil.

Want to make an impact in this area??? Become active as an ABET volunteer program evaluator. It may just give you a whole different perspective.

Dick

 

Doubt it

And then again...

it might not knowing about the University of Florida's program.

How long do these guys need to drag ABET through the pastures to get some action?

See "Edowave" above.

ABET had a wonderful impact on other universities too. If you would like a list I can E-mail it.

 

Compromise

ABET caved in on computer science because they were being undermined by the IT programs. They had to compromise because they would loose to large of the market share if they didn't.

This is different from being the pioneering leader.
This is how I see it.

Now let's talk about the "EE" ABET/EAC distance education baccalaureate level electronic programs.


How many can you name of them?

 

Re: How it can be done.

No, I don't believe that one could become a competent chemical engineer in this way.

You can't do organic synthesis experiments at home. (At least not safely!)

You can't run experiments on the common unit operations (chemical reactors, distillation columns, condensors, solvent extractors, centrifuges, mills, ...) at home. And community colleges don't have facilities of this type.

I don't see short-term labs as a solution, since the lab work is very extensive. Though perhaps you could condense the lab work into three intensive on-site semesters (e.g. during the summer of successive years). Or maybe two on-site semesters -- with the general chemistry labs done previously at a local college.

 

maybe it just won't work

Not all subjects lend themselves to distance learning. An example would be a discipline with a significant studio/performance component: dance comes to mind.

I think some areas of engineering are also impractical to do via distance learning. And it's difficult to imagine a community college (already suffering from budget cuts) deciding to invest in equipment that is not used by its own students (who are taking the first two years of engineering classes) in order to serve the needs of a small number of third/fourth year distance learning students living near the community college.

G

 

Oxpecker

Oxpecker,

Oh come on, you don't have a centrifuge in you basement? I thought everyone did. I made one out of pop cans and duct tape and spun my cat up to 5 g's.

You are correct the chemical engineering would be one of the least likely candidates.

 

I don't think there is a problem with American engineering education. I think the nature of engineering doesn't fit DL very well. As has been suggested, certain fields seem to fit DL better.

There are graduate programs in engineering - but undergrad? I don't think we'll see it, at least not ABET accredited professional programs.

As I think about it, the following fields seem to be non-DL friendly:

1. Engineering - labs are the key. Simulation may offer some hope, but how do you simulate a wind tunnel, chassis dyno, etc.?

2. Architecture - studio time is the key. Students spend endless hours under the eyes of a faculty member.

3. Medical fields and clinical psychology - clinical time is the key here. Want to go to a doctor for surgery that hasn't ever seen examined a patient with a skilled physician observing before? How about dealing with a psychologist that hasn't had supervised clinical time?

Regards - Andy