Most Rigorous PhD

On a more useful note, which institution offering a PhD with at least some distance learning component is the MOST rigorous program? Does this program enjoy wide acknowledgement for that rigor or is it just your opinion? For the sake of argument, assume we are talking about a PhD in Business Administration.

 

PhDs from brick and mortar institutions are more likely to be more rigorous than the ones from virtual universities for obvious reasons.

 

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What obvious reasons are those?

 

Since a PhD is mainly a research degree, the "rigor" depends a large part on what the subject is, and who is on your graduate committe.

 

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Most of the virtual schools are for-profit. Is in their best interest to graduate people the fastest they can.

Shorter periods of study are one of the stongest point that the "for-profits" use to attract students. Compare the typical one year MBA part time at a virtual university vs. the 3 year part time MBA at most of the state schools. Also, compare a prestigious DBA from Manchester University that takes a minimum of 8 years part time vs. the 3 year part time at NCU or Capella.

 

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I am not sure I completely agree. As a part of my own doctoral process, I researched and purchased eight dissertations covering related research to my own. Also, these were dissertations that used relatively similar research methodologies. In the process, I reviewed many more than I purchased. After hearing and reading all the talk of brick and mortar rigor, I was surprised at what I found in doing my dissertations research.

The single best example of what I saw to be far more norm than you would expect was a 45 page case study dissertation from a BM that was a primary state university. If you know about research methodologies, you know those using qualitative as opposed to quantitative protocols are typically of significant length. This particular dissertation had no quantitative aspect to it at all. It was really quite shocking and an eye opener for me. I found many similar examples. At the time, I recall thinking that if any of those that I noted as being of questionable quality had been posted to degreeinfo and identified as coming from a distance based institution, they would have been fodder for the antagonists and presented as further proof of the lack of rigor when compared to brick and mortars. It did not appear to be anecdotal as the example s were plentiful.

My research reinforced to me that the notion that a brick and mortar inherently carries greater rigor is not true. Of course there are many BM schools that have very high consistent rigor.

Keep in mind that most distance based universities have faculty that either are now or were faculty at brick and mortars. My dissertation committee included the former dean of the School of Education at UMass (currently Eminent Professor of Education Reform at Old Dominion University), a current professor in Educational Psycology at Valdosta State University, and a former professor from the School of Education at Southern Illinois University. I cannot help but imagine that their many years of sitting on doctoral committees and reviewing doctoral candidates is what guides their decisions and recommendations, regardless of school affiliation.

 

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Which brick and mortar institutions are are talking about specifically that have a distance learning component of the PhD program?

 

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Did these B&M schools from which you found (in your opinion) sub-standard discertations have a distance learning component? Are you saying that the following is false:

By and large, discertations from B&M schools represent the result of academic rigor that is superior to most virtual universities.

 

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As I said, it is more "likely" but not the rule. Hard to say that 3 years of work while you hold a full time position would be the same as someone doing it for 6 years in the same position. I agree that private education can be more efficient but getting to a point when you can do the same in half of time it is to me "less rigorous" than the average BM school.

 

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Paul and all - a couple of observations:

1. Where do dissertation committee members come from for DL programs? Almost all are hired as adjuncts. In the B&M world, dissertation committee members are more likely to be full-time and to be actively involved in research in the candidate's area. Will a poorly paid adjunct devote the time a full-time faculty member will? Perhaps in some cases, but I suspect in many cases not.

2. Each of us pursuing DL education has a different experience. I reviewed other dissertations before writing mine. While students at some of the weaker RA schools may be closer in rigor to mine, when I compare what I did with similar work by a fellow at MIT there is no comparison. As a part-time student working 4-5 years, there is no way I can match what a full-time student will do in the same time.

My conclusion: On average, there is a significant difference between the rigor of dissertations written at top RA schools and those done at DL institutions.

This doesn't mean that DL grads haven't done credibile work. In my own case, UMI tells me that a number of folks have bought my dissertation. But lets get real - part-time programs fit a niche, but they aren't a perfect substitute for a rigorous full-time PhD program.

Regards - Andy

 

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DBA from Manchester University
DBA from Henley College
PhD from NJIT
DBA from NewCastle University


There are quite few schools if you look into this web site. A rigorous school would normally have:

-High requirements for entry (e.g. Many years of experience, research proposal, previous publications)
-On campus visits
-Proctored exams for course work
-External and internal dissertation examiners
-Full time faculty on their rosters
-Publication requirements for graduation


Some people would argue about "proctored exams". I have done pure online courses with some virtual universities and the time you put is not even close when you have to sit for an exam that requires you to study several books.

I would also think that even few visits on campus are necessary for a rigorous program, It is very hard to deal with some issues over the phone or by email specially at the research proposal stage. This also gives some credibility to the program.

Publication requirements are quality assurance that your work is at the doctoral level. If you manage to get published by any credible research journal it is sign that your work has passed some qualty assurance review and it has contributed to academia.


Full time faculty with decent salary pay makes a big difference. Most of the virtual schools use "rented faculty" that make only 1500 USD more or less for course given. Some schools even pay few thousand for dissertation supervision. You cannot get the same quality when you have a full time faculty member making a decent salary than one making only "few bucks" for being your supervisor.

 

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Actually, this is one of the weakest point of most of the virtual schools. Rented faculty is normally the case so they can use their names on the course catalog and give the impression to the student that they are getting top faculty. The problem is that part time faculty members normally make 1500 USD per course give or few thousand for dissertation supervised while they get 100K at their full time job with benefits. Would they give the same time
to their virtual courses as they do for their full time day job?

 

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OK, I thought you meant DL programs, I do not have experience with virtual schools, only DL programs at a B&M school, so I can argue with you (on this one!)

 

I think there are two discussion going on here, and a distinction needs to be made, when you say DL, which are you (you being everyone in the discussion) referring:

B&M Distance program.
Virtual school, with no B&M program.

RFValve - By your examples, I think you see rigour with the first, but not necessarily the second. I would tend to agree, especially with your descriptions.

 

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This is certainly not what I experienced at Nova’s Graduate School of Computer and Information Sciences (SCIS) where all dissertation committee members are expected to be fulltime Nova professors 95% percent of the time. As a matter of fact, all my dissertation committee members (three of them) are fulltime tenured professors at the Graduate School of Computer and Information Sciences. These individuals were professors who taught me a couple of courses and I knew them well before they became my committee members. Two of these professors wrote recommendation letters for me when I was applying for doctoral admission. Your experience is quite different from mine. Obviously, Wayne Huizinga School of Business has a different format/requirement. The professors at the Wayne Huizinga Business School are probably chewing more than they can swallow.

 

You may be right. It appears that two distinct discussions are going on here. Nova Southeastern University, for the most part, is a B&M university.

 

==

Not DL, not Bus Admin, but very rigorous.

http://www.tms.edu/dth.asp


entry requirements:

120 grad semester unit, (ie four years of grad work JUST to get into the ThD) , MDiv/ThM combo with a 3.5 grade average, the passing of five four hour exams in Bible knowledge, Hebrew, Greek, Theology, and Church History. German plus one other modern language also required.

Coursework :

3-5 years including a 250 page dissertation evidencing scholarly and original research.

Man o Man, as the site says, the program is not "dumbed down."

 

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Andy, do you think your dissertation would not be accepted at top B&M school? Why not? I'm sure it follows an established format, has comprehensive literature review, employs relevant research methodology and adds to your research area in a meaningful way - in short, meet all the requirements for a doctoral dissertation. Now dissertations from MIT might be stronger - those students have more time, more motivation, they are younger, very bright and have access to some of the best scholars in the world. But I'm not sure it's fair to describe their advantage as "rigor".

 

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Why not?

 

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Because I'm sure that average dissertation will also be accepted there (assuming it satisfies the requirements). It's just their students have better chance to produce an outstanding work.