I would like comments on Clayton University as it exists today. There are 2 websites: www.claytonuniversity.net & www.culhk.com What does affiliated with UNESCO through membership in the International Council of Open and Distance Education actually mean? Thanks.
What it means is the founder of Clayton University in Missouri moved his operation to Asia to sell degrees from Hong Kong. Yes, sell degrees. His school, once a pioneer in distance education, has devolved to this. The affiliation with the organization with the affiliation has no meaning academically. Clayton University was founded on some good ideas by some good people in the early 1970s. Originally called Open University, then American International Open University, it settled on Clayton University soon after. (Clayton is the name of a suburb of St. Louis). Dr. Stone's D.H.L. was awarded by Clayton University. Clayton was always a little bit shaky academically, and certainly had its critics. The local media did a couple of stories about the lack of facilities and insufficient faculty, but by no means was the Missouri Clayton University a diploma mill. In fact, they were briefly approved by the U.S. Department of Education (when such approvals of individual unaccredited institutions was still available). The did not, however, make much headway with their regional accreditor, North Central. Clayton's degrees were based upon satisfying defined competencies laid out in a learning agreement. Innovative in its day, common today. A harsh reality in nontraditional higher education is that there is a lot more money to be made selling degrees to Asians than there is in running a real nontraditional school. I've always felt that was the underlying business dynamic supporting the California Authorized schools in the 1970s and 1980s, and schools like Kennedy-Western and Century to this day. I think Clayton (or, more specifically, Eugene Stone)decided to go where the money is. In its current form, Clayton sells degrees to people who meet one or more of several professional memberships. It doesn't appear these "equivalencies" are academically sufficient to justify the award of a degree (bachelor's and master's, by the way). Also, there is ample evidence that degrees can be purchased outside these channels. Finally, if you look hard enough, you will find that Clayton will also award the doctorate. The academic process is a little hard to pin down, though. The last time I looked, Clayton was still listing its authority to operate in Missouri as the basis for doing all of this. But Missouri, once a haven for diploma mills, doesn't list Clayton University as one of the schools it licenses. (But it still tolerates the dreadful International University :mad Clayton doesn't appear to have anyone's governmental approval to operate, but they seem to be able to carry on just fine. There was a time when I was excited about Clayton University, especially when it gained "3I" approval from the USDOE. It was a heady time, with most of today's stalwarts not yet accredited (Walden, Union, Fielding) or not even established (Capella, Jones). It looked like Clayton might join those ranks. Instead, it just smells rank. Rich Douglas
If one was looking at Clayton for a potential degree, the wise comment would be: ABOOOUUUUUUT FACE! FOOORWAAARD MARCH! DOOUUBLE TIME! HUUT! LEFT, LEFT, LEFT! And don't stop until you find a credible program.
Clayton's websites both state "Clayton University now affiliated with UNESCO through membership in International Council of Open and Distance Education." ICDE has five types of membership: Educational institutions, Educational Authorities and Agencies, Corporations Individuals, and Honorary. Fees range from $100 (US dollars) for an individual membership to $5000 for an educational institution with more than USD 100 million budget. If you go to the ICDE website at http://www.icde.org/AboutICDE/AboutFra.htm and click on "The ICDE Net" button at the left, click on North America on the map, then click on USA ... you will not find Clayton among the links. I wouldn't put much weight on Clayton's statement. ICDE is a worthwhile organization, but membership in it is available to anyone who pays the fee. It doesn't mean that ICDE or UNESCO has in any way approved the member. ------------------ Kristin Evenson Hirst DistanceLearn.About.com
No, but I did find Clayton University in Asia at the Hong Kong link, which is where its website says it is.
Thanks, Rich. I have good reason for asking. I am one of those with a Master's degree from Clayton (Missouri), and I was able to get a GSL to pay for it. Now I am thinking about a doctorate and find my choices severely limited by an unaccredited graduate degree. I saw the *new Clayton* site and was sufficiently impressed with the UNESCO statement to question this group on what it means. Any suggestions (short of going back and getting another Master's) on a doctorate? BTW, I chose Clayton on a fair accounting of it in Bear's Guide, and due to the fact that they were one of the few (only?) distance schools that offered degrees in music. And the GSL availability didn't hurt none, either. Thanks again.
Perhaps you can find a program that will admit you without a master's, including foreign ones. Perhaps one of these will admit you on the basis of your Clayton degree. Or you could consider getting a second, accredited master's. I'm not familiar with programs in music, but a look through the current Bears' Guide should get you started. Be candid with potential schools about your Clayton degree, or omit any reference to it altogether. Just don't split the middle and tell half the story. Having a Clayton master's is not shameful thing. (At least it didn't used to be.) Nor is it a very useful thing when wishing to pursue a doctorate. I'm just sorry the memory of a "kinda good" nontraditional school is sullied by the current operation in Asia (which, IMHO, has no academic merit at all). Rich Douglas
I believe that the California Institute of Integral Studies accepts individuals into the Ph.D. program with a B.A. They offer kind of new age oriented degrees in several fields. They do have a distance learning option. http://www.ciis.edu North
Is the California Institute of Integral Studies accredited by a USDOE and/or CHEA approved(recognized?) association[sorry, don't have my copy of Bear's Guide w/me] I was interested in CIIS b/c someone mentioned that they accept ppl into their PhD programs w/ only a BA. Would the esteemed members of degreeinfo.com recommend CIIS? :0 ------------------ Sam C www.uci.edu UCI 2002 [email protected]
Oops! I meant: How do I find out for sure if CIIS accepts ppl into the Ph.D. program w/only a B.A.? ------------------ Sam C www.uci.edu UCI 2002 [email protected]
I looked at the website. They indicated that a master's in a closely related field was required. Alternatively, the student could complete their master's first. I didn't see anything stating an applicant could be admitted with only a bachelor's, but I guess you could try to negotiate it. Rich Douglas
A friend of mine completed her Psy.D. at CIIS last week. Five years of backbreaking work. (Yay, Aleka!). She had no Master's, only a Bachelor's (in poetry) from 20 years ago. I believe they gave her a Master's somewhere along the path, but she was definitely admitted to the doctoral program.
The short answer is to call them. Here is the link that says that those applying for advanced standing Ph.D. programs need an M.A. Otherwise it appears that a B.A. plus extra work is acceptable (eg. Dr. Bear's friend). I do not know if this applies to all of their Ph.D. programs or just some or whether it is negotiable. So, although I was joking above, you may want to call or e-mail them. http://www.ciis.edu/catalog/adminguide1.html North
