So, in my search for a doctoral program, one where I can do a dissertation on the subject that interests me(somewhat theological with a management bent), I came across IMC. They gave me a price of around $19,000 for their doctorate in management. I would like to solicit opinions from the forum regarding IMC and your thoughts regarding the total value here. Does this seem quite ridiculous based on what else is out there? I already know that most of the schools that are theologically oriented(the SA schools, except for SATS) won't accept me due to my Master's being in business rather than theology. $19K does not seem far from the price of a Touro program and more expensive than most of the Aussie schools I have looked at. Thanks, Bing
I had a delightful chat with a chap from the Canadian School of Management, which conducts distance learning programs that result in an IMC degree. He really emphasized the pragmatic approach they (CSM and IMC) take to one's doctoral studies, normally in the form of on-the-job projects leading to the dissertation. However, I am somewhat concerned about IMC's accreditation. To my understanding, they only meet GAAP because of their DETC accreditation. If so, this may render the credential less useful than those from schools meeing other GAAP criteria (especially U.S. regional accreditation). If you live in North America, I recommend discussing your options with CSM. I understand they also have an agreement with Southern Cross University (Australia), but I am waiting for details on that scheme. (Their word for an approach to a degree program; it doesn't have the negative tone we in the U.S. associate with that word.) www.c-s-m.org or http://www.c-s-m.net/imcass/VUs/CSM/frame.htm Rich Douglas
Rich, thanks for your suggestion. I have asked about the SC scheme, too. I have not received a response back. Maybe their degrees are no longer validated by SC. From what I understand, you get a fellow diploma from CSM, the doctorate from IMC, and possibly the doctorate from SC(after validation...whatever that means). I will keep you informed if I hear anything on the SC deal. Bing(one who found that being a programmer in the air force was a great deal of fun)
My conversation with them took place Friday, and I got an e-mail from them yesterday telling me more information about the SC scheme was on the way from the person at CSM that handled that. From what I was told, the SC scheme still involves getting an IMC doctorate, but that SC endorses it somehow. I think there is a different track to follow, and may or may not involve residency sessions somewhere in the Pacific. But, again, I await the details. (I wondered if I would get them, but that e-mail seems to indicate another will follow. Will see.) Yes, in all cases with CSM one earns their award ("Fellow" for the master's, "Post-fellow" for the doctorate) along with the degree from whichever participating school. There was a time when CSM was affiliated--and perhaps co-owned--with Northland Open University. NOU was supposedly locted in the Northwest Territory--and supposedly legal based upon almost non-existent territorial laws regarding higher education. NOU offered degrees (bachelor's through the doctorate) in business, either by independent study or through CSM. But it appears they never were actually located in the territory but, rather, were operating right there in Ontario. (If so, this was a dodge around the provincial authorities.) NOU dropped the doctoral designations for awhile, which seemed to take off the heat. They seem to still be in business, but are perhaps "flying under the radar" of Canadian officials. Rich Douglas
Further inquiry finds an interesting web page describing DETC's accreditation visit to IMC to accredit IMC's doctoral programs. One must first register on IMC's site, then page through to: http://www.i-m-c.org/imcass/VUs/IMC/frame.htm It isn't clear that DETC either accepted the doctoral programs or rejected them. But they had concerns about the DPhil and DLitt degrees being research-oriented and, therefore, not "First Professional" (practitioner) degrees. (This would put them out of the scope of DETC's accreditation.) IMC has agreed to drop the DPhil in favor of the DMgt. Also, the report says IMC is moving away from having its degrees validated by other schools (like Southern Cross, which validates IMC's DPhil as a DMgt) to a model where IMC simply awards its own degrees. But it does not have a Royal Charter to award degrees. IMC, according to the DETC report, hopes to award its doctoral degrees through the DETC-accredited University of Action Learning in Colorado. But the UAL isn't authorized in Colorado to award the doctorate. Even if it was, DETC would still have to bless it using their First Professional process (which itself hasn't been approved by the USDOE). Still, DETC sounded pleased and impressed with IMC's programs and professionalism. Seeing that DETC's doctorate-accrediting process is still in validation, it looked like quite a symbiosis happening between the two. Rich Douglas
I have had trouble getting registered on the site. When I register, the message appears that all required fields are not filled eventhough I have filled all those fields in. I'll try again today. This does sound interesting to say the least. The process is evolving there. If Southern Cross would be the validator then what would the pitfall be of just going straight to Southern Cross? More tuition maybe? Bing
I don't think Southern Cross would offer this program. In fact, they don't award the degree earned through IMC, they endorse its sufficiency. I'm not so sure that means a lot. When reading the DMgt description, it outlines a number of residency requirements, but doesn't talk about how/where they're met. I'm not sure if this is done in various locations, or on-line. I read further where DETC put off its application for approval to accredit doctoral programs, except first professional degrees. There is some doubt as to whether a DBA or DMgt falls under this category. These guys (along with CSM) can't seem to give a straight answer, nor put straight answers and other information into writing. It is all so typcial of dealing with schools in the British system worldwide. Rich Douglas
I would think that the MBA would be the first professional degree when looking at the DBA. And, some schools have DBA programs that actually have major papers due(even called dissertations). The DBA is fuzzy and confusing. However, when I mentioned just going straight to Southern Cross I particularly had the DBA program in mind. For me, I think the potential drawback for me, with regards to the DBA, is the emphasis possibility. The DBA is more course specific and many of these programs do not allow much interdisciplinary type maneuvering. Either general management, IT, or marketing. In other words, the business basics. I have not seen any DBA concentrations/specializations that deal with business ethics, although I could possibly frame a final paper with my bent if I went the general management route. Bing
Facts: IMC Tuition(DMgt) = 18,900 USD Validation from SCU = 1,890 USD Other IMC fees = 600 USD Total Program = 21,389 USD SCU Tuition for DBA = 21,000 USD SCU other Fees = 700 USD Total SCU DBA = 21,700 USD As you can see, the difference is basically nil. What you get with the DMgt is an IMC degree that says on it, "Validated by Southern Cross University". SCU provides some sort of certificate attesting to the fact that they validated this degree, too. It would probably be of greater benefit to go directly to Southern Cross and get the DBA degree. Bing
I'm not so sure. It seems like IMC awards the DPhil with Southern Cross awarding the DMgt upon its endorsement. I've posed this question--and several others--to the person who coordinates all of this with CSM. She's been great at getting back to me with detailed answers so far. I'll let you know. Rich Douglas
The DPhil/DMgt requires one "Intramural" with CSM/IMC. This can be done in a variety of locations, including Hong Kong, Colorado, and Toronto. Does the DBA directly from Southern Cross require residency? Rich Douglas
Uh, um, actually, it looks like this: The IMC will award a DPhil if the award is only from them. If it is to be validated by Southern Cross, then the DMgt is awarded instead. In that case, signatures of officials from both IMC and Southern Cross appear on the certificate. In essence, you earn one degree, but it's from both schools. Rich Douglas
Well, I can't blame us for being somewhat puzzled and even confused by this. IMC's website is not much help to be sure. I sort of got the impression from the e-mails and web pages that a separate certificate, not a degree, was awarded by SCU. From what you say, here is what you get: DMgt diploma with IMC and Southern Cross on it. DPhil if only with IMC. However, this is still confusing to me as I was told that IMC would grant the DBA if I went through CMS. Apparently, here are your possible options for a doctorate from this organization company: A) CMS Post Grad something or other and an IMC DBA. B) IMC DPhil. C) IMC and a SCU DMgt. Is this correct? Maybe there is another option floating around if we throw in Action Learning Center. Bing
