Trinity Theological Seminary (Newburgh)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by boydston, May 14, 2004.

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  1. boydston

    boydston New Member

    When I first found this forum I went back and read a lot (if not all) of the past posts that involved Trinity. Wow, this school seems to have generated more "ink" than any other thread (and raised Bill Grover’s blood pressure more than anything else).

    I, too, have been skeptical of the Trinity operation. The whole thing about equating the "endorsement" of a British university with "accreditation" soured me several years ago. And the whole ethos of their school gives me the creeps -- too cheesy -- appears too much like a diploma mill on the web. Too many faculty members have slicked-back hair and look like their last photos were taken in 1979. I watched their promo video and felt as though the people in it would be used car salesmen if they were not selling a school. I suppose that this means they are culturally distant to me.

    I suspect, too, that Trinity offers too many degrees to be focused enough to do their task well. I feel much more confident with the Moody Bible Institute's BS in biblical studies degree offered online than with all of the Trinity offerings.

    On the promo video they had a brief cameo of a lecturer. And he wasn’t very exciting. What troubled me as much as the fact that he was boring was that the school thought it was worth highlighting. There is some kind of disconnect there.

    I looked at their D.A. degree specs. I'm in the minority in that I really likes the idea of the teaching doctorate. However, the Trinity D.A. still looks more like an attempt to have a research doctorate. It's almost as though they don't quite understand the concept and that they kept their Ph.D. program – just changing the nomenclature to please the North Central Association.

    Having said all that, there are things about Trinity that I admire.

    1. They make theological education accessible and have been doing so for years -- way before most other American seminaries even thought such was possible. In that sense they are leaders.

    2. Some of the classes they offer actually look more rigorous than the school's online facade lets on. Someone who is motivated could receive a real education using the structures they provide.

    3. They seem to be moving in the right direction in terms of cleaning up their act. We need to give schools (and people) room to grow and change. I wish them well in their quest for RA.

    I suspect, though, that they are going to face some challenges from the more traditional seminaries -- which are slowly but surely embracing distance education. Once those schools get in the groove, their degrees will be worth more because their B&M programs add value by association. Trinity is going to have a run for its money.
     
  2. mhl

    mhl New Member

    boydston,

    Thanks for sharing your insights concerning Trinity. I, too, have gone back the last couple of days and read many of the previous threads concerning this school. And like you, I believe there are some good things about them, and there are also a lot of questionable/deceptive things that need to be corrected.

    Let me just ask you, all things being equal, as Trinity stands right now, would you enroll with them to pursue a Master's?

    Just wondering....

    Thanks!

    mhl
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    :eek: :eek: ;)
     
  4. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    I heard that Bill actually borrowed Michael Jackson's famous hyperbaric chamber to keep his blood below a boil.:D
     
  5. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Boydston: Their DA is not a standard-format DA. (I, too, am all for the "teaching doctorate".)
     
  6. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Naw, I already said several times what I see as the BAD and the good about TTS. Believe what you will.
     
  7. boydston

    boydston New Member

    Personally?

    No. It wouldn't be a good fit for me. But there are some people who don't need an accredited degree, who would fit well into Trinity's particular cultural and theological niche, and who can overlook the quirks and irregularities -- it might work well for them.

    I suppose you also have to ask yourself why you want a master's degree and what you intend to do with it.

    Aim high.
     
  8. Howard

    Howard New Member

    I would love to have an MDiv --- simply to move into a chaplin's role, but can you imagine a liberal, card tot'en, lliturgical presbyterian in their school. Would probably make some of that slicked-back hair kink!
     
  9. boydston

    boydston New Member

    What did you do to Jerry Falwell and friends’ hair at Liberty University? :eek:

    The main door into chaplaincy is Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE) which is not available via distance learning. (I assume you're referring to institutional chaplaincy.) An M.Div. would help someone get a job as a chaplain and may be required in some cases. But there are lots of exceptions made. A ministry related M.A. with a few units of CPE could get you a job (the Ph.D. would provide bonus points). While most of the major health institutions might hire someone without an M.Div. they're still going to require CPE. A few seminaries have programs of their own that attempt to match the CPE experience but most of the oldline seminaries go with CPE -- and some require it in the M.Div. curriculum.

    However, hospitals often require ordination in a recognized church, too. And an ATS accredited M.Div. is required for ordination in all the Presbyterian bodies with which I'm familiar. TTS would not likely be an acceptable institution.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2004
  10. Howard

    Howard New Member

    Hi Brad,

    1) The counseling program at Liberty only requires two religion courses; the counseling is pretty much unaffected by the department of religion.

    2) I am an ordained Cumberland Presbyterian Minister

    3) We Cumberland Presbyterian's have what is referred to as the Program of Alternate Studies for those who, for whatever reason, don't have the MDiv. I had two masters degrees when I applied for ordination and back then there was no DL MAR, MA/TH or MDiv's available.

    4) The Cumberland Prebyterian will allow any accredited graduate institution that is acceptable to the presbytery.

    5) I would like the MDiv to work in some hospitals in the area that require an MDiv and then the CPE. You are right, the CPE is necessary and can be taken apart from the MDiv but the institutions here still want the MDiv.

    Thanks for your input.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Trinity has had some ups and downs in the past. I too think they over did the U of Liverpool connection to sell the program.

    Do I think they probably have an academically solid program.....yes. First in spite of claims that the University of Liverpool & Cantebury sold out for $$$..... I find it highly improbable that either the University of Liverpool or Canterbury would put their name on something that was not solid acadmically. Second, Trinity has brought their program up to Regional Accreditation standards or they would not be candidates for RA. Their faculty are very well credentialed, they have a bricks & mortar campus, etc. I understand from someone taking courses that the courses and requirements are demanding.

    We need to remember that other distance learning programs got nailed as mills, etc early on in their history by the press etc (University of Sarasota, Union Institute). Capella was slammed by the Minn. Regents as a mail order school. NCU today has its detractors, and was Touro not answering to the accreditors (is it on probation).

    Did Trinity change nomenclature of its doctorate programs to appeal to the RA? I think that is highly likely as the revamping was done proir to application as I recall.

    One thing I do not like is Masters Divinity School. Looks rather connected. I guess somewhat like SCUPS/NCU. Except I guess SCUPS birthed NCU where Trinity birthed MDS.

    North
     
  12. mhl

    mhl New Member

    North,

    I think you and I probably feel basically the same way about Trinity.

    I believe I remember reading in a previous thread that at one time you were thinking about enrolling at Trinity -- or at least considering it. I may be wrong about that...

    But let me ask you the same question I asked boydston -- all things being equal, as Trinity stands right now, would you enroll with them to pursue a Master's?

    Thanks!

    mhl
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am not currently enrolled. I would consider it. You have basically a bit of a gamble. I think academically you will get a strong program, financially with tuition incentives they are very affordable. Now the gamble.......most schools that achieve candidacy with a RA go on to achieve full accreditation BUT that is not guarenteed. So you have a gamble.....you could end up with an inexpensive accredited doctorate (in my case) *or* an inexpensive unaccredited doctorate.

    Although, I managed to graduate in time with my ACCS degree to have an accredited degree..it was close & I am leary of jumping right in at the moment.

    North
     
  14. boydston

    boydston New Member

    Another option to consider is the Fuller DMin. It is now available for people with only an MA. You end up doing the equivalency work for an MDiv through the program (an additional 28 units) and then completing the doctoral work. And it is all field based and flexible (but it is not online). I bet you could do the CPE as a part of the DMin, too (independent study). There is a care and counseling track within the DMin.

    Any employer requiring an MDiv is going to accept a DMin.

    One of the admissions requirements is full-time professional ministry. But they've been somewhat flexible in defining what that means.
     
  15. Michael

    Michael Member

    Brad,

    Is there a required campus residency period?
     
  16. boydston

    boydston New Member

    Many DMin programs are field based degrees. That is, they have short-term and/or dispersed residency.

    In the Fuller program at least 12 units have to be taken on campus in Pasadena (a two week class).

    The DMin track for those with only an MA is a total of 72 units. Classes are taken in one or two week intensives which are offered at places around the US (and abroad!).

    My friend Kurt Fredrickson is offering me a bounty for everyone I get to apply -- so mention my name. (Just kidding -- not about Kurt but about his generosity) :)

    Their website has all the detail.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2004

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