Any thoughts on the quality/validity/usefullness of the Northwestern California School of Law LLM program?
Depends on what you want it for. If for personal knowledge or enjoyment, your mileage may vary depending on the quality of the school/courses/faculty. For just about all other purposes, a LLM is about as close to a vanity degree as you can get, and from a non-ABA, non-"name" school, it's virtually worthless as currency to get a job or enter academia.
The Schools reputation is well respected for an unaccredited school. If you plan to take its JD program I recommend it for it courses and cost. But if you want an ABA approved LLM program I would go with St. Thomas Law ( link below ) and although not ABA University of London External program is as good if not better than most law schools ABA or not ( link below ). Northwestern gives you an affordable and challenging education. http://www.stu.edu/lawschool/ http://www.londonexternal.ac.uk/ Regards,
Quoted by PAULLIU "A LLM from Non-ABA school has minimum utility per se." AS stated on ABA web site: "Standard 308 of the ABA Standards for Approval of Law Schools states that an ABA-approved law school may not establish a degree program in addition to its J.D. degree program unless the school is fully approved, and the additional degree program will not detract from a law school's ability to maintain a sound J.D. degree program. The school must obtain the Council's acquiescence prior to commencing such a program. The ABA does not formally approve any program other than the first degree in law (J.D.). ABA accreditation does not extend to any program supporting any other degree granted by the law school. Rather the content and requirements of those degrees, such as an LL.M., are created by the law school itself and do not reflect any judgment by the ABA accrediting bodies regarding the quality of the program. Moreover, admission requirements for such programs, particularly with regard to foreign students, vary from school to school, and are not evaluated through the ABA accreditation process. The ABA reviews post-JD degree programs only to determine whether the offering of such post-JD program would have an adverse impact on the law school's ability to maintain its accreditation for the JD program. If no adverse impact is indicated, the ABA "acquiesces" in the law school's decision to offer the non-JD program and degree." See more http://www.abanet.org/legaled/postjdprograms/postjd.html Regards
What makes this program interesting to me is that it is a reseach, thesis based LL.M. instead of a coursework LL.M. program like University of London. Utility? Quite limited. Nevertheless, definitely NOT a "mill". I am at last starting on the London program, final Spanish exam being the week after next. Once I finish, I might just do NWCalU's JSD.
You mean you would actually complete an unaccredited degree for reasons of personal satisfaction when you would not even consider taking an equivalent accredited degree. Best keep that our little secret.
Believe me, I am aware of the nature of the degree and have made no secret of my temptation to pursue it anyway. The reason is, there ARE NO accredited American D/L JSD programs, certainly none where I live. There are no D/L UK doctorate in law programs. I ask those who might question my judgment to remember that my AAS is DETC, my BA is RA, my JD is RA and ABA, and my LLM, once I complete it, will be both GAAP and prestigious. In short, I have no real NEED of a JSD as an academic or professional credential.
Let me explain further I don't need this degree for professional purposes. I am admitted as a practioner in the UK and have a BA and and LLB from UCL, so prestige isn't the issue. Lately I have been writing on various aspects of law that to date have not yet been enshrined in any formal body of work. So, my options are: 1) Write a book on the topic or 2) Write a thesis on the topic. Perhaps 2 can lead to 1 if you follow the logic. I've lookied into the London External Program having graduated from UCL, but I don't need a course based program. I have been in practice for nearly 15 years, so while I'll never stop learning, I'm not sure the courses will add much, so a thesis based program is what I require. As far as ABA accreditation goes, I care very little; this whole accreditation thing assumes me. When I went to university, they were things founded in the middle ages and no one doubted they had the authority to grant degrees, how times change.. I chose NW because it appears that the students who do the DL JD seem to be as good if not better than many ABA schools when it comes to the Bar exams. Maybe not as employable, but at least as well trained academically and for me now that's important. I suppose the last issue is why DL, well I'm curently based in Thailand, advising the Thai Government and without fluency in Thai (next to impossible...) the local universities are not an option.
But isn't Thailand beautiful? As you say, the language is indecipherable but it does have a lovely script. Your reasoning is very much like my own; the school IS a legitimate law school in that it makes lawyers on a routine basis so why not? Since you have a good LL.B., why not do their JSD program? Is it because theLL.M. is a well understood credential thoughout the world?
Leicester have just announced one. It's on page two of their DL brochure. Nothing on the departmental website as yet. http://www.le.ac.uk/law/dlu/files/dl_brochure2004.pdf Could be worth emailing both their DL admissions people [email protected] and their postgraduate secretary [email protected] for more details Angela
If you don't need a degree for professional reasons, if you don't want formal instruction and if accreditation means nothing to you, then why do you have a degree objective in the first place? If you are willing to consider more informal sorts of education that don't necessarily result in a degree, your options will probably expand.
I got all excited over the new Leicester program until I saw where it includes "short residential sessions' which, being in England, make the program undoable for me. Too bad; I thought it looked like the answer to my prayers (such as they are). BillDayson: Why, indeed? That's a damned good question. I still don't know why I am doing the LL.M. I don't need IT, either! I think, though, that I want something like the experience of tackling a genuine academic research and writing project with some guidance and oversight and, finally, critical evaluation. It's more a matter of personal and professional training than acquiring a credential. Of course, that's a serious rub; WILL I actually GET that experience in an unaccredited program? Will it be sufficiently rigorous? Well, I haven't committed to anything beyond London. We'll see what happens next.
I suspect that they'll be a bit more flexible with a PhD. After all, even on the LlMs, where the residential sessions are "strongly encouraged" they aren't compulsory. Admittedly, the thought of a week in Leicester each summer is a bit of a downer (lovely county, shame about the county town). Angela
Oh really? That does make one think. By the time I get to it, in three years or so, they ought to have the bugs worked out of it. I wonder what a PhD in law does. The teaching credential in the common law world outside the U.S. seems to be the LL.M. Here in the U.S., it's pretty much the J.D. alone. Still, I suppose the doctor has an "edge" over the competition...
The Leicester program could be interesting, and may be a logical extension after the LLM, which I think I'll pursue even if as mentioned it's only a means for peer review and evaluation of my thinking and ability to put this down on paper. I have emailed Leicester and hopefully should hear from them soon. I'll post anymore info if I have it. ¢ÍáÊ´§¤ÇÒÁ¹Ñº¶×ÍÍÂèÒ§ÊÙ§ (highest Regards...the limit of my written Thai!)
I like the fact that the Leicester people are calling their degree a Ph.D. instead of using one of the more traditional but arcane titles like LL.D. or J.S.D. In Canada, Osgoode decided to change the name of its dissertation degree from D.Jur. to Ph.D., rejecting J.S.D. in the process.
