My Personal Experience With An Unaccredited (Degree Mill) Degree

Under the topic "Theological Distance Education II," I shared my experience with an unaccredited degree. When Tom Nixon responded that my story might help others, I decided to share the story under a separate topic.

My academic journey began with two years of community college, which I transferred to a RA & AABC accredited Bible College, where one year of study was completed. A pastoral transition placed me in a location where it was impossible to finish the degree as planned. The full-time pastorate and a family as well provided limited options. At that time (1988) I was not familiar with distance learning, at least not legitimate DL. To my detriment, I enrolled in an unaccredited degree program (not that all unaccredited schools are degree mills, but this one was) and completed a Bachelor of Theology degree.

Fortunately, I was allowed to enroll in a master's program at a RA & ATS seminary (I have since learned that this is a rare thing unless one has an accredited degree). Because the Th.B. itself was unaccredited I was placed on academic probation. After one semester the probation was removed and I completed the degree with no problem (1989-92).

I then received admission into a Doctor of Ministry program at a different RA & ATS seminary based upon the RA/ATS masters. I completed the D.Min. in 1996.

The unaccredited Th.B., however, would not go away. It was like a large black stain on my CV, tucked away beneath the masters and doctorate, but it was there. Each time I used the CV, or listed the degrees, my hope was that no one would ask questions about the Th.B. It was humiliating to answer questions about a school (and degree) in which I was enrolled only three months.

After seeking the counsel of quite a few peers, seminary professors and friends, all but one said they would forget about the unaccredited Th.B. "Don't worry about it," they said, "You have a RA masters and doctorate." Ironically, each of them had a RA bachelors. Perhaps because I didn't want to spend the rest of my life defending, justifying and apologizing for an unaccredited degree, I decided to enroll in a RA university. Three years of undergrad work was accepted and I completed the final year (36 sem. hrs.), earning the RA BA in 1998. Yes, even after earning two RA & ATS graduate degrees.

For me, being in ministry, this was the ethical route to take. Perhaps this was a personal issue, but now all of my academic degrees are accredited. No one can question the legitimacy of my credentials. And I don't have to be concerned about a time bomb exploding. And I would most certainly do it again (except of course for the unaccredited Th.B.).

I am currently enrolled in a Ph.D. in theology (research degree) program at Potchefstroom University (www.puk.ac.za), in South Africa. PU is 130 years old, a solid residential institution which also offers DL programs, and meets GAAP criteria.

In the spirit of this forum, I hope my story will encourage all to pursue only legitimate degree programs and to avoid degree mills at all cost. Cheap degree routes and academic short cuts will only come back to haunt!!!

Blessings,
Russell

 

Russell thanks for your story. I would like to talk more to you about GST. I just enrolled in ABCS a tracs accredited school and have some uncertainties about it. I have received the prospectus from GST and have some questions about it.
thanks Robert

You could e mail me at [email protected]

 

Russell:

Thanks for sharing with us your story. Your experience with the degree mill Th.B. has probably been duplicated time and time again by well-meaning but relatively unsophisticated folks, and I realize how easy it is to become involved in something like that, being one of the relatively unsophisticated (although slightly more schooled these days)

Thanks again

Scott

 

So what we have is someone who gets an unaccredited degree and STILL gets where he's going! Hmmm.....

Seriously, this example supports two notions. First, an unaccredited degree can meet some people's needs. Second, one must be very sure it will meet one's present AND future needs. And even though there were respected people telling him to forget about it, Russell still felt the need to replace that unaccredited degree with an accredited one.

Did he reach his goals because of or in spite of the unaccredited bachelor's? It sounded from his story that he was admitted to the master's based upon the unaccredited bachelor's, but had to further qualify. Or, perhaps, they admitted him based upon all his other qualifications and didn't consider the unaccredited bachelor's at all? Russell?

Rich Douglas

 

Russell, I have profound admiration for your tenacity and integrity. Most people would not worry so much about such a credential, particularly one earned in good faith. You sir, are an inspiration to us all!

Mark

 

Russell,

Thank you for sharing this experience with us. Please don't take offense, but I'm having a problem with this. By having a RA master’s and doctorate, doesn't this place those RA institutions in question for accepting you in the first place? If your potential employers considered the unaccredited BA a bad thing, why didn't they question the RA universities for accepting you in the first place? How can your qualifications be diminished by having an unaccredited BA while you possess the RA MA and PhD?

It seems to me that if you could meet the requirements of the RA masters and doctorate degree programs, why does it matter that your BA was unaccredited? It's analogous to saying "Bob, you've demonstrated over the past number of years that you are a good Christian, a good father, a man of character, and all around good guy. But, you committed a sin 12 years ago and despite all those good things you’ve done since that sin, you are not acceptable. You are therefore not allowed into our group – go away, we don't want you".

Any thoughts?

Kind regards,

Bob

 

Three years of the Th.B. were RA, only the last 32 hours were completed at the unaccredited school, which made the degree itself unaccredited. The seminary at which I earned the master's is also affiliated with the denomination in which I am ordained, so I am sure that all of this was taken into consideration.

Russell

 

This sounds more like a diploma mill success story to me. Without the questionable bachelor's degree you would not have been in a position to earn a RA master's or doctorate.

By your own admission, the diploma mill was your best alternative at the time. (In 2001, of course, you would have many more options.) Certainly I wouldn't recommend this alternative, but all's well that ends well.

 

RA & ATS accredited schools have policies regarding admission of students, which are based on the accrediting agency's guidelines. As long as those guidelines are followed, I don't know that it brings them into question. I have read where, in some cases, a student would be admitted into a master's program with no undergrad degree at all. This of course is not a blanket policy, but exceptions have been made.

It was never an issue of my qualifications being diminished, or that my prospective employers viewed the unaccredited Th.B. as bad. I did not want to deal with a potential time bomb. Hypothetically, at some point in the future, someone could easily bring undue attention to the unaccredited degree, and to be frank, it would be embarrassing, at least for me. Perhaps it is my perfectionist personality, but I wanted all three degrees to be properly accredited.

Russell

 

I believe it is more along the line of reaching one's objective in spite of a bad academic decision early on.

For every story like my own, there are no doubt a thousand who have been negatively impacted by obtaining a questionable degree.
Time bombs explode every day bringing embarrassment, humiliation, loss of job, etc.
This is my reason for sharing the story!

Russell

 

I must admit I am not sure what the moral of the story is. If there is a lesson to be learned from your experience I can’t find it..

I see this as akin to saying 20 years ago I stole some money. I was able to get the records wiped clear and went on to be a productive and valuable citizen. I felt really bad about the money I stole all those years ago, so I went and paid it back. I think that would be the ethical and morally correct thing to do, but what is the lesson here? Don't steal because you may feel guilty later and feel personally compelled to pay it back? Don't do an unaccredited degree because you may not be as lucky as me?

I really do not mean to be antagonistic, and I am not coming down on you personally as I always appreciate the actions of those that are motivated by conviction and values. Still, I'm not sure I see the lesson in the testimonial. If it is simply commentary, then I guess I do get it.

 

Maybe some folks don't get the moral of this story, but I sure do. There is a "social weight" that goes with having non-RA degrees. Every time your degree is mentioned or discussed, you wonder if the other(s) will know that the degree is not RA. Often you get asked very pointed questions. This is not limited to job interviews, etc., but includes day-to-day conversations with peers and professional associates.

Russell, with two RA degrees, most likely didn't feel the full burden of the weight (only 1/4 of his BA was non-RA). It seems that most people in the non-RA boat have all of their education earned this way. It is obvious that he did feel the burden, even though he only had a small case of non-RA.

So the moral is this: If even part of your academic creditials is suspect, you will experience the burden.

Rich: Russell got to where he was going in spite of the non-RA BA. Plus it was due to his tenacity and willingness to take a step back and fix a problem.

Once you earn a creditial like a BA, it is with you for life. It is posted on your resume, CV, personal record files, asked by peers, associates and friends. Frankly, I'm surprised that some 'old-timers' in this forum don't understand this. It's a very clear, very real social dynmaic that - as Scott says - plays itself out over and over again in the lives of countless people.

Russell, I tip my hat to you for your willingness to share your story. You've done a service to those who are exploring their educational options. Nice job of not giving up and going back to fix a problem.

Barry Foster

 

Actually, it sounds like Russell was admitted DUE to his non-RA bachelor's, not in spite of it. As he said, he was admitted, but put on academic probation for awhile because his degree was from an unaccredited school. I doubt he would have been admitted without the degree. If true, his opportunity to earn his RA master's and doctorate was a direct result of having the "bad" bachelor's.

Hmmm....sounds like it was good and bad, a familiar theme I keep raising. The degree met his needs at the time, but he felt the need to replace it later on. But without it, he wouldn't have been able to achieve his higher education goals.

Oh, and let's not forget the part of the story where his mentors, all in all, told him not to worry about it. It was Russell himself who chose to replace the degree, not some external requirement or forces.

As I've said many times, this field is filled with complexities and subtleties that defy simple "good vs. bad" conclusions.

Rich Douglas

 

Hi Rich

While I believe your observations about the complexities of degrees and schools is 100%accurate, it would seem some inaccurate conclusions could result. Did Russell get admitted to Graduate School because of or inspite of this degree? Probably both. Would he have been better served by an RA degree? Unquestionably. Why should someone choose a substandard school when their are so many first tier schools? In the long term is there a substantial benefit to a first tier school? Again unquestionably. Thanks for your posts and ideas.



------------------
Best Regards,
Dave Hayden

 

Thank you Barry! You have succinctly stated my reason for retracing my academic steps and earning the RA BA.

I did not share the story to:

1. Encourage others to obtain an unaccredited degree and try to do what I did.
2. Heap praise upon myself for going back and earning the RA degree.
3. Speak disparingly of, or look down on, those with unaccredited degrees.

I shared the story for one reason: To DISCOURAGE others from making the same mistake I did. It is true that, for whatever reason, I was able to move forward with properly accredited credentials. However, I in no way intended this to be a "succuss story" for a degree mill degree. I do not perceive it as such.

Barry noted that there is somewhat of a "social weight," (I would call it a stigma) regarding unaccredited degrees. After earning the two RA grad degrees, I did not want to deal with the stigma for the rest of my life. This was a personal decision, and I would certainly make it again. It could be that the unaccredited degree would never have caused a problem, but just as easily, 3,6,10 years into the future, the bomb could have exploded. I chose to eliminate the bomb!

Russell

 

Thank you for sharing your own personal experience. I am assuming that if you had any intention of posting the name of the undergraduate institution, you would have already done so.

I understand your motivation. I remember a distance education professor from Liberty University who begins his taped lecture going through his credentials. His undergraduate degree is unaccredited and he feels compelled to explain this even though he is obviously a very credible scholar with accredited Masters and doctorate degrees. If I remember correctly he was admitted to the graduate program and probabtion and ended up graduating with High Honors as I believe he did from his other graduate program(s). So I guess as you said the issue can end up haunting you in one form or another. I do not know whether if I were you I would have expended the energy to go back and do another B.A. level program. However, you probably made a wise decision and one which was a good Christian witness if indeed you undergraduate was not merely unaccredited but a "mill".

 

originally posted by Rich Douglas:

Actually, it sounds like Russell was admitted DUE to his non-RA bachelor's, not in spite of it. As he said, he was
admitted, but put on academic probation for awhile because his degree was from an unaccredited school. I
doubt he would have been admitted without the degree. If true, his opportunity to earn his RA master's and
doctorate was a direct result of having the "bad" bachelor's.

Hmmm....sounds like it was good and bad, a familiar theme I keep raising. The degree met his needs at the
time, but he felt the need to replace it later on. But without it, he wouldn't have been able to achieve his higher
education goals.

Oh, and let's not forget the part of the story where his mentors, all in all, told him not to worry about it. It was
Russell himself who chose to replace the degree, not some external requirement or forces.

As I've said many times, this field is filled with complexities and subtleties that defy simple "good vs. bad"
conclusions.

Rich Douglas

We're really turning the facts on their head here. If the BA was RA, there would have been absolutely no problem with admission. Instead, he was on probation because of the non-RA BA. He squeaked in - which I'd anticipate was an exception not the rule for the school. We all know folks who have been admitted to MA programs without the BA. This doesn't mean that everyone off the street can get admitted.

If someone wants to shoot the dice and get lucky, they could take their chance with a non-RA BA/BS. I wonder about the odds though. For example, I've heard of many, many instances where the non-RA BA was the sole reason for denial of admitance.

Second, what do mentors' advice have to do with this? The professors and friends most likely were not admissions or HR personnel. Plus, they definetely didn't have to carry the social weight / stigma of a non-RA BA. Those who are currently earning non-RA degrees will soon experience this (in the US).

Third, re: the "good and bad" idea. I'm into complexity theory, so I agree that simple yes/no solutions are often exaggerated. However, there still needs to be clear standards and criteria. I would never say that a non-RA degree is worthless or that people can't learn in these programs. What I do say is that non-RA degrees have significant limitations. People need to understand those limitations before they roll the dice.

Still my worn-out, favorite question is: What would you rather have - a RA or non-RA degree? Keeping it in the "good/bad" "this/or that" category, causes people to consider the *fact* that this is a choice that will have implications for the rest of life. (Unless - like Russell and I - you go back and fix your mistake.) Decisions at this level either open or close future opportunities. Without doubt, the choice one makes re: RA / non-RA puts the individual on separate journeys.

I hope no one takes offense at this, but these are just my thoughts on the subject. As most know, I'm pretty hard core when it comes to the RA/non-RA question (US readers).

Again, thanks Russell for helping others to see the personal side of the issue. I get your message loud and clear. I hope people making educational decisions right now get it too.

The bottom line is to make an informed choice. Education is an investment. You get what you pay for and how much sweat you put into it. Shortcuts introduce risk into your investment. Sorry, but it's just the way it is.

Barry Foster

 

Russell posted a great story and it is wonderful that he did not let his non-RA credential hold him back. He was able to pursue RA graduate degrees and is willing to redo his BA.

As for the acceptance of the non-RA degree for graduate school this is something that is up to the graduate departments and colleges at institutions throughout the country. Th RA school was willing to give Russell a chance. I am not an expert on religious schools but I also see that there are a lot of unaccredited religious schools and am assuming that it was this type of school Russel earned his BA from. It may just simply be that in this field (religion) the RA programs, or at least the one Russell chose, may be a bit more liberal in their acceptance policy. It would be interesting to see how many non-RA degrees are accepted by graduate departments by field of study. What Russel did not tell us was how many programs he applied to; if more than one, was he not accepted by some; and was his graduate alma mater his first choice and if not why?

John

 

If the BA was RA, there would have been absolutely no problem with admission. Instead, he was on probation because of the non-RA BA. He squeaked in - which I'd anticipate was an exception not the rule for the school. We all know folks who have been admitted to MA programs without the BA. This doesn't mean that everyone off the street can get admitted.

Second, what do mentors' advice have to do with this? The professors and friends most likely were not admissions or HR personnel. Plus, they definetely didn't have to carry the social weight / stigma of a non-RA BA. Those who are currently earning non-RA degrees will soon experience this (in the US).

Again, thanks Russell for helping others to see the personal side of the issue. I get your message loud and clear. I hope people making educational decisions right now get it too. Barry Foster[/B][/QUOTE]

Again, Barry has adequately stated the case!
I was allowed admission to the school, but placed on academic probation because the Th.B. was unaccredited. This was certainly the exception, and not the rule. Every single student I knew had a RA bachelor's.

Second, the advice of mentors in regard to forgetting about the unaccredited degree, was from men who did indeed have the RA bachelor's. They were neither admissions nor HR personnel, nor did they have to personally deal with the stigma. And my hunch is that if I had been given a faculty position alongside them, they would have taken a different view.

In the long term, one is simply going to be better off by remaining with proper accreditation: RA, GAAP, etc.

Russell

 

Again, Barry has adequately stated the case!
I was allowed admission to the school, but placed on academic probation because the Th.B. was unaccredited. This was certainly the exception, and not the rule. Every single student I knew had a RA bachelor's.

Second, the advice of mentors in regard to forgetting about the unaccredited degree, was from men who did indeed have the RA bachelor's. They were neither admissions nor HR personnel, nor did they have to personally deal with the stigma. And my hunch is that if I had been given a faculty position alongside them, they would have taken a different view.

In the long term, one is simply going to be better off by remaining with proper accreditation: RA, GAAP, etc.

Russell[/B][/QUOTE]


Dear all,

Greetings!

Aren't we forgetting something? At least, that is what I believe. The original poster graduated from an "accredited" junior college, and then he transfered to the "unacredited" senior college. Since he only needed one year to complete his bachelor's, I guess he was allowed to transfered in 90 credits from his junior college (this is possible to do with some institutions). Conclusively, I can say that his bachelor's was not completely "unacredited". If he took the remainig 30 credits at his senior college to complete the 120 generally required, then his bachelor's was "75% accredited" and "25% unacredited". Otherwise, am I missing something here?

Of course, I congratulate the poster for having come back to finish an acredited bachelor. However, if I am right, he just needs to be 25% happier.

Respectfully,


Karlos Alberto "El Caballero" Lacaye
[email protected]