Question (Unaccredited Bible Schools)

I have read with great interest the discussions about the unaccredited Bible schools. I am particularly interested in knowing how it is possible for people to take such degrees seriously. Take for example, Andersonville Baptist Seminary, Lake Charles Bible College, and there are a host of others that spring up from time to time. Andersonville offers a degree from Bachelors to Doctorate for around $700 for each individual program respectively. Lake Charles Bible College offers a Bachelors, Master of Divinity, and Doctor of Ministry for ($250 for Bachelors, Masters/Doctorate $400 each program). How can such degrees be taken seriously? I had a discussion with someone who did graduate from Lake Charles and felt as though this degree was well earned. In fact, if you look at the testimonies page http://www.lakecharlesbiblecollege.com you will see that there are some pastors from the Assembly of God that have earned there degrees from this school. From what I have been told, a Master of Divinity requires at least 90 hours and then you also have to know Greek/Hebrew. The Doctor of Ministry degree requires at least a minimum of a Master of Divinity, and then almost 10 years of pastor experience. These are the requirements for any regular legitimate program. However, Lake Charles Bible College, asks you to complete 4 lessons, and then once that is completed, presto you have earned your degree. Is it really legal for people to use a degree from this school and call themselves “Doctor?” It would seem that anybody with an IQ above room temperature would investigate this and come to the conclusion that it is not worth the paper it is written on. Now, in terms of Andersonville, they do require work. However, they as well as schools like Louisiana Baptist University do not require much research work. I would not put these two schools in the same category as Lake Charles, but it would seem to me that people who want to earn a legitimate degree would pursue a degree that is ATS (Association of Theological Schools) or regionally accredited. I would like to know what your thoughts are on all of this. Thanks.

 

The worst sort of scam...

These are the worst of the worst of the scams - handing out fraudulent degrees behind the veil of religion, as if God would actually be approving of this type of horses***....

 

It's Andersonville Theological Seminary. The school dropped the "Baptist" part of its official name several year's ago.

 

Thank you for the correction

I am sorry. It is Andersonville Theological Seminary. I did forget to make that correction, and for that I do apologize. However, I can tell from the information of there literature that they are still "dictinctively Baptist." I think that we should get some views about this. The 1st reply, makes a good point that being religious, this is taking advantage of the very essence of religion. Whatever, your own personal beliefs, it would seem that most of us would agree that this is a fony degree. These people are taking advantage of religion, and trying to pass off that this is all legitimate. In the mean time, you have others workeing very hard to try and get a good education. They have to do Greek/Hewbrew, and have much research in order to obtain a legitimate degree. How can it be possible for someone to claim to be a "doctor" when they have not had to go through the higher standards that someone else has to go through? Some will argue that you should not have to pay much to get a degree in religion. However, you get what you pay for in life. If people think that they can legitimately say that they have earned a degree from one of these institutions, then they have to be crazy. It is not worth the piece of paper it is written on. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this further with people who think differently. So, feel free to base your opinion, and hopefully, this can be a worthwhile discussion -- but hopefully, not in the name of religion!!!!

 

I cannot understand or explain it! I know that I really personally fall very short in my perception of what my God expects of me. I know I fail in so very many ways.

But when Christian institutions offer graduate academic programs , in the areas of the understanding of or in the ministry of their beliefs, which programs have no significant entry requirements, are taught by unqualified professors, and have curricula with little correspondence to what is required in accredited schools , I can only suppose that vanity is the cause and deceit is the means.

While these two conditions, vanity and deceit, are something I myself struggle with too, the point is I am struggling against them. I am not using vanity and deceit to hand out degrees.

 

Whether it's valid or not, Andersonville is a "KJV only" school and I do know that many such schools feel the KJV is an accurate translation of the Scriptures so Greek and/ or Hebrew are unnecessary.

Also, Andersonville does have faculty who have graduated with graduate and postgraduate degrees from Liberty, NOBTS, Ashland, Andover, Calvary, CTS, LRS, Concordia, etc.

Mrs. Jimmy Hayes is head of the counseling department and she has an M.A. in Counseling from Liberty. Her husband, President Jimmy Hayes, also has an M.A. in counseling from Liberty.

Mill? I think calling any school a mill is relative. Compared to Lake Charles, ATS is not a mill.

ATS does have a solid counseling program.

 

Bill,

I cannot answer all your questions.

The catalog I have does not name the areas of specialty of each faculty member; however, there are PhD's, DMin's and ThD's from the schools I named in my other thread.

This is about all I can tell you from the catalog I have.

There does seem to be a substantial amount of work, especially in the counseling program, however.

I cannot attest to the quality of the other programs as pastoral/Christian counseling are my areas of interest and specialty.

I think I will request a current catalog from them. The one I have (n.d.) is a year or two old.

 

Most interesting.

Dr Clifton says that Andersonville claims faculty from a series of reputable schools, according to ATS' catalogue, but fails to list their specializations.

Doktorand Grover says ATS uses tapes from the ITS company as its "courses".

Taking a cue from someone else's observation about another school, one has to wonder:

What is it exactly that the ATS faculty do? Perhaps they are not so much hired guns but hired names.

That the names appear only in the print catalogue and not on the website lends credence to this notion; the ratio of actual suckers/customers to mere inquirers will be much higher among holders of the actual print catalogue, and the risk of encountering mere investigators somewhat less, so that claims and tendentious collocations designed to deceive could be made with relatively greater impunity.

(Dothanites take note: this sentence illustrates the proper use of the word "credence".)

 

Reply

Very interesting. Andersonville Theological Seminary and Louisiana Baptist University, we could probably be safe in saying that these are not diploma mills. However, they lack the necessary regional or national accreditation. Therefore, people that graduate from these schools are going to have a hard time of these degrees being accepted in academia and professional circles. There is the issue of Lake Charles Bible College. They require 4 lessons for a Masters of Divinity and also for the Doctor of Ministry degree. Most legit schools require a whole bunch of subjects including Greek/Hebrew. Makes you wonder what planet they are living on there at Lake Charles. Is it really legal for people to use these degrees and call themselves "Doctor?" It would seem to me that people with average intelligence would know the difference. The website for the school is http://www.lakecharlesbiblecollege.com. Take a look at it yourself. It seems to me that there is too many of these kind of schools, taking advantage of religion.

With regard to the faculty at Andersonville. Some may have earned there degrees from Liberty. However, this does not make them proficient in the respected area that they are teacher. I wonder how effective the tapes are. Perhaps, they are really good.... wow that was scary!!!

 

Re: Reply

Not just Liberty but, as I posted earlier, from NOBTS, Ashland, Andover, Calvary, CTS, LRS, Concordia, etc.

Remember too, that most who attend these types of unaccredited seminaries, especially those that are baptistic in theology, do so for one purpose and one purpose only, to pastor 'KJV-only" churches.

Most of these churches are independent Baptist.

Many of these schools so state they exist soley to train pastors and missionaries. There is a place for them, there is a purpose for them, and there is a student body for them.

The Christian witness and the character of those involved in these schools should never be questioned. Only God knows their hearts and He alone is the final judge.

God's justice will prevail.

Does this mean there are no scam artists? Of course not. But good, honest men and women of faith do own, manage, and administer some of these schools.

They should not have their character assassinated any more than SACS-accredited colleges' staff just because of a recent scandal in a SACS-accredited school.

 

reply

So, are you saying that people who graduate from Andersonville Theological Seminary, are just as good as those that graduate from regionally accredited schools? Your justification seems to be that it is a "KJV" school. KJV = King James Verion (1611). I don't see how you can justify that. You offer no clear cut arguments to support that an education from Andersonville, is credible? Also, what is your opinion of Lake Charles Bible College. Why don't you tell us your feeling about this school? What are your feelings about Louisiana Baptist University? I take it that you have done some course work at Andersonville, or is it just because they list that they are "KJV?" My point in all of this is how can someone call themselves "Doctor" and is it legal to do so with such a degree from Lake Charles Bible College? No, I don't place Andersonville and Louisiana Baptist under the same umbrella as that of Lake Charles Bible College. However, why wouldn't you want to get an accredited degree? And, since Andersonville does not require Hebrew/Greek -- What is the difference between a degree from Andersonville and Lake Charles? The only difference I see is the time frame. Otherwise, a both degrees would be worthless in my opinion. Please support your position and let me know why you think Andersonville is so great -- but please... besides "KJV!!!"

 

Re: Re: Reply

 

Re: reply

With a handle like "philosophy" you should know not to put words in other's mouths.

I implied nothing you inferred. Why do you want to argue?

All I am saying, and this will be my final comment regarding this thread, is that Andersonville fills a need for some.

If you want to know why one chooses Andersonville, find a graduate and ask, but, "philosophy," don't assume!

 

Dear Philosophy: Thank you for your intelligent posts.

Nothing you or Bill or I have said remotely resembles "character assassination." This is a common--oh, so common--rhetorical trick: grossly mischaracterize what someone has said (usually about someone else), interpret it as an attack on oneself (were we talking about Barton Stone Seminary or the evanescent St Paul Seminary or a couple of imaginary defunct denominations?), claim the moral high ground, and then magnanimously refuse to "fight" (that is, defend one's wild recharacterizations of what other posters have said).

Andersonville seems to be so substandard it is an outright joke. Their accreditor is non-real. Their faculty are either unnamed or unassigned--so what do they actually DO, if anything? Counseling degrees apparently entitle people to teach theology and tell them how to run a seminary. Amazing. Now I must tell you that I think KJV Onlyism is sorta surreal, just like certain other squirrelly notions of scriptural provenance. But, no, KJV Onlyism hardly serves as an excuse for institutional flummery, even if other squirrelities have so served other ecclesiastical surrealists.

About Lake Charles I know nothing, but your judgment seems sound.

Whatever is right or wrong with LBU, it is a cut above Andersonville or Lake Charles, and appears to operate with institutional integrity, whatever its academic level. ACCS might possibly be a closer point of comparison.

The basic problem, Philosophy, is that if your track record or mine included many affiliations with substandard schools, whether as student or promoter, we might fall victim to the rather silly illusion that by making one lousy school look better we would make our own lousy schools--and our own dubious track record--also look better. It's a particularly circuitous form of special pleading.

Your sense of moral integrity--ability to detect horse****, as my friend Mr Reginstein put it--is standing you in very good stead. Keep up the good work; it helps us all.

 

Thanks

Uncle.... Thanks for the kind support.

It seems that most of these people that are associated with these unaccredited schools... don't want to make any factual support. They call it "argue." The point in any philosophical discussion... oh no.. the word "philosophy" is like a bad word to those certain religious people who don't see the value of "the love of wisdom."

Everyone has the right to their opinion. However, when they can't support their position... then it is really shallow. Perhaps, they could read the book "Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. This might allow them to find out what reason means. There was no assume. That is what some might say, but I say, if you have a good argument (position) then defend it. It is what makes you gain respect from others. Cogito Ergo Sum. I think, therefore I am. - Rene Descartes. This will not hopefully be my last post... maybe on here... but not for the defense of what is right and good.

 

Does anyone know of a KJV-Only school that is accredited?

BLD

 

The BMA Seminary in Jacksonville, Texas is SACS/ATS accredited. It is King James-Mostly (?!), expressing a strong preference for the KJV while acknowledging that a few modern versions may be used "with confidence". There is a lengthy and thoughtful faculty statement on Bible versions accessible on the seminary's website.

bmats.edu/

 

As a Jew, I am always fascinated by the idea that one can become an expert in the Hebrew bible without being able to read biblical Hebrew.