Univ of Sarasota vs Argosy Univ

One of the schools I've been looking into for an accredited doctorate in business is the University of Sarasota. It seems like a good choice based on a number of my criteria. I read that it will soon become Argosy University by way of mergers with three or more of the other Argosy schools (some not accredited).

Does anyone have an opinion on how this will affect the quality of the program or credibility of the program? Any thoughts on the U of S program in general?

Thanks.

 

Sarasota was one of the pioneers of distance education in the U.S. during the 1970s. You should expect to receive a quality eductional experience and a very usable credential. I wouldn't expect that to change under Argosy.

One concern in the move under Argosy is the transition from a not-for-profit, independent school to one that is networked with a for-profit company. Some might find that less than desireable. I've maintained that the tax status of an organization is irrelevant to the delivery of its product. Not-for-profit schools have to be as diligent in their marketing, product design, product delivery, etc., as do for-profit schools. The idea that a not-for-profit school is somehow less prone to corner-cutting than a for-profit school is misguided. They both have to manage costs, maintain/increase revenues, and control quality.

Of course, all the above is moot if (a) Argosy isn't for-profit and (b) Sarasota isn't not-for-profit. I'm assuming these to be true, but I haven't checked it out.

Rich Douglas

 

Regarding profit vs. nonprofit, Rich writes, The idea that a not-for-profit school is somehow less prone to corner-cutting than a for-profit school is misguided. They both have to manage costs, maintain/increase revenues, and control quality.

I agree with that -- but it is also the case that the profit-making schools are more likely to be subject to the corporate approach that can say, for instance, "Our potato salad division is doing great, but our business school division is losing money; close it down."

From the time Macmillan Publishing pulled the plug suddenly on LaSalle Extension University 20-odd years ago, to the sudden closure of Masters Institute a month or two ago, these things have happened.

So there is a very small added risk -- bearing in mind that lots of non-profits close down as well -- ten to twenty every year, although I believe those are more likely to make arrangements for a transfer option.

John Bear

 

The University of Sarasota is proprietary (for-profit), and has been for several years. As most folks here know, I take a hard line against proprietary degree-granting schools, but freely admit that it is an ethical principle more than anything else. In fact, U. Sarasota is one of the very few proprietary schools I have recommended, as their programs are well designed, quite comprehensive, and have a residential component.

As for the name change, there has been quite a bit of student objections to the Argosy moniker. I get the impression, however, that this is primarily from an aesthetic perspective.

John Bear is quite correct: Both profit-making and non-profit schools have been known to go out of business, but my take is that teh proprietary schools will be the ones to use more of a bottom-line approach. Call me a moralist (all together now), but I avoid them. Keep in mind, however, that any school that has achieved regional accreditation (Sarasota/Argosy is accredited by SACS) has demonstrated among other things, that it has the financial resources to cerry out its mission. Therefore, I would not anticipate them going under or doing a fly-by-night (as did the Masters Institute and the Computer Learning Centers), but life is a crap-shoot (regardless of profit or non-profit status), so you should carefully check out any school you consider.

 

I figured you'd know, Steve. And I'm quite familiar with your stance against most proprietary schools. While I acknowledge the possibility that for-profit schools might be inclined to more quickly make a "bottom line" decision, not-for-profit schools are faced with the exact same situations. Are not-for-profits more altruistic and less likely to can a non-profitable part of their operation? I suspect there might be so much variance among the schools as to render the catagorical distinctions useless.

I think a much more valuable indicator is a school's performance history. Sarasota has been at this for a long time. Also, one can look at how the school is funded (Capella) or affiliated (Touro Int'l.). It's when you have very little of any that you'd better start checking really carefully. Sound familiar?

Rich Douglas, who doesn't have a speaking role in the one-man play.

 

All Argosy schools will be accredited by NCA.

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Jonathan Liu
http://www.geocities.com/liu_jonathan/distance.html

 

Just a general observation that is totally my opinion...Argosy University is perhaps the worst name I've ever heard for an institution of higher learning. Argosy sounds like a skin disease.

I will say that I've heard many positive things about U of Sarasota, and I wouldn't expect the quality of instruction to change simply because they choose an incredibly bad new name.

Bruce

 

I had seen this before, and I may be way off base here, but does this statement seem a little presumptious?

Ted

 

This information comes from Argosy's website. http://www.argosyeducation.com/AU_files/frame.htm

 

That is where I first saw it too, but a part of the same site says that "This plan is pursuant to several approvals by state and accreditation agencies. " Yet another part says that one of the schools is "Accredited by the Accrediting Bureau of Health Education Schools (ABHES)." and doesn't indicate that that school is RA.

Unless they have all these approvals already in hand, I just think it is a bit presumptious to make the statement that all campus' will be NCA accredited.

It would be nice if it worked out. It is always good to have additional options.

Ted

 

Well. I think that's why Argosy Education uses "will" in this statement. It is not a "done deal" yet. We will see how long does it take to bring all argosy schools under a single university structure.

 

Well, I guess my next concern regards their current accreditation. Suppose they go through with the mergers, and for some reason NCA doesn't come through with accreditation. Will the grad school side of the new Argosy University still carry the SAC accreditation currently held by Univ of Sarasota? Should I have any concerns here?

 

I think that there are good and bad points to (almost) everything, including proprietary schools.

It has been mentioned that if an educational division of a for-profit corporation is losing money, the plug might be pulled. But the same thing is true of private non-profits. If they consistantly lose money, can't turn it around and burn through their often meagre endowments, they shut down too. That's threatening many of America's lesser known small liberal arts colleges. Some of them die every year.

Nobody can lose money with impunity, except governments.

One strong point about proprietary schools is that they often have more interest in serving their customers (the students) than do the non-profits which are sometimes little sealed empires run by their faculty. On the good side, that means lots of flexibility regarding course delivery, and lots of programs offered in high demand subjects that students want to study. But on the other hand, students (let's face it) want quick and easy degrees. The proprietary schools may be more willing to cut academic corners to give the students what they want. (The degree mills are just the ultimate expression of that dynamic.)

Non-profits are more apt to provide degrees in subjects with lasting cultural value but with little short-term economic utility, like art history. They are more apt to reflect the standards that faculty find appropriate, not students. But on the other hand, by insulating faculty from real-world imperatives, you often find the non-profits losing touch and promoting faddish and often politicized academic conceits, particularly in their humanities departments.

 

Rick,

I'm currently doing my DBA at the California campus. I am extremely pleased with most aspects of the program. Sure, there are a couple negatives, but overall, I'm quite pleased.

As for the consolidations coming along, I can fully understand the operations reasons for this move. The Ca. campus is empty during the day and sees sporadic periods of activity. By adding the school of psychology to the campus, there can be better use of resources.

That said, I think the name, Argosy, is stupid, stupid, stupid. In other words, stupid. While I support the consolidation activity, I shudder to think the marketing genius that came up with using the corporate name for the school might be teaching marketing classes.

The flipside to having a stupid name is that it may just stick out. Thunderbird is another weird name, but the school does have a biz school that many consider good. Also, my original attempt at university was at the Illinois Institue of Technology- formerly known as Armour Institute (you know- the canned meat folks). This just shows that come changes can actually be good.

At the time of the name change announcement, I seriously looked at changing schools. I only had a few courses under my belt, and while it would have been a pin in the neck and wallet to repeat a few courses, I had relatively little time invested at that point. I had the luxury to consider alternatives.

I sat back and considered why I chose USar. Based on my original criteria, it was still the best choice for me. Next, I considered my cohorts and the profs I've had up to that point. Again, all positive. Next, I considered the fact that, unlike my BS and MBA, I wanted something a bit more personable for my doctorate. In every aspect, I feel part of a unique group of folks at the CA campus. So, I decided to stay (and the fact my diploma will say University of Sarasota, not Argosy).

There is a risk, though. We already received a 10% tuition increase (grrrr), and an increase in the minimum number of students needed to hold a class. What I have not seen is a reduction in the quality of instruction. So, for now, I am still positive.

Russ

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Did they offer the option above to all of their current students?


Tom Nixon

 

Tom,

They did offer the option to current students. There is a cut off time for admissions when students will no longer get the choice. I believe it's in September.

The main problem (besides the fact it's a darned silly foolish yucky horrid name) is what happens 10 years or 20 years from now (should I be so lucky to be around)? Using "University of Sarasota" on resumes, etc., then when folks get transcripts they say Argosy. The questions that will come next could be, "Is this part of the men's magazine or the casinos?"

Did I mention I think the name is dumb?

------------------
==========================================
Humans are the only animals that protect
their stupid from the forces of evolution.

<A HREF="http://www.blahetka.com
===================================" TARGET=_blank>http://www.blahetka.com
===================================</A>